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71 SS Motion
Has anyone seen on E-bay the 71 SS Camaro supposed promo car? I don't know how to post a link but was though it was something you guy's might get a kick out of. Item # 200492078314. Any opinions ???
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Re: 71 SS Motion
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] not much there to go on.
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Re: 71 SS Motion
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Re: 71 SS Motion
Wouldn't it be great to have Joel Rosen as an Uncle?? 'Hey Uncle Joel is VIN 124871N528221 one of you old cars??'
You would know if it was a winning lottery ticket or a looser! |
Re: 71 SS Motion
It'd be great if all's true but I'm not into the '1992 CarFax information on file was Phase III Promo car' part of the story?.
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] ~ Pete |
Re: 71 SS Motion
The hood is made of the correct green fiberglass that i have seen on other real motion camaro's. There is no way to tie that car with the hood, and nothing else screams motion. And my opinion is that his story holds about as much water as a fishing net. It's all hear say........
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Re: 71 SS Motion
wow yesterday it was $18k
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Re: 71 SS Motion
The seller is Steve Klein in CT. Pretty straightforward guy who has had some big dollar, real musclecars over the years - "The Bassboat" purple 70 hemicuda ragtop, several Stage 1 ragtops. My favorite was his original paint, 1973 SD455 4-speed car. He's sold off most of his collection over the past few years.
If I was selling it, I'd pay the "Joel tax" and get the definitive answer as to whether it was the real deal. |
Re: 71 SS Motion
Paying Joel is probably the only way this guy will get anywhere with this car. To me it takes more than a hood and an aluminum finned rear diff cover to make it a MOTION. I like the part in the ad where he blames a guy named Jesse Dunn for scraping the MOTION decals off the car. Furthermore, the previous owner(Jesse Dunn)supposedly took all the more MOTION defining parts and put them on his car. HMMM,If the car had these Motion parts and decals on it why would you tear it apart??? It makes no sense to me. $18k?????????? Thats alot for a car in this condition and not to have the slightest bit of proof its a MOTION.
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Re: 71 SS Motion
It's great when Joel can supply positive information on specific cars but his service isn't like PHS, Marti or Canada Vintage as the fee sometimes goes to the wind without any definite word of a yes or no Motion connection to a car in question..
I don't expect Joel kept everything in order by Vin back in the day and it's probably a big bunch o' work for him perusing boxes of files and invoices anytime someone's serious enough to buck up for a search through his treasure trove?. Unless the process is enjoyable for Joel, selling his history files to someone else to organize and provide the service may be worth considering?. Kind've like Shelby did but without the fiasco!. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] ~ Pete |
Re: 71 SS Motion
im not really up on 71's. but if it was a big block car, wouldnt the heater hoses come out of the heater box like on the 67-69 camaro's?
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Re: 71 SS Motion
Im pretty sure thats the way the heater core tubes were on all non a/c camaros 70-81 reguardless big block or small block. I could be wrong but I've never seen any different
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Re: 71 SS Motion
weirder things than this have been said and turned out true.
"It’s original owner took out the Phase III 454 engine the day that the car was purchased new. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img] The motor was installed in a 66 Chevelle race car. A 350 went into this Camaro and it was a daily driver. (the next owner) was handed a box that contained side pipes and a set of headers. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] These items had come with the car when new and had never been installed." a phase III Camaro with a side of headers? dismantle a turn key 11 sec car to mess with a 66 Chevelle ? sometimes you just can't ask why.... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] |
Re: 71 SS Motion
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x77-69z28</div><div class="ubbcode-body">im not really up on 71's. but if it was a big block car, wouldnt the heater hoses come out of the heater box like on the 67-69 camaro's? </div></div>
no |
Re: 71 SS Motion
I agree [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]
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Re: 71 SS Motion
I have seen some origial Motion paperwork,and it seems that Joel didnt put an car specific infomaton on the paperwork.
There was no info like VIN number or plate number. The paper work looks like a Jiffy Lube recipt but instead of saying 5 quarts of oil and a filter $20 it says 454 engine and phase 3 package installed $10,000 with the owner's name phone number and he time he was told to come pick the completed car up. Thats all he did back then. Typically it listed a lot of individual items he was adding,but it wasnt done like some kind super formal process.The customer got the yellow copy of the 3 sheet carbon copy form and Joel kept the other. The most identifyng info Joel might have on your car is a recipt that says "Red Camaro" with the owner's name and phone number. It is up to yo to prove that the red Camaro you are investigting actually belonged to the guy whose name is on the recipt. I have some recipts for Motion parts that put on my car back in the 70's,and they both look like the exact same recipt that was given to a guy who had an entire $10,500 phase 3 conversion done.Thats to say that the recipt that came in the box with the $20 mirrored dashboard insert that somebody mail ordered for my car back in 1977 looks just like the paperwork for a $200,000 car. |
Re: 71 SS Motion
The original owner must have had more money than brains. Who in their right mind would go out and have MOTION build a Phase III Camaro and pay probably close to $10,000.00. Then bring it home tear it apart to put the engine in a chevelle? It would have been alot cheaper to just buy the engine from Joel.
And it is true that stranger things have happened but I'm having a hard time buying into this one. It may very well be a 71 SS but thats probably all it is at best. |
Re: 71 SS Motion
The ad implies it was ordered by the dealer, used as promo, then sold to someone who wanted the motor. Sure would be great to see that "carfax".
from PeeBait; Question & Answer Q: are you kidding me? $18,000? It dont matter if this is a motion car or not, it is a freakin basket case, people like you are the reason that the market is the way it is now. Especially B/C the guy you bought it from didnt know what he had, and probably sold it to you for $800. A: Thanks for your entertaining response, I can always use a laugh. |
Re: 71 SS Motion
Car Fax? Car Fox? Car Flaps?
Sounds like a big fish to me. The car was used as a dealer promo? Im suprised Marty or Joel havent chimed in on this unicorn. $12,900.00 Is too much for a car with absolutely NO PROOF!!!!!!!!!. |
Re: 71 SS Motion
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x Baldwin Motion</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ad implies it was ordered by the dealer, used as promo, then sold to someone who wanted the motor. Sure would be great to see that "carfax".
from PeeBait; Question & Answer Q: are you kidding me? $18,000? It dont matter if this is a motion car or not, it is a freakin basket case, people like you are the reason that the market is the way it is now. Especially B/C the guy you bought it from didnt know what he had, and probably sold it to you for $800. A: Thanks for your entertaining response, I can always use a laugh. </div></div> I would have told that guy that it doesnt matter how bad the car is. If the car is in fact a documented B/M car,the VIN tag and chunk of firewall with the hidden VIN would be worth 20 grand alone. You are looking at a car that will be worth a quarter millon when the market turns around. |
Re: 71 SS Motion
So why doesn't the owner get the docs from Motion? If he believes that it is a real B/M car,that $3000 investment will net him 15,000, turning a $1000 dollar car into a $15,000 plus car. It appears that he may be skeptical as are the rest of us.
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Re: 71 SS Motion
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 61 vert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So why doesn't the owner get the docs from Motion? If he believes that it is a real B/M car, that $3000 investment will net him 15,000...</div></div>
Again and as I mentioned previously, Joel's services aren't like PHS, Marti or Canada Vintage as the fee sometimes goes to the wind without any definite word of a yes or no Motion connection.. Even if a car in question is a real Motion built car, if Joel doesn't have the info on file or someone can't provide original invoices for him to confirm as genuine, how could he ever state the Motion connection as fact?! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] ~ Pete |
Re: 71 SS Motion
Andy, where's that avatar?
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Re: 71 SS Motion
Because as mentioned,There are no real records of these cars. Basically the only way to document one is with the original paperwork and the "sworn testimony" of previous owners.
Since DMV records dont go back very far,you wont be able to go to the DMV and get ownship history. None of the Moion paperwork has the car's VIN numbers on them,so there will never be any way to really document most Motion cars. Basically what you are telling Joel is I have a red 71 Camaro with a Motion hood,does this look like a car you built? He is going to respond that he has no clue and take your $2000. If the car were almost completly unmolested and the original owner had a piece of paperwork with the VIN number AND his name on it,then Joel would tell you that he sold THAT guy a Motion car,and to the best of his knowlage the car you are looking at looks to be the car he sold him. If THAT guy happened to have owned 2 different Camaros at that time,then it could be that guys other car,but Joel would not be able to tell you what car it is since he has no paperwork with VIN numbers. At this stage of the game,there is little chance of ever documenting that car. On the up side,it is still worth a few grand. It looks pretty solid,and I am seeing plain jane base model junk with no titles that are rusted so bad they are breaking in half,still fetching $2000 or more. Heck,the right 12 bolt 2nd gen housing alone is worth that. It nis still a real SS 350 car,and it isnt that rusty or banged up. |
Re: 71 SS Motion
<span style="font-weight: bold"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">None of the Motion paperwork has the car's VIN numbers on them, so there will never be any way to really document most Motion cars.</div></div></span>
Sorry Rich, but disagree with you. I have a Motion Performance invoice from 1969 that lists the car's full VIN, owner's name, year, model, and color of the car. |
Re: 71 SS Motion
i would echo charlie's comments.
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Re: 71 SS Motion
I would imagine all of the Baldwin Motion cars have/had dealer/GM invoice with VIN and the associated work documented by Joel,(how much of those docs still exist or are accessible is not for me to guess). It's the shop orders and later customer conversions that may be more difficult to document. In regards to the above mentioned Camaro, the seller was not able to identify any tell tale signs of MoTioN mods to the vehicle, has no documentation and told me he now doubts it is a real BM car.
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Re: 71 SS Motion
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x Baldwin Motion</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Andy, where's that avatar? </div></div>
What avatar would you like to see? |
Re: 71 SS Motion
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 61 vert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: x Baldwin Motion</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Andy, where's that avatar? </div></div>
What avatar would you like to see? </div></div> woops. The OTHER Andy, PeteLeatherSac. He's preoccupied. |
Re: 71 SS Motion
Its still for sale. The owner wants $12,900. He needs to be a bit more realistic
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Re: 71 SS Motion
I think it's dropped a few more thou in price again.
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Re: 71 SS Motion
Now $5900.00 VIN 124871N528221 Cowl Tag reads: ST 71 12487NOR 127291 BDY TR 789 75B PNT 02 A Z27 |
Re: 71 SS Motion
I have a cars magazine that has a 1975 camaro rally sport that was bought and taken to MOTION to be built as a PHASE III but retained the yellow and black rally sport two tone paint and the rally wheels. I'll have to scan it and post it. The owner had a PHASE III 454 that was stolen and he built the rally sport as a very potent sleeper. It was a cool article
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Re: 71 SS Motion
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Re: 71 SS Motion
Michael, is there any chance you can scan that so it is readable? Maybe try as a PDF attachment ? Thanks
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Re: 71 SS Motion
Chris,
If I can figure out how to do it I would gladly do that for you. |
Re: 71 SS Motion
The trim tag code for exterior color says 75B (75 Cranberry red B - Black vinyl top) I am not the most knowledgable BM guy, but I don't remember ever seeing a vinyl top BM car. Let me know if there are any, I like to exland my knowledge.
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Re: 71 SS Motion
The trim tag may very well say that but that may have been the way it was originally but doesnt mean it stayed on. MOTION built a few 74 camaros that had vinyl tops.
It was all what the customer wanted at MOTION. If they had a car that was a vinyl top and the customer wanted it gone it was removed. The car you are talking about most likely isnt a MOTION car. |
Re: 71 SS Motion
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jireh Customs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The trim tag code for exterior color says 75B (75 Cranberry red B - Black vinyl top) I am not the most knowledgable BM guy, but I don't remember ever seeing a vinyl top BM car. Let me know if there are any, I like to exland my knowledge. </div></div>
Here are a couple. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...C/31x-Copy.jpg https://www.yenko.net/features/2004/JOEG2_big.jpg https://www.yenko.net/features/2004/JOEG1.jpg |
Re: 71 SS Motion
Thanks Guy,
Just got a few more wrenkles in my brain. And it is "Expand" not exland. See what I mean, I need all I can get. |
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