Stamping Tests
 

We've secured several blocks/heads (unsalvageable) of the 65-72 era for testing stamps/re-stamps using Thermal IR. We're tentatively scheduled to conduct the tests on the 22nd. I will post the results, what could / could not be determined, etc. Our scientist believes we will easily be able to detect those pads/stamps that have been altered, and possibly even be able to reveal the characters that were initially ground off.

Re: Stamping Tests
 

Interesting-- Then another term that is currently under used could enter the mainstream of the hobby- a "restamp" will become a "restoration block" if a shure fire way to easily detect the restamp is finally perfected.

Re: Stamping Tests
 

or use the term it has restored numbers lol

Re: Stamping Tests
 

Thanks for taking this on. I hope it is successful!

RichPern

Re: Stamping Tests
 

Yes...let us know. My original block was decked by a racer to get the "True" 11:1 compression and is still that way today. I would be interested in what you come up with.

Dave
67 Nova Boy

Re: Stamping Tests
 

Prosecuting attorneys have been doing the "acid thing" for several decades now to make the ghost images of VIN #'s reappear after having been ground off.

Re: Stamping Tests
 

I've been researching the acid test. It seems to have about a 50-70% success rate from what I can gather. Not too shabby. I'm just testing this method and perhaps it can do better? We have the thermal IR camera for free for testing purposes and the scientist is pretty confident so why not give it a go!

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Will this method work on all metals?

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That's what I'm told......what did you have in mind?

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will this method work on all metals? </div></div>

Yes .....And not just metal.
We have used this technology in the aerospace field for quite some time.We primarily use it to detect delaminations in composite structures.Once a composite layout is delam'd it acquires moisture.This is easily detected with the TIC.

Re: Stamping Tests
 

An IR Camera measures heat. Maybe “right” after stamping a block you may see the heat from the impact, but after the metal reaches room temperature I think it will all look the same. I don’t think this will show prior stamps but if you get some good images please post them.
The reason you can see the delamination in composite structures is because of the moisture and its effect on heat. Ever wonder why the police helicopters don’t use the Flir cameras to look for dead bodies?
Mike

Re: Stamping Tests
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: twertsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's what I'm told......what did you have in mind? </div></div>

Check your PM's.

Re: Stamping Tests
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dusk Blue Z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An IR Camera measures heat. Maybe “right” after stamping a block you may see the heat from the impact, but after the metal reaches room temperature I think it will all look the same. I don’t think this will show prior stamps but if you get some good images please post them.
The reason you can see the delamination in composite structures is because of the moisture and its effect on heat. Ever wonder why the police helicopters don’t use the Flir cameras to look for dead bodies?
Mike </div></div>

These scenarios will all be part of the tests. Cold test, mild heat test (set in the sun), low heat (such as a simple lighter), and more heat (torch). We'll measure the temp of the area in each scenario. As indicated by the term &quot;Thermal,&quot; the system detects anomalous temperatures in an area. Using the &quot;dead body&quot; scenario above, Mike is right. The body will reflect the same temperature as its environment after a given amount of time so you wouldn't be able to see any anomalies and therefore, couldn't use the technology to find a dead body.

The concept here is that the stamp creates a more dense area underneath by compressing the iron and therefore will cool at a different rate. The system we are using is a very expensive setup. Our scientist says that each character in a stamping should produce a slightly different &quot;signature.&quot; In other words an &quot;A&quot; will show different characteristics during cooling than a &quot;1.&quot; Cataloging these signatures will give us a &quot;library&quot; against which we can compare images from a new test and determine what the old stamping was.

Please remember that I'm a management consultant, not a scientist! I just work with a customer where there is a lot of cool stuff like this. I noticed there are a couple members that do/have worked &quot;hands on&quot; and/or closely with this technology. Given that, and your obvious interest in classic cars (since you are here!), if you have any other ideas for test scenarios, please pass them on so we can include them in the testing! We are working with a salvage yard and have access to tons of examples.

Re: Stamping Tests
 

I was actually going to suggest a sonic density tester,The compressed steel might show better. I use FLIR thermal imaging all the time being a firefighter, in theory the torch might work. The compressed steal might hold temp longer being denser as it cools..... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] But the cameras we use wouldn't be sensitive enough. GOOD LUCK

You never succeed if you don't try....

Re: Stamping Tests
 

Infrared is just a small portion of the Predictive Maintenance Services I offer my customers. I don’t think the cheap (18K) antique (8 year old) IR camera that I have would have the resolution or the range of focus to provide any useful images of a pad stamping. There is no macro setting and you can’t shoot through a magnifying glass. I don’t know what the capabilities would be with a laboratory grade camera.

You could check another forum site that I have used in the past, IRtalk.com . Post what you want to try and do in the applications section. There are a lot of really knowable people there who will give you some feedback and maybe some suggestions as well.

Good luck and post a picture if you get a good one.
Mike

Re: Stamping Tests
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dusk Blue Z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Infrared is just a small portion of the Predictive Maintenance Services I offer my customers. I don’t think the cheap (18K) antique (8 year old) IR camera that I have would have the resolution or the range of focus to provide any useful images of a pad stamping. There is no macro setting and you can’t shoot through a magnifying glass. I don’t know what the capabilities would be with a laboratory grade camera.

You could check another forum site that I have used in the past, IRtalk.com . Post what you want to try and do in the applications section. There are a lot of really knowable people there who will give you some feedback and maybe some suggestions as well.

Good luck and post a picture if you get a good one.

Mike
</div></div>

The good doc dropped off the camera to me last night. Makes me kinda nervous....85K! She's locked away in the gun safe! Plans may be taking a turn though for the 22nd and we might have to delay, but we'll &quot;git 'er done.&quot;