Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I hired a restoration shop in Woodstock, Il to restore a 1969 Camaro for me as well as purchased another 1969 Camaro convertible from them that was in the process of being restored.

Long story short, I was supposed to have the cars in March and I dont have my cars - the last 6 months has had every excuse imaginable and then some. At this point I have given up on the fact that they are ever going to do the right thing. I cannot just walk away as they have one of my cars there and $50k of my money.

What are the legal options in Illinois to assist me in getting this resolved? Unfortunately I am in NY so it is not as easy as going there to resolve the issues or to take my cars.

The shop is located in Woodstock, Il.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

That sucks. It's guys like that, that give us honest restorers a bad name. I am over 4 hours away from them otherwise I would be happy to drive there and check them out. There are lots of other locals on this site, maybe one of them can swing by. If I can help in other ways just let me know.
Rick

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

PM sent

Jake

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

PM sent also.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

PM sent, glad to help

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

THIS...is what it cool about this site!

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I think there are a lot of Chicago guys that know who Santa has been watching and know they have not been good........

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS427</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there are a lot of Chicago guys that know who Santa has been watching and know they have not been good........ </div></div>


[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif[/img]


This too!

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I am in the next town over,Let me know if I can help. John

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

Wow - I am overwhelmed with the amount of people willing to help me in resolving this.

I received many PM's - I greatly appreciate this. It has been a terrible year dealing with this shop and to make matters worse I told them that I lost my mother in July and my father had brain surgery the same week and suffered a stroke the next day. Regardless of the fact that I told them that I really could use to sell at least one of the cars to cover costs to help take care of my father they still could give two shits about me or my family.

It really puts a sour taste in my mouth - I know there are alot of great shops out there that stand behind thier word and deliver quality work but after this I am frustrated with allowing anyone to do anything for me.

The last conversation that I had with him he was gravely ill (actually on vacation) and told me once he is back to work he needs 2 months to finish the car that only needed glass and interior 8 months ago.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

Todd, don't let one bad egg spoil your fun. There are many shops out there that would not treat you this way. Many of them including myself are on this site and are long standing members. I would trust them before anyone else. Get this issue resolved first and then see how you feel.
Rick

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I am with Rick on the Shops that are out there. Lesson to be learned, NEVER have anybody do anything for you that is not in a reasonable driving distance from your home. No one can keep a better check on things better than the owner. Maybe you should go out there and have them brought back to your home or a safe place and determine what you are going to do from there. My opinion. Good luck and hope your dad is doing better!

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I disagree with the distance thing Sam. I tell my customers that first and foremost, find a shop that is an expert in the type of car you own. How a shop can restore a VW in one corner, a Duesenberg in the next and a COPO in the third is beyond me. They can make them all pretty but I doubt they are all, if any one, concours correct. Also, if I were to walk into a shop that I wanted to have restore my 69 Camaro or 70 Chevelle as an example and they had several crash and burn insurance jobs on newer cars in the shop I would also turn tail and run unless this shop has two seperate businesses within the business as well as employees. In my 30 years of restoring cars, less then 10 have come from the same state I live/ed in and most were on one or the other coasts.

In order to be successful a shop needs to keep the client well informed, up to date with billing and photographs and continual progress. Make them a part of the restoration process. I have learned some valuable and hard learned lessons in that department recently but needless to say, communication is key. You can give your client their car back that they are 100% happy with but if you have not made the venture pleasurable for them getting there than you have ultimately lost in the end. In todays day and age it is not that hard to 'drop in' on a shop even if located far away especially with business people who are always traveling. Finding an expert on your type of car is more inportant than the convenience fact but that is just my opinion.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I am sure there are shops within 50-75 mile radius that could do his work don't you? NOW if he wants to send it to a SCW or your!! shop or Schonye's etc,etc. that everybody knows than that is different. If you are not going to one of those preferred places than do it pretty local to you where you can drop by and check it out on occasion. Again, JMO. If he sent it to the shops I just mentioned even though they are far from him, this thread would have never started.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I am going to chalk this up as one of those live and learn lessons. I have certainly learned alot of this experience and cannot wait for it to be over now.

If this shop does not do the right thing with assistance from some of the people that offered to help I will no longer use the discretion of not mentioning thier name here. As well, I will get alot more aggressive in getting my cars and my money.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I live in Genoa Ill, about 30 minutes away and would be happy to go there and pick up both cars for you. I have an enclosed trailer big enough for two cars so space is not a problem. Let me know.

Nick

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

There you go Todd. The Morocco family are great people, all of them.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chevy427450</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an enclosed trailer big enough for two cars so space is not a problem.</div></div>

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/haha.gif[/img] Boy! There's an understatement!!! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

Great gesture Nick. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif[/img]

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I would take Nick up on his offer. Get the cars out of there and then figure out what to do with them. The sooner the better.

Perhaps call the local PD and let them know about the situation and that you have authorized someone to pick your cars up...

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I AM 20 MIN. AWAY IF I CAN HELP

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I just came upon this thread &amp; got caught up. All I can say is that if a guy named Nick Morocco showed up with another guy that goes by &quot;Gorilla&quot;, the cars would probably be loaded in short order, and, put away for safe keeping.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sixtiesmuscle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just came upon this thread &amp; got caught up. All I can say is that if a guy named Nick Morocco showed up with another guy that goes by &quot;Gorilla&quot;, the cars would probably be loaded in short order, and, put away for safe keeping. </div></div>

Ha, x2

Dan

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I spoke to the shop owner today in regards to this matter. I requested the ability to have someone (one of the many helpful Yenko.net members) inspect my vehicles and remove the coupe if it is completed as stated.

He clearly stated that noone will be authorized to come into his shop to inspect my vehicles. I suggested that if this is a problem that he can roll them out into the parking lot or even bring them to another location for inspection but he clearly stated that there will be no inspections and that if that is not acceptable to call his attorney.

Well, I did just that. I spoke with his attorney who the owner has already spoken to. As a side note - I have been in business for years and never needed an attorney to help me with my business, I guess this is a sign of what type of person and or company I am dealing with. I demanded I have a chosen party come and inspect my coupe that is supposed to be complete on Oct. 10 and also at this time inspect my convertible that is supposed to be in process of completion. As well, I stated that if my coupe is complete I will have it removed and expect a refund of the overpayment for work that will no longer be completed. At that time I also expect one of two things - either my convertible is completed in a reasonable amount of time (2 weeks is my idea of reasonable) or I expect an immediate refund of all monies paid towards that car. The only thing the attorney suggested is that he would like to be present during this Oct. 10 inspection period. I also agreed to only send (1) person at this time (owner must have had prior experiences with multiple people intimidating them).

So the drama continues. I appreciate all the help being offered and I am expecting a returned call from the attorney next week for confirmation of this agreement. Lets hope that this method will resolve the issue otherwise I know we also have other options.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sixtiesmuscle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just came upon this thread &amp; got caught up. All I can say is that if a guy named Nick Morocco showed up with another guy that goes by &quot;Gorilla&quot;, the cars would probably be loaded in short order, and, put away for safe keeping. </div></div>

Amen Mike. And we all know they couldn't be in better hands.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

.... Dang,
... I was hoping everyone would show up at the same time
...waving banners saying.... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Charley.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Charley.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Charley.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/Charley.gif[/img]

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I agree with Mike...and it sounds like the shop owner is covering up....why else would he not allow an inspection?

Send the cars to Rick... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

Hey Nick, I'm in Kingston. If you want a hand loading the cars let me know. I have flexible hours (24-48) and have plenty of experience loading cars. I'm familiar with Woodstock too, grew up next door in Crystal Lake.

Eric

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

Forclosure and bankruptcy makes people do funny things. Just sayin...not implying that the shop is. A local guy did the same thing 3-4 years ago.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

Cant explain why people do what they do - when you start lying you have to continue to lie to cover up for the prior lies. It is just really bad business.

One way or another it will get resolved and soon - I have had all I can take and at this point I will employ any measures I have to so that I get my cars and or money. People only have so much patience - when you start messing with my money or my family you cross the line and all bets are off.

I look forward to making relationships with new shops in the area - I will try not to let one bad egg spoil the bunch.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS427</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I disagree with the distance thing Sam. I tell my customers that first and foremost, find a shop that is an expert in the type of car you own. How a shop can restore a VW in one corner, a Duesenberg in the next and a COPO in the third is beyond me. They can make them all pretty but I doubt they are all, if any one, concours correct. Also, if I were to walk into a shop that I wanted to have restore my 69 Camaro or 70 Chevelle as an example and they had several crash and burn insurance jobs on newer cars in the shop I would also turn tail and run unless this shop has two seperate businesses within the business as well as employees. In my 30 years of restoring cars, less then 10 have come from the same state I live/ed in and most were on one or the other coasts.

In order to be successful a shop needs to keep the client well informed, up to date with billing and photographs and continual progress. Make them a part of the restoration process. I have learned some valuable and hard learned lessons in that department recently but needless to say, communication is key. You can give your client their car back that they are 100% happy with but if you have not made the venture pleasurable for them getting there than you have ultimately lost in the end. In todays day and age it is not that hard to 'drop in' on a shop even if located far away especially with business people who are always traveling. Finding an expert on your type of car is more inportant than the convenience fact but that is just my opinion. </div></div>

This sums it up. Reputationa and communication, along with customer referrals is the absolute key to having a great experience.

But, at this point, the thing to do is get your cars out of there asap!

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I think I would mail the titles to Nick along with a letter authorizing him to pick up the cars. Then Nick can bring a police officer with him and pick them both up. Show up unannounced. This guy is stealing your money and will probably steal what he can off the cars. Get back what you can now. I speak from experience by being ripped off by a slick talking deadbeat named Lipke from Castlerock Colorado. Ended up hiring a Private Investigator to find what was left of my car.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

Charlie,

Thank you for the advice - sucks to hear that the same has happened to you in the past.

The problem I have is that only one of the cars is mine. The coupe that was sent there for final body work and paint is my car and the convertible I was purchasing from the shop so technically I guess I do not own it until I take possession of the car or title. I have paid for the car in full (only by the shop screwing me over) but the title was never sent to me.

I was assured by thier attorney that I would get a reply next week to my request to inspect the cars and remove my coupe if it was complete. I also demanded a check for the unused balance for work that I told them not to complete due to the circumstances.

If all goes well and the attorney sets a date for this to happen I think I will have Nick go there in an attempt to inspect my cars and remove if possible. Not knowing him but hearing the few comments from other people here I have confidence that he will properly represent my rights. The attorney asked about 3 times how many people I desired to send for inspection - I guess the owner must be aware of the fact that I have had enough of his bullshit and lies and will do what I have to do at this point to recover my propery and money.

Anything short of them agreeing to this I will take alternative measures to recover my monies and property. At that point I could care less if 50 guys go there and barracade them all in the shop until they come out with my cars and money.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I hate that this happened to you. Good, dependable restorers are a precious commodity. When you find one that you can trust (many on this site) - stick with 'em!

Charlie is right about taking the cops with you. Too many crazy people have weapons these days. I've had experience with taking a bunch of &quot;friends&quot; to recover my stuff. We were successful, but it had the potential to be very messy. Looking back - I wouldn't do it again.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I hope that some time in the future you will reveal the name of the shop........so others will benefit by not using this guy in the future.......I seem to remember a couple of years ago someone having a like experience from a restorer in the Woodtock area......Hummmm!!!

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I would not go there without the police, just to ensure that this is documented if it should go through the courts. If nick has the title and a noterized letter from you authorizing him as your agent for removal of said vehicle. Do you have proof of payment that all work is paid? This is all that should be needed, and the officer will agree and tell the shop owner to release the vehicle. All officers and police dept. are different, but i hope they don't take the easy way out and say it is a civil matter for the courts. I would also notify the police ahead of time and explain the whole situation.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

When the issue is resolved I will disclose the name of the shop that was involved in this. At this time I do not want to add another dynamic of difficulty with the shop discovering this and stating that I am slandering thier business and use this as another means to delay giving me my cars and or money.

I do not want to see anyone else go through what I am going through. Most of us work very hard for our money and our cars mean alot to us so when you mess with either of them it makes for a bad situation. With the help of the Yenko.net guys I am sure we will get this resolved and I will post some pics of the cars once I get them and complete them.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I recommend showing up with the right towing company that will scare the xyz out of them. Have them consider the state showing up going through their shop going over 'everything'. My father in law works at a towing company in chicago (melrose park), and they also tow for the state (so they have that connection).

You go in there without the state police on your side, it could get worse for you.

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

make the appointment, if at all possible get on a plane and go yourself,take Police, titles and have transportation in line....GO GET UM!

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

I would contact your attorney and get him involved. Probably worth the cost at this juncture.

I would also get the garage to FedEx you the title to the convertible you bought from them. Do you have it in writing that they sold you this car? It would be a shame for you to have invested so much money into the car and then have them back out of the deal.

Best of luck!

Re: Anyone in Woodstock, Il. Area?
 

Just a thought; you may want to consider getting your original car and the money back for the convertible.

Something tells me that if they are this difficult to deal with regarding getting the cars to you, what are the chances their work is at the level you are expecting/deserve?