Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

Hi, I was considering doing a 67 Camaro tribute to the Grumpy's toy car. I was very surprised to find little or no information on the web, and only "one" picture.
I was also surprised that these cars aren't documented or even still existing?
Anyone have any info or pictures?...anything? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

I think Grumps 67 was just sold not to long ago. That was restored back to when Jenkins had it in 67. Call Jenkins at Jenkins Competition in Malvern, Pa. Jenkins will probably talk to you and answer some questions. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

Three or four years ago it was at nat reunion in St.Louis. Tom had the 68 Harrell funny car there. Larry Kimball had it there. there is about 10 pages and several shots of the car. Look under other events. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

<font color="blue">I have these if they help </font>

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/426...92-Jenkins.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/426834-grump2.JPG

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/426834-grump3.JPG

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/426834-grump4.JPG

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/426834-grumpy.JPG

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

Wow thanks for the pictures.Why is the car black in the last photo?
Mark.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow thanks for the pictures.Why is the car black in the last photo?
Mark.

[/ QUOTE ]


LOL the "black car" is in Mike's signature area...it's his car in a vintage picture https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

oh..my dumb...lol

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

I remember these ole days.....

Jody.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

That 1st color pic of grumpys car looks like the color of the car is capri cream? or is it my imagination. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

I was at Atco this past weekend and saw a Chevy Monza painted as a Grumpy's Toy car. It had a huge aluminum rear wing a an equally large snorkel scoop on the hood. Never got to see it run though; I asked someone who was with the car if it was really a Jenkin's car and she said she thought to. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...arleySucks.gif

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was at Atco this past weekend and saw a Chevy Monza painted as a Grumpy's Toy car. It had a huge aluminum rear wing a an equally large snorkel scoop on the hood. Never got to see it run though; I asked someone who was with the car if it was really a Jenkin's car and she said she thought to. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill Jenkins had a car like that for matchraces, I have an old magazine some where with pictures of it.

Jan

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

Toy 14 was built for match racing. The only car unaccounted for is his '81 Camaro, anybody know its whereabouts or what became of it?

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

[ QUOTE ]
Toy 14 was built for match racing. The only car unaccounted for is his '81 Camaro, anybody know its whereabouts or what became of it?

[/ QUOTE ]

So what ever happened to his 70 Camaro? Has it been restored? just curious...

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

Grumpys Toy VIII has been restored. Well, what was left of the original car (roof, 1/4's) has been restored back to Toy status.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

[ QUOTE ]
Grumpys Toy VIII has been restored. Well, what was left of the original car (roof, 1/4's) has been restored back to Toy status.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks...so the car that was on ebay a number of years ago from Baltimore area was actually grumpys car?? I could have bought that car a while before the auction, but I was not sure if it really was what it was...same car??

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

Neither the 68 or 69 car have been found.There is some history on both cars into the early 70's,but the trails go cold.One real problem is that most old race cars were hacked into tube chassis cars back in the late 70's or early 80's back for anybody thought they would be worth much.Once the VIN numbers and chassis are gone most people stop talking about it as the "former so and so" car.And it just vanishes until somebody accidentially spills some good info into the right ears.Most of the racers dont think of these cars like we do.Some old timers might just quip without reservation that a car started life as a famous race car and think that there was no point in mentioning it anymore since the car has been cut up way beyond any hope of restoration.To racers,they would never think of a car being a restored example if it is just the original roofskin and rockers attached to a new body and chassis.We may drool over finding and restoring such a car,but to a racer such a car was gone decades ago when the body was reduced to just a few of the original panels and most of it went in the dumpster.You will need a LOT of documentation to locate the remains of almost any vintage race car.To find any early 70's race car of fame with an entire original body and chassis and credible paperwork would be a gold mine.If either the 68 or 69 Jenkins cars were found with most of the original body and subframe intact and it were restored properly,either one could be a contender for the most valuable muscle car of all time.I race the tracks in the Northeast every weekend from March thru October and I look over so many 1st and 2nd gen camaro race cars for clues,but there are so many "possibles" with too few "probables" to ever make it worthwhile to investigate the good ones.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

[ QUOTE ]
That 1st color pic of grumpys car looks like the color of the car is capri cream? or is it my imagination. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

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Sure looks that way to me.I wonder if the restored car still has the trim tag.I would have said that the picture was just faded or stained,but Winboldon white was pretty light,and the background wall and even the truck in the corner of that shot look pretty white and that Camaro looks pretty creamy.

You have to remember that this was the Grumps first Camaro and the first car he had after the red and white novas.It is entirely possible that he spent a while racing a car with Chevy paint on it before going to that "brand F" color.One thing that is odd is that the pic of the car in the shop looks a lot whiter,it also has lettering on the front fender that isnt in the other photo.I am leaning toward the car being Capri Cream for a while,unless that was a 68 only color.My friend has a Capri Cream 68 race car and it looks soooo vintage cool.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

Sounds like your talking about Toy VIII Rich. When it was brought to Bill, the only thing that remained of the original car was the roof and 1/4's. Their was no identifying marks (vin etc) to say that it was, or use to be his car.
Theirs no doubt the '69 car survives with word of it being "down south". The '68 car has been back halfed and basically modified beyond recognition. Bill is aware of this.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

That was actually me asking about the 70 car.
When I saw the car, it looked like a much later camaro..I believe a 79 or 80. It had the later style glass nose. The tailights were the wraparound 1980 style also. It was (obviously) tubbed and caged with an aluminum dash.
I would not have even believed that it was Grumpy's real car except that when I looked inside the trunk, I could see the partial cutouts from the original 70 marker lights on the inside of the quarter panels. The car was definitely an original 70 Camaro!! That really made me much more interested in buying the car. Unfortunately..(or fortunately, I guess) I had my mind set on buying the other car the owner was selling!! The car later came up on Ebay and I always wondered if it was the actual car or not.

..one that got away??? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

the '68 car was an original yellow car when he bought it, repainted white before raced.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

The 70 camaro Toy #8 was found as a tube chassis race car with some of it's original body shell remaining,and was restored and featured in a magazine.It had been discussed extensivly around here.

The 68 Camaro was sold to Brooklyn heavy back in 1971,the feds came to confiscate all of heavy's stuff back in the early 70's for some legal problems that he had.Witnesses to the raid said that the Camaro was not at the shop during the raid,and Heavy claimed it was at his "down south" house and was taken from there by the cops.A driver for Heavy at the time by the name of Carmen Rotunda,a speed shop owner form New Jersey,was said to have had that car the entire time and raced it in Modified Production back in the 70's after Heavy was arrested.There was some confusion since Heavy owned another 68 Camaro That he owned since before he bought the Jenkins car and it was believed that the car that Rotunda had was the other car not the Jenkins car.

I never followed the history of the 69 other then to say that I have heard that it was originally a non RS L78 car.This was stated by a few people to clear the air about the specualtion that the car was really a ZL1 because it was raced with an aluminum block in Stock classes.

A car being backhalfed wouldnt be reason to chalk it up to history,today they restore cars based off finding the original roof,quarters and doorjambs,and they replace everything else.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

Mr. Jenkins had worked in conjunction with the SRD chassis shop and developed an unusual 3-link rear suspension that was similar to a 4-link, but it only used one upper suspension arm on the right side only. My '70 Camaro that's beem discussed on this site before had this particular bracket in place. It had the Ramchargers' Magnesium Dana 60 with a conventional 4-Link currently, but you could see the unused upper three link mount still in the chassis. I don't know of any other '70's Pro cars using that 3-link rear suspension besides Grumpy's Camaros and Vegas.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

There must have been a few 3 link cars built.A while back when Jenkins' 70 was first found I threw a hissy fit because I know of a 2nd gen camaro that is absolutly Richie Zul's old car and I know right where it it right now.The car was a 70 Camaro converted to a 74 then a 79,and had a 3 link rear suspention.After a lot of leg work some calls to Richie Zul himself and more confusion iit was discovered that Zul owned 2 2nd gen camaros,one which he bought from Jenkins and one that was bought from Joe Satmary.As it turns out the car I know of was the car he bought from Satmary.That car like the Jenkins car had a 3 link rear suspention installed very early on just like the Jenkins 70 and the Vega.Most racers didnt like the 3 link and swapped to ladder bars early on.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

The '68 Camaro was a real L89 car too. Saw it when it was brand new. Jenkins will confirm this too. Sold to Carmen Rotunda when he was done with it.

Bob

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

3-link rear suspension was the hot thing in the seventies for Pro Stockers, when properly dialed in it was superior to other setups. But the problem was just to tune the upper third rod. It needed sideway adjustments to make the car hookup straight and in level. If the rod was off just a fraction the car launched with a twist and put more load on one of the rear tires.

I saw cars were they had three or four inches of sideway adjustments to play with.

All theses adjustments possibilities made it difficult and they soon went to fourlink systems instead that when dialed in did just needed some adjustments in the shocks.

You can see on pictures of that time if a car has threelink, the way they launch is the telltale.


Jan

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

[ QUOTE ]
A car being backhalfed wouldnt be reason to chalk it up to history,today they restore cars based off finding the original roof,quarters and doorjambs,and they replace everything else.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, It is not really that hard to replace the floor, frame rails and trunk.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/m.../photos037.jpg

The end result is my signature***

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

Hey Barnfind.Is that car with the floor cut out your 72?I will be doing the same thing to my 73.The car was tubbed.I will be using the new premade main floor with braces,the premade rear floor with framerails and braces,then I will use the package tray and inner 1/4 structure from my 74 Camaro,adding new 1/4's,outer houses and tailpanel.It is my high school car so I want to make it perfect,the main floor are patched and look good,but I think that with over 2 grand in new metal going on already why not make it perfect.Let me know how it all goes together.It looks like you dont have much of a jig under that car.Kinda scary.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

[ QUOTE ]
The '68 Camaro was a real L89 car too. Saw it when it was brand new. Jenkins will confirm this too. Sold to Carmen Rotunda when he was done with it.

Bob

[/ QUOTE ]I believe the 68 car was sold to Brooklyn Heavy. I think Carmen had his own 68 car unless Heavy gave him Jenkins car to race after he was done. Somehow I think that both those cars were in action around the same time, Carmens 68 and Heavys 68. But a long time ago. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

You mean the green car right?There was a vinyl top car that Heavy had that I beleive wasnt the Jenkins car.There is also a magazine article from back in the early 70's speaking of Heavy's 68 Camaro M/P car and also mentioning his newly aquired "secret" camaro meaning the Jenkins car.Many people have suggested that they were the same car,and some have even stated that the Jenkins car was delibratly repainted and fitted with a standard nose to disguise it's appearance as to not intimidate potential competitors on the money racing scene,or that the car's appearance was changed to keeep the feds from finding it.Lots of stories,but no real answers so far.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

Yea, Carmens green car and Heavy's orange car. I think Heavy's car had the back wheels wells cut more than the green car if I remember correctly. I also think there are pictures somewhere on this Site of the 68 car of Heavy's not to long ago.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

I race every weekend all over the New Jersey,PA area.I am trying to get eenough history of these cars that I can start posting notices on the bathroom walls.So many of these old battle wagons have been around for so long that the old timers know them like the backs of their hands.All it takes is a little bit of info to fall into the right hands to send a search into fast foward.I need to hook up with Nova Dan and start banging on doors https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

I spoke with the Grump at the York musclecar show a few years back regarding the current whereabouts of his '69 car. He said it was "out near Pittsburgh". . . He did not seem to be eager to elaborate or discuss further. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

In all fairness to him, I was probably the billionth person to ask him about it. His '69 car is one of my all time favorites and I'm sure I'm not alone. It would be a great find, indeed.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Barnfind.Is that car with the floor cut out your 72?I will be doing the same thing to my 73.The car was tubbed.I will be using the new premade main floor with braces,the premade rear floor with framerails and braces,then I will use the package tray and inner 1/4 structure from my 74 Camaro,adding new 1/4's,outer houses and tailpanel.It is my high school car so I want to make it perfect,the main floor are patched and look good,but I think that with over 2 grand in new metal going on already why not make it perfect.Let me know how it all goes together.It looks like you dont have much of a jig under that car.Kinda scary.

[/ QUOTE ]

I welded the whole car to the lift it was on and then measured all the locating points (twice) and then cut the floor/frame rails/trunk floor out with a plasma cutter. I bought all the pieces separate (I did use the floor with the braces and 4sp hump) and welded them together myself so that I would be sure of alignment and sufficient number of welds. A porta power is a good investment if you plan on getting everything where it is suppose to be. Also I replaced the outer rockers <u>after</u> i had the floor welded back in (that is what was welded to the lift). The jig it is sitting on in my signature is actually my boat dolly, the boat weighs 3500# and the Camaro cab is most likely less than 1000# so it should be ok. I will probably have it on the rotisserie after Xmas.

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

[ QUOTE ]
That 1st color pic of grumpys car looks like the color of the car is capri cream? or is it my imagination. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking the same thing..I tought it was white

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

My grandpa is Larry Kimball, and he sold the car a few years back, for $750,000. I believe the guy whom it was sold to, was putting it in a museum in Pennslyvania. Any questions, just post here and I'll do my best to answer them. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Grumpy's Toy Camaro's
 

Hi, do you have any info as to the actual color of the car? any pictures?
Thanks,
Mark

.....
What museum is Grumpy Jenkins 1967 396/375 Camaro in now ?
...
... I own the Next 1967 396/375 Camaro built after Grumpy Jenkins first Camaro.
It has all
... Original Paint
... Original Interior
... Always been a drag car
... Never been registered with license plates to drive on the street
... 1122 Actual miles

... It would be nice to see Grumpy Jenkins 1967 396/375 Camaro
...
:flag:

The 1967 Camaro, aka Toy III is currently owned by Dana Mecum, maybe someone on the board knows if the car is showed.