Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

I have a '69 Berger Camaro with a fairly decent restoration. One problem though...when the restoration was done, the fender wells and firewall were painted gloss black. Rather than take everything apart and redo it all, is there a way with some type of compound or mild chemical to "flatten" the paint somewhat (without removing it), so that it has a semi-gloss satin appearance? Thanks.

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

shouldn't the fenderwells be undercoated?

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

I think he's referring to the fenderwell that is seen when you open the hood; or maybe they're called the inner fenderwell?

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dakotakid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a '69 Berger Camaro with a fairly decent restoration. One problem though...when the restoration was done, the fender wells and firewall were painted gloss black. Rather than take everything apart and redo it all, is there a way with some type of compound or mild chemical to &quot;flatten&quot; the paint somewhat (without removing it), so that it has a semi-gloss satin appearance? Thanks. </div></div>

On an inconspicuous place, try scrubbing it with Comet abrasive cleaner using a sponge. Seems like I did this about 30 years ago on a part that was too glossy. I believe a very fine brass wool dipped in water might accomplish the same effect. Don't use steel wool, as the fince particles left behind will rust residue.

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

I was going to even suggest trying some very course rubbing compound. Anything with course abrassive is going to give it a hazy apperance, may look funky when the sun hits it ?

Mike

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m22mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was going to even suggest trying some very course rubbing compound. Anything with course abrassive is going to give it a hazy apperance, may look funky when the sun hits it ?

Mike </div></div>

That's correct Mike, any abrasive will show scratch(swirl) marks on a former gloss finish when the sun hits it. Maybe a product like Prepsol or another cleaning solvent with isopropoyl alcohol. Like above, test a small area.

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

I dont think anything will work..you can never replace a sprayed finish with any kind of rubbing..its impossible to make all the tight areas uniform..bite the bullet and do it the right way..the car deserves it!

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

I agree with Albert.

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

Best thing to do is to dis-assemble the front end and take the parts out and have them done right, you won't regret the decision to do it correctly and I know I would kick myself for not doing it right to begin with.

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

I had a similar situation on a car a couple of years ago...the underhood pieces had a little too much gloss (inner fenders, rad. support, brackets, etc.) good thing is they weren't installed yet. So we mixed some clear that had a soft dull finish...resprayed all the parts and it came out perfect. It covered the sheen and gave it an original look and added a layer of protection. Take it apart and do it right...it is really the only way.

wilma

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

Craig - tell us the particulars on your Camaro.

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

If it is just a fairly decent restoration you can dust the firewall in by removing as much stuff as you feel comfortable doing. My inner fenderwells are a bit to glossy on my camaro too but not enough to make me take it apart. Its also a Berger car. at least it has the correct emblem on it.

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

If it is only the front inner fenders which are irritating you here is something which I have used to remedy gloss problems in the past.
Fine polishing compound on a rag, and work by hand, sometimes this will knock enough gloss off, I have gone down as far as medium grit compound then come back to the fine to achieve the gloss level I wanted.
On the &quot;visible part&quot; of the inner fenders to get a decent result you would have to remove the battery, the heater hose retainer, the wiring straps and what ever else would interfere with your ability to access and hand rub-out all visible areas on both sides.
This is not going to be a small job, however it would save the dis-assembly, painting, and re-assembly.

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

Schoney, Albert and others, I've been reading mag articles and the internet for ever. None of the pros or knowledgeable restorers want to share their black brands,#'s or formulations.

Please ?????

Also may we assume that these single stage black (formulas) are not color sanded or polished........so I would think gun quality,
tip size and painter experience is all important. SATA or IWATA #
(???)

Thanks,

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

If you cut the gloss w/ flatting agent and then cut and buff you are defeating the flattening agent... I tried it, besides on inner fenders etc you can't cut and buff all of it.

I bought Quarts of Blue, Red, and Yellow tint and add them to std black (I buy by the gallon) in order to achieve the subtle differences I have found when taking the cars apart.

I went through the trouble of having 10 or so different &quot;black&quot; parts scanned some which were not visibly different and they all came back with different mixes... it's easier and way less expensive to tint your own.

BTW Caterpillar offers a VERY nice black that is great for replicating &quot;flo-cote&quot; primer.

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

Chuck, pm justbadjoe. My 2 cents is that originally none of this stuff looked anywhere near as good as it is restored to now. there were differences in tone, and texture due to differences in suppliers and processes. (dipped/sprayed)
Laquer tends to flash dry to a blue haze. If you don't rub it out, it stays that way. I'm sure most parts went through a bake oven which changes thing also.
I don't think they much cared how it looked on the frame/stub area, or under the hood much at all. It needed to look semi respectable for maybe 6 months after the sale, then it went to down hill. JMHO

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

I have always used the original GM frame reconditioning paint...some of the parts are originally more glossy.. in that case I used a black lacquer with flattening agent. But I have had great results with the original GM black. I had a few cases of the original formula in the old cans, but recently bought a case of the newer stuff and it still looks great. It is single stage and comes ready to mix spray.

...anyone else use this stuff??

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

Have to agree with Ken here, anyone that still has his 60's hair... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img].. has got to know a thing or two.
I have used some older GM reconditioning black, and I liked it for the most part.
On the few cars I have done over the last 15 years I prefere to use lacquer and flatten it myself, then I can change up the gloss level on differant parts. I love the look of the lacquer, and you could touch it up if needed. I have also had very good results using acrylic enamel W/ flattening added. For some cars I found a black DuPont machine acrylic enemal that was cheap to buy, and since it was going to be adjusted anyway the gloss was not a issue. Either way, I always shot the final black right over green PPG DP 90 (black), it does not take allot to cover that way.
On a side note , IMO, I do not care for single stag paint flattened, I think it is to hard to control the gloss level, especially when it is laid down wet.
The other thing to keep in mind here, like Ken said, there is no one magical answere to the underhood black issue.
All these cars we so cherish are now way over restored, and thats cool. It gives the restorer some artistic license. Paint UM like you like EM.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif[/img]...and watch those Judges.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

-----Does anyone miss the old Krylon semi-gloss black in rattle-can form as much as I do??? For rattle-can paint it was really good. As far as other rattle-can stuff, how about some of the NAPA stuff. For those of us not blessed with spray guns anymore the NAPA stuff is about as good as it gets. Its funny, NAPA has a &quot;frame&quot; black thats pretty good used for underhood, and an &quot;underhood&quot; black thats pretty good on frames. Somehow, they seem to have gotten it backward!...Bill S

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

I really liked the &quot;details&quot; brand rattle can semi black..dried real fast and had the right look..too bad they no longer make it.

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: olredalert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">-----Does anyone miss the old Krylon semi-gloss black in rattle-can form as much as I do??? ..Bill S</div></div>

When did they stop making the Krylon Semi Gloss Black? Do they still make the semi-flat?

Jake

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

I've heard the industrial formula is still 1613 lacquer, but haven't tried it out yet.

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...457&amp;ucst=t

TOM

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

----They still make Semi-Gloss and semi-flat, but unless its in the identical old style can the formula has been changed and I dont like it near as well. I still find the old cans out there but they are dwindling down. I cant get them locally at all......Bill S

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

They're different products with different part numbers, Bill.

KO1613 is the industrial formula that is available at industrial tool sources, but not big box public retail stores. I see its readily available from an Amazon vendor and on Ebay, however.

The new re-formulated mass market paints, 51613 which they now call satin, or the new semi flat

http://blogs.mustangandfords.com/664...rns/index.html aren't the same.

I don't think the mass market paints are lacquer anymore, I think the industrial mix is. I'm hoping its the same as &quot;old&quot; 1613. Some folks on other boards think its the same.

TOM

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

I haven't checked recently but I used to be able to get it at K-Mart of all places!

Jake

Re: Paint on fender wells and firewall
 

----Yup! Thats were I used to get mine but not around here anymore. It be gone......Bill S

Anybody familiar with PPG Delfleet Essential Single Stage Polyurethane
Black.......

Mixing Factory Pack Gloss with Factory Pack Flat Black
to acheive various gloss levels ?????

Anyone familiar with KRYLON Industrial Aerosol High Solids semi gloss
vs the "regular" 1613 that so many have used in past ???

Or for a quick easy semi fix you could spray some SEM brand Trim Black. It won't be correct but will look much better than what you are describing. It also goes on really easily and is hard to screw up. Comes in spray cans and dries in probably 2 minutes.

Not familiar with Delfleet but if it's a polyurethane and within the same line of paint, you're good to go. This is a great method to achieve you're desired gloss. Remember to shoot a test panel, then let it cure for at least an hour to gauge the true gloss.
Using flattening agent is always a chore and results are tough to duplicate. SEM gives you 1 result, no variants, having 2 parts to custom mix gives you full control.