A Newer Project!
 

Well, as you may have noticed from my want ad, me and my son were looking for a modern project car: a 1998 to 2002 Trans Am WS6 (because he likes how the hood scoops look - hey, he's 13 he doesn't need a real reason).

We found one today and picked it up.

Amazing to say the least - After searching through weeks of Craigslist and ebay ads I narrowed it down to half a dozen cars. It was really difficult to find an unaltered original car in the Northeast, all the stock ones seemed to be out west.

The <span style="text-decoration: underline">really</span> weird thing was that there seemed to be two specific types of people that were selling these.

1) Young men who's wives just told them they were having a baby, and that they needed a larger car.
2) Older women who were the original owners of the cars.

It was three of each situation. Very strange to say the least.

Well, I found a car listed on Craigslist here in NJ that belonged to the latter group. She was an older woman (a former over-the-road truck driver) who bought the car new in 2001. Wonderful lady to say the least. The ad had no pictures and very limited description. So, after a few days of texting and photos being sent, me and the boy went down to Southern Jersey and picked it up today.

The lady was fanatical about maintenance. She has over an inch thick stack of invoices for oil changes every four months. Sadly it seems that the GM dealers were taking advantage of her and doing every crazy fluid flush and cleanse just about every time the car showed up in there service lane. They would perform the $169 &quot;6,000 mile service&quot; every 2,000 miles. The car only has 61,000 miles on it.

The absolutely amazing thing is that she bought three extended warranties over the past 13 years! The car's mechanicals are still covered until late 2016! In fact the GM dealer just rebuilt the noisy rear differential in late 2013 and she only paid a $50 deductible for a $2,200 repair.

So here are some photos:

The window sticker: Bought from Triboro Pontiac in Cinaminson, NJ. Came with the optional Hurst Shifter for the 6-speed, and the rare traction control option.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...dowsticker.jpg

Here's the pile of paperwork, and the inch thick stack of invoices from March 2001 to a early 2014. She paid full sticker for the car when new, plus the GM Mastercare extended warranty plus another aftermarket 60 month warranty when the GM one was about to expire in 2011.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t.../paperwork.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...001/papers.jpg

And the door tag with the WS6 Ram Air option prominently listed:

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/doortag1.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

The owner was such a fun person to deal with. I had to talk her into letting me test drive it after she drove us around the block. It seems that no one had ever driven her car but here. Even her husband who was standing there nodded his head in agreement. She never let him drive it (he doesn't know how to drive a stick shift anyway). So after I passed the interview she let me test drive it with her in the passenger seat and my son in the back.

The car just purred and tracked and stopped perfectly straight. Ran like it should. (And after perusing the stack of receipts I saw that she would get the car aligned every six months and the wheels rebalanced at the same time.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...01/frontrt.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...01/frontlt.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...001/rearrt.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/rearleft.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...2001/front.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

The reason she was selling the car was that she and her husband moved to a large property out in the country on the end of a long dirt and gravel road and she hadn't driven the car in months because she hated seeing it get dirty. The car had never been driven in snow and very rarely in rain.

Here's the ebony leather interior. The seats are very nice but the car does need a new carpet set because she was a former smoker and the carpet has really absorbed that tobacco smell. There is a cracked outer plastic molding on the driver's seat where the power adjustment switches are.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t.../interior1.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...teriorleft.jpg

And the obligatory cracked door panel that these cars are renowned for. She didn't realize that this could have been covered under the GM warranties had she only asked at the time they were in effect.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...panelcrack.jpg

The passenger door panel is perfect:

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...tdoorpanel.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

The engine compartment. All the factory ram air components are intact. Most original purchasers tossed those air cleaner box resonators the first day they had the car. Original drivetrain of course. Even the original clutch, too. As an over-the-road trucker she knew how to shift and transmission properly. That tranny doesn't make a sound! All the synchros are still intact.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...engineleft.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t.../eniginert.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

And now the bad parts:

Like 90% of the 1998 to 2002 F-bodies, there is a factory defect that was covered under a Technical Service Bulletin (03-08-98-001 Feb 2003) but not a recall. If you didn't push the issue with your dealer back in the day, they didn't voluntarily fix it. - And it was an expensive job - around $1,500 to $2,000. Had she known that it was something she would have gotten repaired under warranty, she would have definitely done it. You'da thought that since the dealer was charging her for every new fluid flush and refill process under the sun, they could have at least offered to do the roof repair at the same time since she was at the dealership every six to eight weeks for 13 years.

The assembly line used an inferior adhesive to bond the sail panel/roof panel to the steel roof frame of the car, starting in late 1998. It was too chemically aggressive/reactive for the plastic roof panel material. After several years the adhesive wicks its way through the molded plastic roof panel and bubbles the paint. No matter what paint repair is attempted, the bubbles will return. The only fix was to remove the roof panel and install a new one (while the panels were still available from GM - they haven't been available for years now). The red outlined areas are hard to see in the photo but there is a distinct line of blisters going all along the glue route.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/roofflaw.jpg

Unrelated to the roof defect is paint flaking off the front tips of the rear wing.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/spoiler2.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/spoiler1.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

If anyone happens to have an original black Firebird logo insert that goes in place of the front licence plate, give me a PM. The seller's husband said he had it hanging in the garage for years but couldn't find it when he recently looked for it again.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...7-p1030164.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...late_cover.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Great find for you and your son. Looking forward to a long thread :-)

You sure know how to find them.

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Steve Congrats! I was recently looking at a 93 Camaro for my kid and saw the roof paint issues, did not know it was related to the glue! Too bad the Camaro did not fit her, in order for her to reach the pedals the seat was too far forward and she was too close to the airbag. Good luck on the new father/son project! Not that there is too much to do on this [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Re: A Newer Project!
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If anyone happens to have an original black Firebird logo insert that goes in place of the front licence plate, give me a PM. The seller's husband said he had it hanging in the garage for years but couldn't find it when he recently looked for it again.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...7-p1030164.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...late_cover.jpg

</div></div>

I believe (99%) that I still have the one form my ex's car...she replaced hers with a purple bird....Im in brazil at the World Cup..but I will search for it when I return to the states next week..assuming you havent already found one.

Congrats on your purchase...sounds like a great car !!!

Re: A Newer Project!
 

The 4th Gen cars are great driving cars. I miss the 02 Berger car I had. LS power, 6 speed, Black, you and your son are going to have a good time reconditioning what few shortcomings this car has. This thing says WIN all over it!

Enjoy!

Tim

Re: A Newer Project!
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


I believe (99%) that I still have the one form my ex's car...she replaced hers with a purple bird....Im in brazil at the World Cup..but I will search for it when I return to the states next week..assuming you havent already found one.

Congrats on your purchase...sounds like a great car !!! </div></div>

Awesome, that would be great if you have it.

Gonna teach him how to wax the car today. It was fun trying to show him proper car washing technique for a black car, yesterday. Maybe we should rent &quot;Karate Kid&quot; first...&quot;Wax on, Wax Off.&quot;

Re: A Newer Project!
 

We spent about 4 hours today working on the car. Got a new pair of rear lift cylinders to replace to old ones which weren't holding up the rear hatch any more. Gotta love Advance Auto parts and their online $25 coupons!

After installing the new cylinders (while trusting my son to hold the broom handle in place to keep the hatch from slamming down on me), we started to clean the exterior.

I showed him how to use the clay bar and detailer to clean the crap off the paint. The car was surprisingly clean compared to when we did the black paint on my daughters Impala SS a couple years ago. That car was a mess. Then we waxed the car and polished the rims.

Times like these are priceless especially after spending all those hours waxing and primping the black paint to have my son then look at the paint and say: <span style="font-style: italic">HEY, WHAT IS THIS! THE CAR IS ALREADY DIRTY AGAIN AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN DRIVEN IT ANYWHERE!!!</span>

I replied in best fatherly tone: <span style="font-style: italic">&quot;Welcome to the wonderful world of owning a black car, my boy.&quot;</span>

He was not amused.

Here are the after detailing photos. My wife, who usually doesn't notice anything more than the fact that her car was washed, actually noticed quite a difference in the shine from yesterday.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t.../P1030201a.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t.../P1030204a.jpg

And parked next to the old bird. My son asked if we could move his great-grandfather's 1971 Lincoln to the house garage so he could park his car next to my Firebird and his great-grandmother's 1975 Firebird.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/P1030206.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

I had a 99 and a 02 WS6 for my Co. cars.Loved them!Tom

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Very cool Steve!!

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Today I drove the car down to my buddy's garage to try to get those pesky GM wheel locks off the rims. The seller couldn't find the key and deduced that Pep Boys didn't bother to put it back in the car when they sold her the most recent set of tires two years ago. So, luckily the Cornwall Tool truck showed up as we were trying the worn out lock remover socket that he had. They had a brand new one with sharp internal teeth that took the locks off rather easily. What a relief!

Later in the day the boy and I took the wheels off and cleaned the back sides of the rims to get the brake dust out. One thing I noticed was that the rear axle snubbers that are mounted to the frame had no snubber material left - it had just crumbled away when I touched the last bits of it. Were they made of some weird, purplish looking urethane that didn't survive 13 years?

Re: A Newer Project!
 

I did some research on those axle snubbers and it turns out that they were made of some inferior foam material that decomposed ten minutes after original warranty coverage. Most guys install aftermarket urethane snubbers, or originals from the 93-97 cars which used a more durable rubber material.

Re: A Newer Project!
 

It was a nice day so I had the boy do an oil change on the car. I instructed him on the safe way to jack up the car and where to place the jackstands. Hysterical to watch an 80-pound kid try to turn a wrench on the drain plug. All he succeeded in doing was to rotate himself around the underside of the car. I then told him to brace himself against something and then try again. That worked a little better after I loosened it.

I was able to locate the engine VIN and take a photo of the spot, That only took about 25 attempts to get the light in one spot, the mirror in another spot and the camera in a position to capture it all.

The machine-etched VIN is on the back of the engine mounting area that mates with the transmission bellhousing. It is directly blocked from view by the driver's side catalytic converter. You can reach it with a mirror and then see it in reverse. I was thrilled to see it matched the car's VIN.

Here is the general location. The silver rod is the handle of the mirror.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...enginevin2.jpg

And the actual VIN, stamped in a dot matrix format, as viewed on the mirror face.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...b2e0d721b2.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

This evening me and the boy drove the car over to my buddy's garage and rebalanced the tires. The prior owner had religiously brought the car to Pepboys every couple months to get the car aligned and the wheels balanced. Besides losing the lug nut lock key, the Pepboys tire &quot;experts&quot; method of balancing the tires consisted of throwing the wheel on the machine and then adding another weight. They never bothered to remove the existing weights. The result was 4 rims with half a dozen weights on each rim.

So we pulled all the weights off and rebalanced each rim. Turns out each wheel only needed an ounce or less of weight.

The boy had a lot of fun using the impact wrench to remove the lugnuts. Had to train him to take his finger off the trigger....after half of the lug nuts skittered across the garage at hyperspeed.

We then headed home and made it into the garage ten seconds before a thunderstorm hit. Timing is everything!

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Love this thread. Great car, father and son, thank you Steve. Black car will keep him busy!

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Nothing like asking a teenager if you can borrow &quot;his&quot; car. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

The new ACC carpet set arrived yesterday and is currently stretching out on the floor in the playroom. It is one giant piece from front to hatch area. Hopefully that will get rid of the cigarette smell, otherwise we will do the T-top headliner fabric next.

We had to do this with my daughter's car when we got it. It was a 4,000 mile Impala that we got at a great price, but the former owner was a chainsmoker. We had to gut the interior, disinfect the upholstery, and throw away the original carpeting. It then took a year for the residue to go away.

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Steve, you may be able to steam the headliner instead of replacing it. Check this, Larry from Ammonyc. Great detailer with tons of technique vids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjHEcPcTJTE

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Thanks! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: A Newer Project!
 

From what I have seen the adhesive on headliners in later model cars that were &quot;smoker owned&quot; ends up failing and the fabric comes loose from the foam eventually.

Steve - it looks like a great car - and a really nice way to spend time with your son.

Jake

Re: A Newer Project!
 

The new bump stops arrived today from Hendrick Motors in NC. They had a pair on the shelf down there. You can see that they are made of some weird, yellow, hardened foam. The originals just crumbled away after 13 years.

At least the bolts loosened nicely with some PB Blaster. The aluminum spacers were part of the modifications done by ASC during the factory WS6 package upgrade. The WS6 cars came with 17 rims so the had to use the spacers to lower the bump stops, in order to prevent the tires from bottoming out in the wheel wells.

Here you can see how the original foam section is gone, leaving only the metal backing bolted to the spacer.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...8-p1030233.jpg

The new snubber next to the spacer.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...9-p1030237.jpg

And after the boy installed it. Another successful afternoon project.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...0-p1030241.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Just curious, is the originals are a faulty design, why are you replacing with the same parts? The originals could have deteriorated 10 years ago.


Jason

Re: A Newer Project!
 

I'm a glutton for punishment and like original parts. The aftermarket urethane ones look like aftermarket pieces. And they require you to hacksaw off the locating tabs on the unique spacer blocks.

Re: A Newer Project!
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a glutton for punishment and like original parts. The aftermarket urethane ones look like aftermarket pieces. And they require you to hacksaw off the locating tabs on the unique spacer blocks. </div></div>

I like the logic, I'd just find/buy another pair now for the inevitable....

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Nice TA Steve. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: A Newer Project!
 

We got back from camping a couple days ago. Nothing like spending a week in the middle of no-where in the July heat, with no A/C and then have the A/C go out on the truck the moment you start the 300 mile trip back home. Ugh! It was like a Clark Griswold family vacation nightmare from the 1960's. I ended up ordering a new condenser from rockauto while on the road and it was delivered just in time for our arrival at the homestead. I then spent an evening at my buddy's garage installing it. After 19 years, the original condenser sprung a leak at the factory seam. The new AC/Delco unit bolted right up...after some modification to the original brackets.

So the next day me and the boy tackled the smoke impregnated factory carpet. I had him remove everything and he did very well. I'm glad we pulled the old carpet since it appears that the prior owner must have tried to clean the driver's foot well area and soaked the carpet so badly that the jute and the foam padding was too wet to reuse.

Here's the boy hard at work removing the rear seat attachments. He spent most of the day with me (9:00 AM to around 4:00 PM when he dumped me to go to a movie with his sister). [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif[/img] The kid has no stamina.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-p1030354a.jpg


And here is the old carpet once we pulled it out. Many cups of coffee found their way onto the floor by the cup holder area of the console. And the driver's foot well section was just as nasty. We ended up pulling off and reusing the all factory jute backing sections from every spot but the driver's seat area, since that was soaked and moldy smelling.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...3-p1030363.jpg


And the nice clean floor area...after vacuuming. We found $1.95 in change!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...5-p1030357.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

That new carpet from Auto Custom Carpet weighed a ton with the optional rubberized backing. To add to the grief is the fact that the Firebird used a one-piece carpet that goes from the dash to the rear hatch area. It took a very long time to get it centered and then installed. I quit at 9:00 PM after getting the carpet in and the surrounding moldings.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...4-p1030365.jpg


I pulled out the factory foam backed headliner and gently scrubbed it with a damp cloth soaked with dishwashing detergent and water. I let it dry overnight and Fabreze'd the heck out of it the next day. That seemed to work to get the smoke out.

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Here's the finished product. After scrubbing all the seats and applying leather preservative, my son and I spent the afternoon reinstalling it all. The car actually smells nice now. No more smoke residue.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...5-p1030369.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...6-p1030374.jpg

I was able to salvage the cracked polypropylene seat bolster by using the plastic welder and extra polypropylene welding rods. The repair is underneath and on the back side so it is invisible unless you remove the seats.

I also used some flexible bumper repair material, supported by wire mesh, along with a couple zip-ties, to the pull the two large cracks together on the driver's door panel and then permanently repair the cracks. There is still a visible repair spot but not nearly as visible as the original 1/16&quot; fractures.

We pulled the passenger side panel to reconnoiter the condition and found one tiny crack about to start in the same locations - the 90 degree angles that are cut into the panel where the inner weatherstrip attaches. We removed the factory staples, reinstalled new staples in a non-stressed locations and then used the flexible bumper repair material to form a layer of internal bracing to the area.

All is well now, until we can find a nice unbroken (and inexpensive) driver's side panel.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...7-p1030376.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

We went out to the local cruise night tonight and the Firebird and Camaro just so happened to be tonight's featured car. There were several dozen first, second, third, and fourth gen Firebirds there. Another black WS6 pulled in and parked next to me right after this photo was taken. (It was an 2002 with an automatic...and a baby seat in the back.)

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-p1030379a.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

I dont if you've looked at LS1Tech they have a good board to hunt for parts like the License plate cover. I have a 99 Trans Am and its a great place to figure out the electrical issues these cars are plagued with (you'll see [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img] ) My car has same roof issue as yours does, the soultion is buy a repop piece 6-700$ or find a 93-97 doner and carefully remove it and paint install the earler cars were not effected like the 98 and newer ones like ours. I cut one off at boneyard for 50$ - thats as far as I have gotten but I have more time than the funds and my car isnt so bad yet. do some searching in LS1Tech

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/roofflaw.jpg

</div></div>

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Already been over there and started a sister thread to this one. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Just picked this up today off of a 1997 Firebird in a local salvage yard. If the paint was a little bit better I could have used it as is, but the clear coat is crackling from sitting out so long. Now comes the fun part of carefully removing it from the steel frame. What method did you use? Piano wire or a heated knife?

BTW, what is the small triangular trim piece by the lower edge, held on with?

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...1-p1030396.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Well it took two days but we got the panel detached from the steel frame. First we had to use a sawzall and disc grinder to cut away the edges of the steel to allow a straight shot under the plastic panel. Then came the heat gun heating the steel to the point where it allowed an old butchers knife to slide in between the panel and the steel frame. On the middle areas where the plastic panel curves over the edge of the steel we used the windshield removal tool: a wire with two handles, to slide-cut the adhesive once the steel was hot enough to release it. The heat makes all the difference. Without it you could be there for a week with that windshield tool sawing away..

Here is the final result:

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...4-p1030397.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...5-p1030398.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Well done boys!


Jason

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Went to my buddy's garage this morning and installed the skip-shift eliminator harness. It is a $10 plug-in that goes between the solenoid on the transmission and the harness that leads to the solenoid. Got rid of that annoying 1st to 4th gear, mandatory shifting. While we were under there, we checked to diff and trans oil levels. The boy is getting better with his wrenching, though he still thinks that everything has to be mega-tightened. Not with a drain plug, my boy! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/scholar.gif[/img]

Took some underbody photos after we wiped down the rear diff oil spray residue from prior to the diff being rebuilt last year by the dealer. Here it is.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...6-p1030401.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...7-p1030402.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...8-p1030405.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...9-p1030406.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...0-p1030409.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

And noticed that the steering rack and the power steering pump were leaking. Gotta love that extended warranty! I'm going to call the dealer on Monday to get them replaced. ($50 warranty co-pay).

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...4-p1030413.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...5-p1030416.jpg

Re: A Newer Project!
 

I would push to put hoses in too. As a rule, when both are leaking............there is an issue with one of the hoses that causes the system to over pressurize. FWIW

Tim

Re: A Newer Project!
 

Update on the steering rack: I brought it to the local GM dealer. The extended warranty covered most of it. Those warranty companies sure do nickle and dime the dealership to death. The service manager is very familiar with these warranty companies: he told me that they put you on hold for 20-30 minutes any time you call and don't pay the full repair rate and try to get you to put used parts on. They do this just to get you to give up on a claim. He was right. I was there when he was simply trying to get an update on authorizing a part and I could overhear the aggravation he was going through.

Since it is a GM dealer they wouldn't guarantee the work (only the labor) unless they installed Delco parts. The warranty company finally agreed to using Delco parts. The rack was a Delco unit ordered by the dealer. The power steering pump was a Delco unit provided by the warranty company after they balked at the high dealer price. The warranty didn't cover the pressure hose, so I got a new Delco hose from rockauto for $25. The warranty company didn't pay for the alignment and their labor rate was $10 less an hour than the dealer so I owed that difference. And there was a $50 deductible on the warranty policy. So in the end, for a $1,100 repair bill, I paid $225.