Early build engines to late build cars
 

What is anyone's thought about early build engines to late build Impalas from Janesville. My 1st week of July build SS427 has an engine that was built the 9th of November

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

8 months? I think that's gonna raise an eyebrow or two along the way.

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

Is it an L72? The 385 hp engines were quite common so that would indeed be an oddity while the L72's were much rarer and done in fewer batches. I have seen LS6 engines built well before the car's build date so you never know. 8 months is quite a stretch however.

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

Who knows with an engine option that wasn't in high demand. If the casting date and build date are in line, the engine could have taken months to be used in Impala inventory. They may have wanted to clear out the L72 inventory for that model year and used it in a car. I wouldn't discount it completely.

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

I just bought an L72 from a 2nd week of Feb. Janesville SS427. The casting date is K 14 7 and the assembly date is 12 01.

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

Isn't July to November more like 5 months??

From conversations I've had with GM employees, they didn't necessarily rotate stock in the factories. Pallets of engines could've easily sat while new ones came in and got stacked up in front. 1 or a few could've gotten trapped in a corner.

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

Our 68 SS427 from Janesville was built 4th week of July and the engine was assembled January 11th so that did happen.

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

Rick this is my L36 1968 SS427 car 385 horsepower car

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mssl72</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't July to November more like 5 months?? </div></div>

It's actually 4 months, but we are talking about November 9 1967 to 1st week of July 1968, and that's darn close to 8 months.

But as per Warren's example above, which is over 6 months, it would appear to be possible.

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

Yes kind of odd but the engine is original to the car and I know the history of the car from day one my father in law was the 1st owner,I am number 4 but know all the past owners

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Geneo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes kind of odd but the engine is original to the car and I know the history of the car from day one my father in law was the 1st owner,I am number 4 but know all the past owners </div></div>

Cool...then you have proof that stuff like this, while not the norm, does happen occasionally. Warren's example is another one.

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

Got it Bill, thanks. I was flipped around. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Pritchard</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Geneo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes kind of odd but the engine is original to the car and I know the history of the car from day one my father in law was the 1st owner,I am number 4 but know all the past owners </div></div>

Cool...then you have proof that stuff like this, while not the norm, does happen occasionally. Warren's example is another one. </div></div>

I can add two more examples from my data which includes two 409s that were assembled 6 months prior to the car assembly. Very odd, but it did happen.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/flag.gif[/img]

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

Happens frequently - particularly with Winter engine builds. My L72 - with POP built 05E with a T0128MN engine. Tonawanda is in Western NY - inventory was first in last out!

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

I know the complete history of my car the engine matches the vin it all matches

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Happens frequently - particularly with Winter engine builds. My L72 - with POP built 05E with a T0128MN engine. Tonawanda is in Western NY - inventory was first in last out! </div></div>

It all depended on how the pallets were stacked, how fast certain assemblies were needed on the line and when the next batch of pallets arrived and got piled on top of the older ones.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

Also there was a somewhat rare chance (hopefully) that completed assemblies were held for quality clearance due to issues with components and/or process.

Paul

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

my take on this Pallet and use as needed topic is;
higher volume stuff and more common cars received engines and trans relativity close to build status
Lesser volume cars were more sporadic and low volume cars are randomly picked from inventory...
Special order or extremely low production stuff may have been real close in build dates assuming all or most components were on hand or in close proximity.
Exceptions rule and one offs are at best damn close
My assumptions are based on many cars I've worked with on, worked with, parted out or did motor swaps, and cherry picking better engines for replacement or upgrade.
There was a time we had every Chilton book or Motors Manual and Checked every engine #'s on stuff we touched.

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

I agree.

Here are some of the Manufacturing and scheduling issues that could cause date abnormalities with drivetrain components at Norwood.

A QA/QC hold at blocks at the foundry, or at the Mfg plant. (Flint MI or Tonawanda NY)

Scheduling or logistical problems with the rail road and inclement weather (snow storm -floods-mechanical rail problems)

Railroad strikes, teamster strikes

Strikes at the foundry or the Mfg plant

Problems with Logistics and Application 35 lead time build scheduling. Errors here were miss counts and just Having enough workers to get the rail and trucks loaded and then unloaded timely and in the build system to meet the established production schedule. No bar code scanners yet it was a manual count.

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree.

Here are some of the Manufacturing and scheduling issues that could cause date abnormalities with drivetrain components at Norwood.

A QA/QC hold at blocks at the foundry, or at the Mfg plant. (Flint MI or Tonawanda NY)

Scheduling or logistical problems with the rail road and inclement weather (snow storm -floods-mechanical rail problems)

Railroad strikes, teamster strikes

Strikes at the foundry or the Mfg plant

Problems with Logistics and Application 35 lead time build scheduling. Errors here were miss counts and just Having enough workers to get the rail and trucks loaded and then unloaded timely and in the build system to meet the established production schedule. No bar code scanners yet it was a manual count. </div></div>

Phil,
Most of those scenarios you mention would result in an engine arriving late and holding up the scheduling of the car, rather than arriving earlier and sitting around for months before being installed in a chassis. As you know, a sequence number wasn't assigned until the inventories were checked and indicated that all the parts needed were at the plant.
Of course, by &quot;QC hold&quot; you may be referring to an engine failure at test run, requiring a rebuild and a delay which would result in an engine with an assembly date much earlier than the car assembly.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Verne_Frantz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree.

Here are some of the Manufacturing and scheduling issues that could cause date abnormalities with drivetrain components at Norwood.

A QA/QC hold at blocks at the foundry, or at the Mfg plant. (Flint MI or Tonawanda NY)

Scheduling or logistical problems with the rail road and inclement weather (snow storm -floods-mechanical rail problems)

Railroad strikes, teamster strikes

Strikes at the foundry or the Mfg plant

Problems with Logistics and Application 35 lead time build scheduling. Errors here were miss counts and just Having enough workers to get the rail and trucks loaded and then unloaded timely and in the build system to meet the established production schedule. No bar code scanners yet it was a manual count. </div></div>

Phil,
Most of those scenarios you mention would result in an engine arriving late and holding up the scheduling of the car, rather than arriving earlier and sitting around for months before being installed in a chassis. As you know, a sequence number wasn't assigned until the inventories were checked and indicated that all the parts needed were at the plant.
Of course, by &quot;QC hold&quot; you may be referring to an engine failure at test run, requiring a rebuild and a delay which would result in an engine with an assembly date much earlier than the car assembly.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
</div></div>

Verne,

If a block is held due to an issue with AQL that could be at foundry, or an issue with any number of suppliers including TRW. GM did not like scrapping anything and even had a salvage department in plant to recover and reuse damaged parts. These would be engines with a casting date or in some cases an assembly date that would be vastly earlier than the car that they ended up in.

No I do not know about &quot;sequence numbers assigned until the inventories were checked and indicated that all the parts needed were at the plant&quot;.

Let me explain...If things were running on time and there were no labor stoppages ongoing a block could be cast and assembled early in the week and make it to the plant at the end of the week where it was unloaded and sent to the line the same day it arrived.

This was what &quot;Application 35&quot; controlled. At Norwood the specific parts for an individual car were not even in plant at the time the key card was punched and the ramp up parts arrival timing was evaluated at the joint Fisher/Chevrolet production scheduling meeting which occurred 72 hours prior to the build out day. In this meeting the all production was reliant on the Application 35 production forecast for inbound materials. Even at this time it is very likely that the many of the individual parts for a car are still not in plant yet and this is 72 hours out from the build day. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Early build engines to late build cars
 

I should have said &quot;presumed&quot; to be in inventory by the time the build was scheduled. I understand the process. I'm sorry if my statement was misleading.

Verne [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]