Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Ok guys please school me on what issues I'm going to have running ladders bars on the 68 Nova. I picked up a set of NOS NMW ladder bars. I have them installed but it really pre loaded to springs. Theres not much movement just pushing on the back of the car checking the spring flex.

Note: This car is weekend cruiser to work and a few car shows. Thanks for any input in advance.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

That's how "street"-type ladder bars work.....by binding up the rear suspension because of the two different arcs of the leaf springs vs. the ladder bars. Eventually, they WILL rip the spring perches off from the rear axle housing tubes. The only way to stop this is to cut off the stock rear axle housing perches and weld on leaf spring "floaters" onto the tubes. Unfortunately, these floaters then put a lot of stress onto the front ladder bar mount which isn't exactly very stout on these street-type ladder bars. I'm sorry if there's not a lot of good news in this answer but these are the reasons that you don't see these street type ladder bars on fast cars. A good set of quality traction bars has always been the best way to improving leaf spring suspensions with even a decent ride quality when you have the proper snubber gap.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Let me just add that if you really have your heart set on running these things the best two things you could do would be to weld a small square gusset(on on the front, one on the rear) of the leaf spring perches and also replace the "T" bolts for the leaf spring pads with quality U-bolts. These two modifications should make the perches a little stronger and prevent them from ripping off the housing tubes. If that happens, believe me, it makes a mess of things.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Ladder bars are a coil spring application. Like Mark said go with a quality leaf spring traction bar.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

About 20 years ago my good friend and old shop partner Jimmy had an a 12 bolt with those ladder bars on it,an 80 Malibu body with the frame rails notched,a burning desire to join the 2 and not 2 nickles to rub together.After cutting and welding the stock upper control arms to get the pion angle right but still left with worn out suspention bushings and socks,we had the bright idea of taking the ladder bars and drilling the front to accept a traction bar snubber.We then sheet metal screwed 2 blocks of wood to the floor of the car,positioned the ladder bars about 1" from the frame and zapped the bars right to the axle tubes.Car ran like a scalded dog and we got our first lesson on suspention design.They really should put a minimum age limit on how old you can be to buy a stick welder.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Here's a picture of a Nova with ladder bars on it. It was for sale a while ago on this site. I like the look but after purchasing my car, which had ladder bars on it, I found out from a LOT of people that they are horrible on the suspension. Needless to say I took them off for multiple reasons. So, in my opinion, if you want "the look"...go for it.

But, if you are really going to POUND ON IT, I would either put good leaf spring traction bars http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CEE-2101/ or the Slide-A-Link traction bars: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CEE-2100/

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...f/1969nova.jpg

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Thanks for the info guys. I guess they are coming off. I've got too much money invested in this project and don't want to have to fix broken rear end parts. I really like the look however I must say. I guess at the end of the day I do want something that is enjoyable to drive. I'm trying to stick with period "Day 2" components however. Does anyone know which Lakewood Traction Bars Dave Belk has on his Nova in the picture below?
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/s...arrellnova.jpg

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Well..... I was going to wait till the car was finished to post pictures, however I thought you guys might want to see what she looked like so far.
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/s...a/IMG_1082.jpg
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/s...a/IMG_1081.jpg
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/s...a/IMG_1083.jpg

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

I believe the correct Lakewood bar would be the Traction Action. We have an original set on our 1970 TH400 L78...here is a pic.

wilma

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/434640-DSCN0817.JPG

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

I second what Mark Johnson said about ladder bars and beefing the spring perches. And like Mark said, once they decide to depart due to the bind, and rip the rear end out of the car, it gets pretty ugly.

Years ago, Moroso had a ladder bar with a sliding segment on the nose. It was designed to mount on a set of frame connectors. Supposedly this forward mount slider helped a bit, but I'm sure everything had to be perfectly square for it to work right (not an easy task on a unit-body car). I had a few customers run them when I had a speed shop. One of the guys though, swapped back to a set of extended slapper bars and the can ran better (quicker). Some of the old guys around here will remember how we used to extend the nose of the Lakewood slapper bars so that the snubber would be closer to , or under the spring eye. Competition Engineering's slapper bar is (I think) a bit longer than the old Lakewood. It also includes the J-bolt kit. Rattle can it black and you likely won't able to tell the difference between it and the vintage Lakewoods (at least in my neck of the woods, it was pretty common to paint those screaming yellow Lakewood bars black).

Have fun

Wayne Scraba
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Zach, You can order new ones that look nice but they don't make the ones with the clamp at the rear anymore. Those are the harder ones to run across. I am still trying to locate you a set. Here is a pic. They made them with and without the small bar on the rear for the extra clamp but I really like the look with it there.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...rts/636d_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ars/jbolts.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...s/IM002271.jpg

this set is 55-57 chevy due to the shock mount being forward of the axle. They have the extension on the back but no bar for the clamp.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...s/IM002262.jpg



Tommy https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

These are the ones on my 68 Zach . Your 68 is really looking nice by the way .


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e%2068/023.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...2068/003x2.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e%2068/025.jpg


Tommy https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

That thing is sweet Zach.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif..how about some outside shots... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Has anyone tried a pinion snubber like Mopar and Ford have used on leaf spring cars?

It is a pretty easy set up. Even for a rear end without a pinion snubber mount surface you can usually find a way to mount it to the rear end OR "reverse" mount it with a snubber on the floor pan. They now make newer easily adjustable ones. With this and a good set of springs it is "unseen" unless you get under the car and look for it.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

If you are only going for the ladder bar 'Look', can you simply mount them a little loose around the axle (perhaps using a rubber sleeve) to prevent the damage? I really like the look, and plan to install the screaming yellow version on the '69 SS Nova.... someday!

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Wilma, thats a rare set of Lakewoods you have there. Haven't seen that style in a long time.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

If you like the ladder bar look get someone to make a set that get installed like a traction bar. Ladder bars even with a slider will bend the axle tubes.

Other than for the day 2 look, you don't need either to get the car to hook.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you like the ladder bar look get someone to make a set that get installed like a traction bar. Ladder bars even with a slider will bend the axle tubes.

Other than for the day 2 look, you don't need either to get the car to hook.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your recomendation to get it to hook? I am running a stock set-up, 5 leaf springs, HD shocks.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Zach, a great nova you have. I would take the ladder bars off and sell them to a coil spring car. Put the Lakewood slapper bars on if you want the Day-2 look. Try to get those wide bars from Wilma (he don't need em) if you can! Tell him they are obsolete and make his car look outdated! Only thing Wilma's bars need are the correct snubbers and shade of yellow. I also would use the J bolt kit if the bars have that bottom perch. That would be correct for that dated look. I bet they are my old Casler's on Belks car!https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you like the ladder bar look get someone to make a set that get installed like a traction bar. Ladder bars even with a slider will bend the axle tubes.

Other than for the day 2 look, you don't need either to get the car to hook.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your recomendation to get it to hook? I am running a stock set-up, 5 leaf springs, HD shocks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your PM box is full Tony.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

sticky tires,easy on the clutch..

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Resurrecting.....

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Wanted to continue this Leaf Spring / Ladder Bar discussion without invading the Tow Tab thread.

Looking for ideas on how to use the coil spring version on a leaf spring car. Was planning on just fabbing some plates to make it work.... thoughts?

My bars:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...partnumber.jpg

Standard instructions:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...ctionsheet.jpg

Out of the box:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...rsoutofbox.jpg

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Again, what is wrong with vintage slapper bars? That, as you know would be correct! There are some Hurst adjustable drag shocks on Ebay for sale for novas. A tough item.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

I'm with you Sam on this one.....and the...Drag shocks.are a.great option!!

Granted the Ladder Bars look cool...but eventually you're gonna rip or crack something in the rear.if you run the car hard...and you are eventually have to fishplate the chasisis for reinforcement
If you're gonna just tool around town and shows and hit the gas now and again...at least you'll minimize any damage or wear
Anyway..good luck.
.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JoeG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm with you Sam on this one.....and the...Drag shocks.are a.great option!!

Granted the Ladder Bars look cool...but eventually you're gonna rip or crack something in the rear.if you run the car hard...and you are eventually have to fishplate the chasisis for reinforcement
If you're gonna just tool around town and shows and hit the gas now and again...at least you'll minimize any damage or wear
Anyway..good luck.
. </div></div>

You nailed it JoeG! I'm going for the cool factor - slapper bars are fine, but nothing looks as serious as a full on set of Ladder Bars, [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

We don't plan to run the car hard, just want the look - loved that Nova model back in the day, and once got my doors blown off by a Harvest Gold '70 Nova with a 396, 4 hitter... and the view: tailights, chrome diff cover and ladder bars! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img] This was around '86 or so, in Bensalem, PA.

My Nova could not hang that day, no matter how chrome my slapper bars were:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...rp/71Nova1.jpg

Later pic: paint, bigger engine, better tires = still no match for that H.Gold BB w/ Ladder Bars:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...rp/71Nova3.jpg

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

I bet you guys ran from a roll!

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Squirrel cage.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

I had those ladder bars on my 67 Chevelle and ended up braking the tailshaft on my muncie, I didn't plan to run the car hard either.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 69L78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had those ladder bars on my 67 Chevelle and ended up braking the tailshaft on my muncie, I didn't plan to run the car hard either. </div></div>

I.... see.... nothing..... (Sgt Schultz) [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

We might not run them for long, but we are going to run 'em.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Lakewood still offers the set-up.

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/62020462.jpg

You might consider adding a front shackel for your ladder bar, a small once similar to this one on a Jeep might be just the key to keeping a happy chassis.

http://www.4x4review.com/Portals/1/O...-installed.JPG

http://www.4x4review.com/Portals/1/O...-installed.JPG

I like your effort not to build a cookie cutter car and selecting quality parts in the process.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Marlin, if you're serious about this I think it could actually be done relatively simple. Just think of using the Ladder Bar itself as a stiffening truss for the front segment of the leafspring. I'd buy a set of cheap traction bars to cut up, (or simply use your lower leaf spring mounting plates) and weld them to the top rear portion of the Ladder Bar and then just bolt a simple leaf spring clamp to the leafspring as close as possible to the front spring eye with a simple tab welded to the bottom of it and that should be it. If done properly, it would actually be functional as well as getting the look you're after.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars and chrome dif
 

Yes Marlin it can be done,we will talk. But I found out that any thing I do temporary ends up being permanent. That's all! Be talking to you. Paul

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Here's my two cents. I love the look of ladder bars. When I was a kid EVERY hot car had them. Now that I am older, I found out that they are HORRIBLE on the suspension and not needed if it's set up right. Oh yea....I almost forgot, they ride like crap too!

With that said, I understand exactly what Marlin is doing and think it's a great look as long as he doesn't mind the ride and doesn't thrash on the car.

I was very interested in the Nova below, a few years ago. Gotta love the ladder bars.

Kurt [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]

http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/52...600x600Q85.jpg

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...f/misc4591.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbt...764&amp;page=1

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Ladder bars have been on my 70 Camaro ever since I have owned it.(over 20 yrs?) I believe they were put on in the 70's. I have posted in the past asking for an ID, and noone seemed to know.

..they are welded to my rear and they are a tubular design with plates in the front if I recall. .I have never seen another set alike, but they sure do not look homemade either...too nice...let me know, I'll send You an email with a pic if Youd like.

max

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Send the pic, I'll post it.

Another influence was Reggie Jackson's red Deuce on the Nova poster - with Ladder Bars!

I think I have the application issue solved.... turned out to be easier than I thought, [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars
 

Marlin,
Set your ladder bars on the same pivot as your rear spring front eyelet. Make your eyelet bolt longer to bolt your bars on and they will be on the same pivot. They will work fine. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars and chrome diff
 

Was it the chrome diff cover that made the car faster.

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars and chrome diff
 

Thanks Kim, that sounds like a good idea.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Plowman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Was it the chrome diff cover that made the car faster. </div></div>

Ha! Nope - I had a chrome cover too, [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img] That H.Gold Nova was a guick car, could hear him coming - I gunned it but he just blew me into the weeds. Some mean old hippie dude was driving it - he matched the car = angry! I like the Ladder Bars though, [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Leaf Springs with Ladder Bars and chrome diff
 

Hey, watch that hippie stuff. That could have been any of us back in those days. There were some left over hippies in the early 80's. Thats when cars were cars and people had oil for blood.