Please advise
 

Here's my dilema. I bought a 68 BB camaro that was rumored to be a BM car. I took a very sceptical approach to the car and assumed it was not. I got in contact with who may be the first owner to find out what hp the 396 was. He said it is a BM car and had a 427 "do your homework and you'll find that to be true". He had sold the car to go to bible school and become a preacher. He told me very little about the car, it ran high 10s and the second owner wrecked the car.
I contacted Mr. Rosen twice now he told me to go throught the NICB for starters. I did and it came up with no records.
Next I was able to find the second owner He was a wealth of information about the history of the car, who rebuilt the car after the wreck and so on he had also had contacted motion performance back in the day to find out something about the car. He is sure that it is a Baldwin motion car.
My major delema is I haven't been able to get pics or paperwork from either party yet the second being very busy but saying he'll get some for me. In the meantime I would like to present this information about the car to Mr. Rosen as the more I look at this car the more I'm convinced that this is a very special car. 1968 Camaro Photos for those that look at the tag in the photo bucket that was made sometime after the car was rebuilt the baldwin is mispelled and the CE block is a 1971

Re: Please advise
 

Dan - when u say you "did" the NICB, what did you actually do? My understanding is that if Joel is going to verify your car, he will want his fee up front. If I understand your "dilema", it has to deal with the original owner. That will take time to gain his trust and understanding, but will be worth your investment of time and patience. Looks promising Dan. Please keep us poste.

Re: Please advise
 

Sam
My dilema is. do I go forward with Mr. Rosen without all the information that I can potentialy gather in time? Or do I continue working on the history then present it to Mr. Rosen. This post is also hopeing that someone may remember the car from Washington state. A NICB Agent Did a search on the car and found no records, This included a short search and more extensive one what that entailed I don't know
Thanks, Dan

Re: Please advise
 

Factoring in the home made Baldin tag, the 69 up alternator location, the 69 up disc brakes I would think someone built the car later. You need more info.

Re: Please advise
 

Charlie
you are correct. also the motor in the pic is out of a station wagon the ce block from 1971 is seperate from the car. All the sheet metal and front end was new in the 70's after the car was wrecked by the second owners friend. It is oem metal and cost the owner $11000.00 to rebuild at that time. I believe that's some of the paperwork that is available.
Thanks
Dan

Re: Please advise
 

Suggest you get as far as you can before approaching Joel. Need to build a concrete case. Dont think you have enough at this point. Good luck.

Re: Please advise
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dans68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sam
My dilema is. do I go forward with Mr. Rosen without all the information that I can potentialy gather in time? Or do I continue working on the history then present it to Mr. Rosen. This post is also hopeing that someone may remember the car from Washington state. A NICB Agent Did a search on the car and found no records, This included a short search and more extensive one what that entailed I don't know
Thanks, Dan </div></div>

It sounds like the records he searched at NICB were the insurance claims records. All they would show would be prior insurance claims. He may not know that he has to contact NICB headquarters and have them pull the microfiched shipping records for that VIN. What you are looking for is the shipping record that would show the original dealer destination code of Baldwin Chevrolet.

Re: Please advise
 

Good information to know. Thanks

Re: Please advise
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dans68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sam
My dilema is. do I go forward with Mr. Rosen without all the information that I can potentialy gather in time? Or do I continue working on the history then present it to Mr. Rosen. This post is also hopeing that someone may remember the car from Washington state. A NICB Agent Did a search on the car and found no records, This included a short search and more extensive one what that entailed I don't know
Thanks, Dan </div></div>

It sounds like the records he searched at NICB were the insurance claims records. All they would show would be prior insurance claims. He may not know that he has to contact NICB headquarters and have them pull the microfiched shipping records for that VIN. What you are looking for is the shipping record that would show the original dealer destination code of Baldwin Chevrolet. </div></div>

Steve, Are saying that information is now available to a normal guy without an ongoing official investigation?

Verne

Re: Please advise
 

Im having the same dilemma, NICB dident show anything.

And this is from Joel Rosén.

If you can get me a copy of the NICB report it will tell who the dealer really was. In addition, we would have to do a search which is $2000.00 payable in advance with no guaranty it will be favorable to you.

Re: Please advise
 

That is not the first time that I have heard of a NICB report coming back with knothing. I believe it is fairly common.

Re: Please advise
 

My Z/28 has a &quot;BY BERGER&quot; emblem on the back and no records at Berger or from the NICB report.

Re: Please advise
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Verne_Frantz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It sounds like the records he searched at NICB were the insurance claims records. All they would show would be prior insurance claims. He may not know that he has to contact NICB headquarters and have them pull the microfiched shipping records for that VIN. What you are looking for is the shipping record that would show the original dealer destination code of Baldwin Chevrolet. </div></div>

Steve, Are saying that information is now available to a normal guy without an ongoing official investigation?

Verne </div></div>

Sadly, no. There has to be some legal issue with the car for them to do it. Such as a possible rebody or VIN swap or insurance fraud and someone in law enforcement has to request it for their investigation. For example, I remember a few years back when an &quot;air car&quot; 70 hemi roadrunner ragtop surfaced. (Air car = car that appears out of thin air with no history). The NICB search indicated that delivery destination for that VIN originally had a 383 engine code not an &quot;R&quot; hemi code in it.

Re: Please advise
 

Your car does have some very interesting &quot;clues&quot; about it even though most of them have been removed or torched off. The remnants of the tow bar brackets, subframe connectors, traction/ladder bar brackets, etc. Keep on digging!

Re: Please advise
 

Thanks Mark
in a addition the shifter is notched and the axle tubes are welded and the other race touches gauges,air shocks, 1&quot; sway bar dual points ect...could have been done at any time by anyone that raced the car but they are fun to find and research.

Re: Please advise
 

The ignition is not period correct enough to be motion installed. Also, regarding the traction bars welded to the rear end, I don't think that motion used that style of traction bars.

-Matt

Re: Please advise
 

Saturday drove across the state to the preachers house almost 200 mi. one way and suprised him with a gift (legends of a muscle car builder) and took him out to lunch. We spent 3 hours talking about the car, I felt like I kidnapped him and interigated him but I believe he enjoyed the trip down memory lane. I found out he was the one that put the disc brakes and gauges in the car. He was not the original owner he bought it from a kid for $2200.00 $200.00 of that was because it was a Baldwin Motion car. The kid (no memory of name yet) only had it for a month and his parents made him sell it because it was to fast. At that time it had already been turned into a passenger car again. The preacher had kept the paperwork for years and then one day had no use for it and threw it out. He says and would sign a notorized letter that is was a BM race car. He also was the one that changed the yellow to daytona and suggested I remove the door bumpers and mud flaps. The preacher also showed me his 71 supersport El Camino That he keeps in good shape under a car cover for sunny days (car guy all the way). Still along way from finding out the story but at least some answers are coming to light.

Re: Please advise
 

&quot;Tales of a muscle car builder&quot; my apologies. I've now bought 3 copys