Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Hi, Anybody here have any knowledge of the 68 Camaro L89 convertible lot # S152 selling Saturday at the Indy auction? I have a good friend who is interested in bidding on it if it's real. Any history info good or bad would be greatly appreciated. Wish I knew how to install a link like Steve did for the 62 Impala but I'm not that computer savy.
Thanks, Chris
508-529-1970 or pm's would be great.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

See if this works.

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail...mp;startRow=121

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Chris,

For all that you do for me....it`s the least I can do [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Here you go.

DESCRIPTION

ESTIMATE: $150,000 - $200,000

If you could go back in time to 1968, walk into a Chevy dealer and order your very own future classic Camaro, you might very well drive away in this gorgeous convertible. Let’s begin with first impressions: the 1968 Camaro SS was one of the stellar designs of the late 1960s GM styling period, and this car’s Cordovan Maroon finish with Parchment top, Parchment-on-Black interior and White wraparound stripe is simply stunning. The SS appearance package that includes a bulging hood with chrome bezels, Red Stripe tires on Rally wheels and special badging adds a muscular edge to the look.

As if being a Concours-quality SS convertible isn’t enough, there is plenty more, because this low-mileage, completely numbers-matching star packs one of the most desirable driveline combinations of the era, the L89 aluminum-head 396 big block V-8, backed by an M22 “Rock Crusher” four speed manual transmission. This was the combination that brought out the new Chevy pony car’s true nature in big block form, and in this case, that spirited performance is topped with the highest level of driver and passenger enjoyment available in the form of the RPO Z87 Custom Interior, which featured special seat trim, molded arm rests, woodgrain dash and panel trim, bright pedal inserts, deluxe wheel and passenger grab handle. Add in the U17 special Instruments option with four console-mounted gauges, electric clock and tachometer and you have a very special piece of classic top-down Chevy muscle.

While GM records are not exact, it is thought that only six convertibles were equipped with the L89 engine in 1968. Of the six, this very collectible example is one of only two documented examples known to exist. Featured on the November 2007 cover of Super Chevy Magazine, it carries just 46,000 original miles on the clock and comes with the complete owner history, original invoice and Protect-O-Plate. With its superb combination of rarity, a full contingent of options, the top drivetrain and full documentation, this rarest of Camaro convertibles is clearly one of the best of its era.

HIGHLIGHTS

- While GM records are not exact, it is estimated that only six L89 convertibles were ever produced
- Of the six, only 2 documented examples are known to exist
- Cordovan Maroon with White convertible top
- Parchment and Black interior
- Complete numbers matching drivetrain
- Fully restored using NOS and original refurbished parts
- L78 396/375 HP V-8 engine, L89 aluminum heads
- M22 4-speed manual transmission
- 46,000 original miles
- Complete owner history
- Original invoice and Protect-O-Plate
- Featured on the cover of Super Chevy Magazine in November 2007
- Ordered in June of 1968 and delivered on July 18th to Al Lincoln Buick Chevrolet in Troy, North Carolina

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ps503870fa.jpg

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...psb9126aae.jpg

Dan

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Beautiful car...but the dreaded &quot;Caution Fan Sticker Fairy&quot; has struck again. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Seriously, who keeps putting those stickers on high end cars?

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Yea, what is it with that sticker? Kinda makes you wonder what else.............

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DW31S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yea, what is it with that sticker? Kinda makes you wonder what else............. </div></div>
That &quot;what else&quot; question always enters my head as well when I see that item.

The colour combo here really rocks for me. I assume it should have a smog system.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

That decal happens to Pontiac people, but it's a reproduction air cleaner decal that has its origins in Buicks. Too many Ponchos are restored with this decal.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-400-...-/230510581887

I don't believe there are any L89 convertible numbers but it's akin to the &quot;1 of 18&quot; LS6 ragtops.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Beautiful...........(Except for the Fan sticker)

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Very nice looking car but to me, the paint color looks too dark for Cordovan Maroon.
James

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

More tiny issues...Shouldn't the engine lift brackets be unpainted?

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

I think we'd all have to review the paperwork and engine pad. Numbers matching is vague. Born with drivetrain would be a bit more exciting.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

No plug in end of aluminum head.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427.060</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very nice looking car but to me, the paint color looks too dark for Cordovan Maroon.
James </div></div>

I thought it looked too much like 1967's Royal Plum but I'm not a Chevy guy so I wasn't sure (even though the color was shared among other GM brands).

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

i would like to see documents, owner history or jerrys M. certification.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Do some homework!!!!!

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Isn't that was the original poster was doing when posting here. It sounds like you may know something Rich. Interested in tutoring us?


Jason

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

not 100% sure, but isn't that a '69 intake with the heater hose outlet (plugged)?

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

There was another '68 L89 Convertible with a similar color combination, which sold at Mecum Indy a few years ago. I remember that it also had a dealer invoice and POP. It was a former cover car for I believe, Muscle car review?

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

a pop is not a trusted document anymore due to boxes and boxes of originals found. Theirs a guy in florida who has an original machine who makes them and he has boxes of original unstamped nos booklets. WE all know who that is. hes been selling them since the late 80s

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Thanks to all who have responded here. Unfortunately sounds like nobody has any real history as to prior owners or originality of the drive train. My first impression after viewing the pics provided on Mecum's website are not great as I noticed the cylinder head discrepancy along with the missing smog system and the detail issues that are incorrect. I unfortunately was not planning on attending this auction so I was hoping for some info to surface (good or bad) to help out my friend who is interested in it.
Thanks, Chris

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Don_Lightfoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=DW31S] I assume it should have a smog system. </div></div>

My thinking as well. Any Experts care to comment?

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mr 707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a pop is not a trusted document anymore due to boxes and boxes of originals found. Theirs a guy in florida who has an original machine who makes them and he has boxes of original unstamped nos booklets. WE all know who that is. hes been selling them since the late 80s </div></div> Actually we don't all know about it. This is the first I hear of this but I am not at all surprised.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No plug in end of aluminum head. </div></div>

Surprised more people didn't pick up on that.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mr 707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a pop is not a trusted document anymore due to boxes and boxes of originals found. Theirs a guy in florida who has an original machine who makes them and he has boxes of original unstamped nos booklets. WE all know who that is. hes been selling them since the late 80s </div></div> Actually we don't all know about it. This is the first I hear of this but I am not at all surprised. </div></div>


The experts here are pretty good at seeing through the real protecto-plates and the fakes(newer issued)..... Although I am no expert, I have seen some that are just 'too new', especially the booklet..and many of the 'newer issued' seem to have 'many times' a vague address..like a Po box or highway number....researching the address on the protecto plates at the County hall of records is a good way to verify prior property/name ownership..I actually located the original owner of one of my cars by just writing a letter to the protecto-plate address. I also proved a protecto-plate for a 69 L-89 camaro false by looking up prior property ownership history...The owner of the property in 1969 was not the same name on the protecto=plate..a few other details also made it obvious that the protecto-plate and and tha car 100% not original/fake...

It would be nice to see all the paperwork on the car...and the VIN stamps also...I'm surprised noone knows any history on this car...

apparently some issues with correctness, but beautiful car though !!!! I'll take it !!! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Can-I-Have-It.gif[/img]

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

The experts here are pretty good at seeing through the real protecto-plates and the fakes(newer issued)..... Although I am no expert, I have seen some that are just 'too new', especially the booklet..and many of the 'newer issued' seem to have 'many times' a vague address..like a Po box or highway number....researching the address on the protecto plates at the County hall of records is a good way to verify prior property/name ownership..I actually located the original owner of one of my cars by just writing a letter to the protecto-plate address. I also proved a protecto-plate for a 69 L-89 camaro false by looking up prior property ownership history...The owner of the property in 1969 was not the same name on the protecto=plate..a few other details also made it obvious that the protecto-plate and and tha car 100% not original/fake...



Ding, Ding..........This bit of info should apply to &quot;All&quot; L-89 cars.........Hint .....Hint!!!!

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

I'm not sure if this is the same car but it certainly appears to be. A few years ago I was asked to help authenticate a car identical to this one. The car had a known history of owners but no docs. The only thing was the title which carried the SAE HP number which would prove it to be a 396. The engine appeared to be a restamp but can't prove that. The broach looked suspect as well. After purchasing the car the new owner told me he had contacted the son of the original owner and the son found the p-o-p. Close scrutiny of the docs would be advisable.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

So, cars are, at this point, just a hobby for me. Let's just say my real job makes certain &quot;capabilities&quot; available to me. If you folks want to determine fake vs. real stampings, broaches, etc., buy a Thermal IR camera. There is no way to hide alterations to metal from Thermal IR, you will see any additions, welds, cracks, whatever is not originally poured on the readout plain as day. They aren't cheap, but given all the stuff I see on here about questionable authenticity, that's your ticket. Here's a REALLY good one. You can however get them significantly cheaper....

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Maybe you could post a picture of the thermal image of an actual block stamp. Metallurgically, I guess that the internal stress could impact the heating/cooling rate very slightly. I don't understand why the thermal unit would pick up a stressed area in the absence of heat change though. Worth a try - show us what you have observed.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwhizz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The experts here are pretty good at seeing through the real protecto-plates and the fakes(newer issued)..... Although I am no expert, I have seen some that are just 'too new', especially the booklet..and many of the 'newer issued' seem to have 'many times' a vague address..like a Po box or highway number....researching the address on the protecto plates at the County hall of records is a good way to verify prior property/name ownership..I actually located the original owner of one of my cars by just writing a letter to the protecto-plate address. I also proved a protecto-plate for a 69 L-89 camaro false by looking up prior property ownership history...The owner of the property in 1969 was not the same name on the protecto=plate..a few other details also made it obvious that the protecto-plate and and tha car 100% not original/fake...



Ding, Ding..........This bit of info should apply to &quot;All&quot; L-89 cars.........Hint .....Hint!!!! </div></div>

All 'L-89' cars <span style="font-weight: bold">only</span>??? it should apply on <span style="font-weight: bold">ALL</span> cars that have a protecto-plate. Especially the 'one-of-one's..or is it 'one of two?' These 'newer' protecto-plates have been around for many years.
Many of the property records are on-line now and can be looked up easily. Although many counties do not go back to the 60's on-line. But a 'records searcher' can be found on line that will research the address for a very reasonable fee(usually less than 75 bucks).
The original owner that I found by the protecto-plate address was just a 67 rs-ss small block car, but it was really neat as 'she' wrote me a letter about her 'golden hawk' and even sent me some day one black and white pics !!

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe you could post a picture of the thermal image of an actual block stamp. Metallurgically, I guess that the internal stress could impact the heating/cooling rate very slightly. I don't understand why the thermal unit would pick up a stressed area in the absence of heat change though. Worth a try - show us what you have observed. </div></div>

Because there is NO WAY for a &quot;forger&quot; to duplicate the properties of the metal in the original mold, thermal IR will show the difference in the properties of the metal. In addition, one would have to grind the original stamping (which would also change the properties of the original metal and show up on thermal IR), then build the area back up, presumably via a weld, stamp the new numbers, and then &quot;clean up&quot; the entire area around the new numbers. Frankly, an exhaustive process, but one that puts a significant amount of stress on the original casting, as well as adding new material with different properties. Here is a thermal IR image of a common weld, cold (no heat applied).
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-4763-weld.jpg

If you imaged the block while hot, it would be even more pronounced but as you can see, heat is not needed to detect a weld. Believe it or not, a weld will also cause a very small amount of moisture or sweat, even though you can't see it. Here is a thermal IR image of moisture trapped in the metal.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...4764-water.jpg
Sometimes, you don't even need thermal IR, although, I think it's more accurate. Here's an IR scan of a &quot;clean&quot; weld (one that has been fully worked/blended with the original material.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...24-4765-ir.jpg

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe you could post a picture of the thermal image of an actual block stamp. Metallurgically, I guess that the internal stress could impact the heating/cooling rate very slightly. I don't understand why the thermal unit would pick up a stressed area in the absence of heat change though. Worth a try - show us what you have observed. </div></div>

Sorry Bergy, regarding an image of an actual block stamp, we've never done that, but the same principals logically apply. And frankly, an educated guess tells me the people who fake blocks/stampings aren't nearly as careful/skilled as those we are after...

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: twertsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe you could post a picture of the thermal image of an actual block stamp. Metallurgically, I guess that the internal stress could impact the heating/cooling rate very slightly. I don't understand why the thermal unit would pick up a stressed area in the absence of heat change though. Worth a try - show us what you have observed. </div></div>

Sorry Bergy, regarding an image of an actual block stamp, we've never done that, but the same principals logically apply. And frankly, an educated guess tells me the people who fake blocks/stampings aren't nearly as careful/skilled as those we are after... </div></div>


I do not believe there is any welding done on the block re-stamps. They just grind them enough to remove the existing numbers and re-stamp the new machined surface.
Does that machine work to show prior stampings below the grinded surface. I assume the metal molecules are somewhat crushed deeper into the metal when it is stamped..?? I once contacted a 'scientist' about a ZL-1 block who mentioned about 'etching' the metal??

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

I do not believe there is any welding done on the block re-stamps. They just grind them enough to remove the existing numbers and re-stamp the new machined surface.
Does that machine work to show prior stampings below the grinded surface. I assume the metal molecules are somewhat crushed deeper into the metal when it is stamped..?? I once contacted a 'scientist' about a ZL-1 block who mentioned about 'etching' the metal??

I'm not familiar with &quot;etching.&quot; Unless he was talking about them using etching to fake the stamp/numbers. In which case, that could also be detected.

So, several things: first, if the above is their process, I would think precise measurements would reveal that process, given known blocks were from the same mold. Second, if measurements aren't reliable, infra-red would be very likely to reveal remnants of the original stamp underneath the fake. Lastly, if you had a thermal infra-red image of a known real block (after heating), then compared that image to the one in question (again, after heating), you would see anomalies in the &quot;worked&quot; area. You MUST image them from the exact same angle however.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Pretty soon you will have to be a nuclear scientist to authenticate a car...what a shame. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif[/img]

wilma

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WILMASBOYL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pretty soon you will have to be a nuclear scientist to authenticate a car...what a shame. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif[/img]

wilma </div></div>

Particularly for us &quot;newbies&quot; to the hobby who don't know all the stuff you guys do......and getting ripped off.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Ok, so I just spoke with our Chief Scientist (PhD Physics). He says that it would be easy to tell a re-stamp with a thermal infra-red camera. Here's the process:
1. Start the engine and let it get hot
2. Turn the engine off
3. As it cools, take an image every 15-30 seconds
4. Compare the images (visually inspect them)

According to him, the old stamping will be revealed at some point during the cooling process. He says there is no way they could grind away enough of the original stamp without it being blatantly obvious.

So there you go.....
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

the guy in florida has ORIGINAL BLANK PLATES not newer plates and nos protecto plate booklets. He isnt the only person who has them either. Every thing on these cars has to be checked out. I am making no statement about the L-89 in this thread. i dont know anything about it. I could talk about gas tank stickers and dealer order forms. They counterfit those too. iF I WAS BUYING A 200K CAR I WOULD WALK THOSE DOCUMENTS UP TO A HISTORICAL DOCUMENT EXAMINER . i KEEP A REAL TANK STICKER IN MY COLLECTION FOR REFERENCE.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

If anyone near Northern VA has a known re-stamp, I'd be glad to arrange a test with a local vendor of thermal IR cameras. Alternatively, someone could walk me through the process of creating a re-stamp in iron / aluminum (tools, dies, whatever would be needed) and we will test it. I'll post the detailed results on what exactly it would look like so you folks have the info.

Re: Mecum Auction 68 L89 Camaro
 

Of course, there are some &quot;virgin&quot; over the counter blocks that have original broach marks. These would not have to be ground to stamp them. One well known 67 L88 that lost its motor has a correct build stamp long block in it. The person that had the car restored years ago chose not to stamp the VIN on the block.