GM Deathwatch
 

I was gonna' post this below news blurb link about the company that purchased Hummer but can't find the GM Deathwatch thread...I expect it was deleted because of the foolish postings going on?.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

Hummer Link...
http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/new...entid=20213936

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was gonna' post this below news blurb link about the company that purchased Hummer but can't find the GM Deathwatch thread...I expect it was deleted because of the foolish postings going on?.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed...the last thread was pulled because it was headed into the dreaded "political DMZ"...let's try and keep this thread on topic, please. Carry on...
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Just heard something interesting..There's some Senators that realise that having a task force of hundreds of people in the Government dictating all kinds of lobbyist polices to GM is gonna be destructively counterproductive---
So in an hail mary attempt to block the Government's micro managing of GM these Senators are proposing to pass a bill to actually issue all GM shareholder stock to all American taxpayers who paid their taxes this year ,since it was our taxpayer money that bailed out GM ...thereby getting the Government fingers out of the GM pie .....Should be interesting.........

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Rob, did you see my reply in respect to your question on the dealer closings?

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just heard something interesting..There's some Senators that realise that having a task force of hundreds of people in the Government dictating all kinds of lobbyist polices to GM is gonna be destructively counterproductive---
So in an hail mary attempt to block the Government's micro managing of GM these Senators are proposing to pass a bill to actually issue all GM shareholder stock to all American taxpayers who paid their taxes this year ,since it was our taxpayer money that bailed out GM ...thereby getting the Government fingers out of the GM pie .....Should be interesting.........

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.. Any links to news stories?? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Sen.Lamar Alexander (R-Tn)...is the gentleman spearheading the bill that would transfer all the Government owned GM stock back to Americans who paid their taxes this year....

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Just got this email. WOW..gotta like the disclaimer at the end (last line of text). Whole situation is kind of heartbreaking.

Dear M. Holman,

As you may know, GM is using an expedited, court-supervised process to accelerate the reinvention of our company. At the core of that reinvention is a commitment that we will put the customer first in all that we do — starting with great cars, trucks and crossovers, and the best sales and service experience possible. We want to earn your trust in several ways, including:

GM Dealers — They are very much open for business and ready to meet your sales and service needs. And even though we are seeking buyers for our Saturn and Saab brands, have just announced the selection of a buyer for the HUMMER brand, and have decided to eventually phase out Pontiac, those dealerships also remain open and ready for service. The bottom line is service for GM vehicles will always be available through authorized GM retail and service facilities by GM-trained Goodwrench experts, with Genuine GM Parts on hand.

GM Vehicles — At this, the most important moment in the history of our company, our dedication to high-quality, fuel-efficient and outstanding-value vehicles has never been greater. Purchase a new GM product, and we stand behind it with a U.S. government-backed,1 comprehensive 100,000-Mile/5-Year Powertrain Limited Warranty.2 Combined with Roadside Assistance and Courtesy Transportation Programs, it is the Best Coverage in America. As I said before, our GM dealerships are very much open for business, and banks and credit unions are lending and continue to offer some of the best rates available to qualified buyers. To find information about GM dealerships in your area, please visit GM.com/vehicles/dealer.

General Motors — For over 100 years, GM has fueled America's passion for the automobile. Propelled by the spirit and commitment of our people, we will become the New GM, a company that makes Americans proud, and one that can compete successfully with anyone in the world. All of us at GM are confident that we will emerge a leaner, stronger company for you, offering the most compelling vehicles possible from our Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac brands.

Thank you for your interest in our GM vehicles. As we move forward, I invite you to stay up to date on our promising new future by visiting GMreinvention.com.

Sincerely,
Troy A. Clarke, Group Vice President, GM North America
Troy A. Clarke
Group Vice President
President, GM North America
1) Government-backed warranty for GM vehicles purchased from March 30 – July 31, 2009.

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
Rob, did you see my reply in respect to your question on the dealer closings?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, I didn't...I musta missed all of that fun! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just heard something interesting..There's some Senators that realise that having a task force of hundreds of people in the Government dictating all kinds of lobbyist polices to GM is gonna be destructively counterproductive---

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind that it was GM management that made one destructively counterproductive decision after another for the past 40 years. If GM had made the tough decisions (yes, standing up to to the UAW in certain cases) and had really paid serious attention to Japanese and German automakers as they caught up and surpassed GM in build quality/fuel efficiency/labor agreements/etc., then the government would not have been put in the position of having to bail GM out. Keep in mind also, that had John McCain been elected then he would be in the very same political pickle that Obama has been put in. Thousands of jobs, not just at GM but at hundreds of support companies, being lost every day, and the (voting) public crying out for something to be done about it. If GM were allowed to fail and go out of business people would wonder why the government didn't step in to prevent it. It is my opinion that Obama is between a rock and a hard place on much of this economic collapse that he inherited. If he "saves" GM he's wrong ("socialism") and if he sits idly by as GM blows away in the wind then he's wrong ("he doesn't care about American jobs"). McCain would be in the same lousy position and he would also have to step in and bail GM out. Of course the rhetoric would be different--spun differently so as to not look like "socialism." He'd be "saving jobs in America's heartland." Same result with different spin.

As for Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, aren't there some foreign car factories in his state? I'll have to look that up.

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
As for Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, aren't there some foreign car factories in his state? I'll have to look that up.

[/ QUOTE ]

From July 2008 Chatanooga Times Free Press: http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2...omotive-stake/

Looks like the South is finally winning the Civil War. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Here's an e-mail I received from Troy today --

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...f/masthead.jpg



Dear Glenn J. Richards,

First off, I'd like to thank you for being a GM customer. Your current and future business means a lot to us. Given all of the recent media coverage about GM, I am writing you today to address some questions you may have, and to assure you that we are here to stay and ready to serve you.

As you may know, GM is using an expedited, court-supervised process to accelerate the reinvention of our company. At the core of that reinvention is a commitment that we will put the customer first in all that we do — starting with great cars, trucks and crossovers, and the best sales and service experience possible. We want to earn your trust in several ways, including:

Your GM Warranty — Rest assured, we will honor the warranty commitment given to you at the time of your purchase. Our GM Dealers are very much open for business, and ready to meet your sales and service needs. And even though we are seeking buyers for our Saturn and Saab brands, have just announced the selection of a buyer for the HUMMER brand, and have decided to eventually phase out Pontiac, those dealerships also remain open and ready for service. The bottom line is your warranty will be honored and service will always be available through authorized GM retail facilities by GM-trained Goodwrench experts, with Genuine GM Parts on hand.

Your GM Card — Your GM Card Earnings1 will continue to be honored in accordance with the Program Rules. You can keep using your Card at more than 18 million outlets where MasterCard® is accepted, to accumulate Earnings and redeem them toward eligible, new GM vehicles.

Your Next GM Vehicle — At this, the most important moment in the history of our company, our dedication to high-quality, fuel-efficient and outstanding-value vehicles has never been greater. As I said before, our GM dealerships are very much open for business, and banks and credit unions are lending and continue to offer some of the best rates available to qualified buyers. To find information about GM dealerships in your area, please visit GM.com/vehicles/dealer.

Your General Motors — For over 100 years, GM has fueled America's passion for the automobile. Propelled by the spirit and commitment of our people, we will become the New GM, a company that makes Americans proud, and one that can compete successfully with anyone in the world. All of us at GM are confident that we will emerge a leaner, stronger company for you, offering the most compelling vehicles possible from our Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac brands. I invite you to stay up to date on our promising new future by visiting GMreinvention.com.

As I said at the outset, we are genuinely grateful for your business, and we hope that you'll stay with us. If you are considering buying a new vehicle, please review a special offer for our owners. Then, visit GM.com/owner to see how this can be combined with other current incentives — it's our way of saying "Thank You" for your ongoing support.

Sincerely,

Troy A. Clarke
Group Vice President
President, GM North America

1) Please see the Program Rules that are applicable to your Account for terms, conditions and limitations.

If you prefer not to receive any unsolicited marketing emails regarding GM vehicles, click here.

To review the GM Privacy Statement, click here.

For Copyright & Trademark Information, click here.

GM, the GM logo and the slogans, emblems, vehicle model names, vehicle body designs and other marks appearing in this email are the trademarks and/or service marks of General Motors Corporation, its subsidiaries, affiliates or licensors. ©2009 General Motors Corp. Buckle up, America!

General Motors Corporation
100 Renaissance Center, 482.A00.MAR
Detroit, MI 48265

DIW

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

I worked in GM Oshawa for 41 years and got a pretty good insight into the workings of the company at least at the factory level. If the company is ever to turn around successfully, there have to be a lot more changes that just Rick Wagoner. The whole mind set of management has to change or be changed. There were foremen/women in the truck plant who had no clue about what their workers did....even after having it explained to them. All some were good at was handing out written reprimands. Sad. I don't include the unions in this because they have not really been much of a factor for the last 15-20 years despite the public notion that they cary any clout. They were powerful at one time but not any more. I cringe at the thought of government and union control of the business. It won't work. Period. Canada has been far more into socialism than the US. The Canadian National Railway was a government run money loser for years. Now privately run, it makes money. There are other examples. The only reason that the socialism appears to work in Canada is because we are rich in natural resources and we have piggy backed on the American economy. Check out how the economy of Argentina faired over the last 40 years with dictatorship and socialism. Went bust. If GM survives, it will with an awful lot of continuing tax payer help. I'm certainly not counting on a GM pension.

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

I'm not defending the management or whoever you want to blame in GM,....I'm just concerned about saving the American Auto indutry in America ....
.GM shot the auto industry in the foot...I can see a headshot in the future under Government micro-managing by all the new owners in Washington...........
There is already a story about a Congressman wondering why a battery for the new Chevy Volt wasn't being purchsaed from his district...instead of buying it from South Korea....The only problem is the battery from South Korea worked...Now....It would be great if they could get the bugs out of the U.S. made battery and use that one..But..are the new CEO'S in Washington gonna lobby for their own districts just for the sake of votes and lobbyists to make cars that fit their own political agendas or are they gonna make decisions on the basis of helping the American Auto industry make great cars ...that's what has me concerned..
..I'd like to see if this Sen. Alexander can get something started to at least prevent those in Washington from excessive interference......

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Sorry Joe, I didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you.

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

C'mon......... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif........We're just kickin' the can...

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Roger that! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Speaking of Roger, Penske bought Saturn today. I think he made a good move and I hope he can market the brand better than GM did. All that hoopla in the '80s when they launched Saturn and then they basically ignored it.

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Some good points you and Keith T. made in some previous posts Bill. Easy to point fingers at Washington but what would we do if it was in our lap? May be another revolution in this country before long. When people are out of work and hungry ya never can tell!

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
Some good points you and Keith T. made in some previous posts Bill. Easy to point fingers at Washington but what would we do if it was in our lap?

[/ QUOTE ]

Let GM go chapter 11. Chevrolet would then emerge in private hands, be healthier, and build what they need to build and likely exactly what the core Chevrolet customer wants them to build.

Penske at the helm of Chevrolet would be a dream come true, but it is not to be.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Maybe you are right but scary. My faith in things to work out for the positive is getting dimmer anymore. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
Let GM go chapter 11. Chevrolet would then emerge in private hands, be healthier, and build what they need to build and likely exactly what the core Chevrolet customer wants them to build.

[/ QUOTE ]

In China and Mexico. Mostly China.

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
Penske at the helm of Chevrolet would be a dream come true, but it is not to be

[/ QUOTE ]

Penske's not that stupid. He bought Saturn, which could turn out to be the car company of the future. Small (small-ish) cars that are fuel-efficient with a motivated workforce. He's one shrewd businessman who sees a potential profit from what is probably the wave of the future: small economy cars. Yes, most of us here like pickups and SUVs and can't see ourselves in a Prius, but oil will only get harder to extract and more expensive, especially as the emerging economies of India and China, etc., demand cars and air conditioned homes as they work themselves up out of third-world poverty. I wish it weren't so but I think Penske sees the future in small cars and thus wrote the check. I hope he succeeds.

Oh, and Wangers in charge of a new, independant, smaller, performance-with-economy-oriented Pontiac would make for a nice dream too!

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Starting up overseas is what I am really afraid of. Sounds like 2 of the big 3 are on a mission to do just that. No Unions, no environment programs, no real benefits and especially very weak Human Rights and so forth. The USA really has no industry it seems anymore. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

I worked for Penske corporation for over 18 years and I know Roger will do everything in his power to make Saturn work but there will come a time that if it does not meet his expectations or make enough money he will pass it on to the next buyer. One thing I know for certain is that I will never buy another new GM or Chrysler product because what they did to their dealers is unforgivable. I work at a Toyota dealer and I expect more business because of all the customers that have a choice. They will not complain but they will just go somewhere else with their money. I would like to see how GM and Chrysler figured that in their recovery plan.
Mark Sheppard

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Mark...you work for a very well run dealership! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Bruce no question I was blessed to end up at the store I am at now but I think you got the better gig by looking at all the pictures.
Mark Sheppard

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
Starting up overseas is what I am really afraid of. Sounds like 2 of the big 3 are on a mission to do just that. No Unions, no environment programs, no real benefits and especially very weak Human Rights and so forth. The USA really has no industry it seems anymore. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

With the emergence of Communist China as a world manufacturing power and the ease of transporting goods made there to western consumers such as ourselves, we have essentially priced ourselves out of the world labor market. Those darn Chinese will work for a dollar an hour or less and do it seven days a week and 12 or more hours a day. If Chinese labor were to get uppity and start making demands (as American labor did decades ago) then the soldiers will be marched in to quash any discontent. Any pain-in-the-ass labor organizers will be arrested and imprisoned as enemies of the State (and perhaps killed) while hungry replacement workers outside the factory fence clamor to get in. You can bet that American corporations wish they could control their own production so efficiently. Yep, it's the wild, wild west over there and it's so cheap it hurts--that kind of cost control is the Holy Grail of every business school graduate. It's the race to the bottom and Chinese labor is basically the bottom at the moment. I've said it before: Communism was the scurge of the planet when we were kids but now American business has discovered the true value of the communist system and it is a completely captive, near-slave labor workforce.

Anyone think Hummers will be significantly cheaper when they're made in China? Probably not much, and the reduction in labor cost vs. American production will be pure profit for its Chinese owners. They'll be ramping-up GM production over there soon too. GM expansion in China is one of the factors in the bankruptcy reorganization.

If you are an American then look in the mirror and know this: You cost too much. That's what a majority of corporate cost control managers see when they look at you while you work.

Now I will step down off of my Saturday night soapbox.

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

And... if the main tenant of capitalism is profit, know that money will be invested in companies globally that will return the largest share holder/investor return without regard either intentionally or not, as to the effect it may have on the overall social/ economic wellfare of any country including this one. I'm not sure how you sustain the national security in the future especially as other countrys develop nuclear programs, and China moves ahead technologically. As they build their economy, and project their influence globally, it will be much harder to challenge their influence.
I believe in capitalism, but I wonder if there is no regard to the effect it may have when profits generated on a global scale, that really has no national allegence, will not be counter productive to we as a nation, and imperil our future national security. Will you send your children off to war to defend this country when the security issue is corporate, not national?
On dealer closings, All the agriculture co's been doing this for some time. John Deere told probably a third of it's dealers to consolidate last year. No choice. So now you may be 60 or more miles from your closest dealer.

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
On dealer closings, All the agriculture co's been doing this for some time. John Deere told probably a third of it's dealers to consolidate last year. No choice. So now you may be 60 or more miles from your closest dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]
They did that to our local John Deere dealer...told them that they either buy XXX amount of equipment, or they were pulling their license...was a family owned/operated dealership that was *very* successful, and was in business for a half century or more...sold to another JD dealer with locations all across the state, and they promptly closed it and took the license with it...

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Capitalism is good but global capitalism........ https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif will never be in our favor. I guess the Asians are going to build our high tech Hummers that we send over seas also. So when our Military rides in them, other enemy countries will know where to strategically shoot for easier penetration. And my wife and I have 2 sons in the Military? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/stupid.gif

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

The HumVees uses by the military was never built by GM. The hummers built by GM are way different.

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
Will you send your children off to war to defend this country when the security issue is corporate, not national?

[/ QUOTE ]

When I was flying missions during the '91 war* (Desert Storm) I knew full well that it was not to liberate poor little Kuwait so much as it was to re-stabilize the region's (the world's) oil business. I love driving cars and flying airplanes so I had no problem fighting for my right to do so. I would argue that the 2003 invasion of Iraq had strong corporate power influence. Think of it: You are an oil company senior executive and there's a chance that you can gain substantial access to and control of the world's second-largest oil fields--some have even said that Iraq's potential reserves are larger than Saudi Arabia's reserves. You'd be letting your shareholders down if you didn't secretly wish for an invasion to occur and plan for how to proceed once an invasion occurred. So with the provocation (and political cover) of 9/11 we almost immediately began looking at Iraq. Six years after the 2003 invasion the western oil companies have re-established their pre-1970s control (for the most part) over at least half of the oil reserves of the Middle East. Mission Accomplished? Perhaps.

I thank American soldiers, sailors and airmen every time I fill my tank. No kidding, I really do.

(*And missions from the UAE, Turkey and Saudi Arabia before and after Desert Storm.)

(Don't ask how much fuel the KC-135s had to dump during the early days of Desert Storm because of mix-ups in the frag (mission schedule), it would knock you right off of your chair.)

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

This is is purely hypothetical but would make lots of sense...
Penske bought the Saturn name... none of the manufacturing plants. On the same day Opel announced they were not going to import cars to the US. I think Penske is going to rebrand Opels imported as Saturns.

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
The HumVees uses by the military was never built by GM. The hummers built by GM are way different.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct,Humvees are made by AM General not GM.I think they are located in Indy somewhere.

The name Hummer was sold to GM.Now sold to China.

competely different.

BTW Gm has already been geared up to import cars from China in 18 Months.This has already been in the works in this global economy.

This gov intervention/bailout (what ever you want to call it) simply made their blessing public.

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Thanks for clearing the HumVee and Hummer differences. Do the HumVees use the GM Diesel though.

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for clearing the HumVee and Hummer differences. Do the HumVees use the GM Diesel though.

[/ QUOTE ]

They used to.....

Not any longer..
I'm not sure who supllies their powerplant.
I Would not be surprized if they produced their own Diesel engine.

I know its not Cat,Detroit or Cummins..

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

Now the Medium Duty Trucks are on the way out...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31170969/

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif
~ Pete

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

I think what you will find is that this is all a charade by the big three manufacturers to cover their exit from North America as a manufacturing base. All they can see is the cheap labour in China and the extra profits that can be made. They are just the tail end of the exodus. It has been said that Saturn has never turned a profit, even now when they are just a re-skinned version of another GM product. It's hard to see the Penske reasoning. Same with the Hummer, unless they plan on moving production to China or another cheap labour market.

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
Now the Medium Duty Trucks are on the way out...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31170969/

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif
~ Pete

[/ QUOTE ]
Boy, that sucks! One ramification I see from that is future HD engine development (or lack thereof)...previously & currently, the 4500/5500 trucks used the same powerplant as lighter duty 3500 trucks (8100 & Dmax, most recently)...but with 1 less model line utilizing a pretty specific & limited powertrain, it just makes it that more expensive for it to hang around...I could easily see GM bail on the 2500/3500 market, and basically hand it to FoMoCo (which does the majority of heavy fleet sales already).

There for a while there was talk of a 4.5L Dmax for the lighter GM trucks (like folks have been asking for for YEARS), but last I heard it was shelved...crazy thing is, it would have provided a significant increase in fuel economy & longevity...guess I'll just have to build my own?! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

What's next...sorry but here's a sad and somewhat blasphemous thought.https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif.

Being that Ford always claims to have the best selling trucks since it takes the combined sales of Chevy and GMC trucks to beat Fords total, will GM soon discontinue all Chevy trucks (Light duty included) and just sell GMC badged units at all dealers to knock Ford off the top? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/shocked.gif.

What, no more Chevy trucks, Apple pies and USA, they wouldn't...would they?.
Obviously nothing is safe, sacred or surprising w/ GM these days so who friggin' knows???
And if they try it, the way they're losing loyalty it may not work anyway?.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

Re: GM Deathwatch
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think what you will find is that this is all a charade by the big three manufacturers to cover their exit from North America as a manufacturing base. All they can see is the cheap labour in China and the extra profits that can be made. They are just the tail end of the exodus. It has been said that Saturn has never turned a profit, even now when they are just a re-skinned version of another GM product. It's hard to see the Penske reasoning. Same with the Hummer, unless they plan on moving production to China or another cheap labour market.

[/ QUOTE ]


Keith,

You took the words right out of my mouth.I'm willing to bet they are already geared up to build these trucks oversees.With NAFTA and the posibility of NWO why not?

The world is going to be a more efficient place.:)