Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to do?
 

I've got a '67 RS convertible that I've done the engine/trans/rear on, and took it to a body shop for the body and paint and interior. Now, it's almost done and I have a problem, and I'm trying to decide if I'm being too picky about the importance of this problem (or to be more clear; the likely outcome anyway, with the shops "plans" to remedy the problem).

The shop painted the car 6 or 8 months ago. I had them paint it black and put three coats of clear. It looked good as far as I recall, but then the interior was put in, the new top was put on and some work here and there. Over this time, such places they took it to, put carpet over the side of the car when they were working on the top. The mechanic brushed up against the side and caused a scratch and so on.

Overall, there are some pretty significant scratches now, which they said "should come out" when they "buff the car". Some of these appear to be deep in the clear, or through the clear into the base paint. It seems that almost all over the car, there are swirls from the buffer or when they polished, some dull and scuff areas as well. I mean, all over.

My father owned a body shop for 30 years, and I'm going to talk to him about this and see if I can get him out with me to look at it. However, in the meantime, I'd like some input. I'm trying to be reasonable about this, but I just wonder how reasonable it would be to tell these guys to reshoot it. Take off all of the clear, reshoot it and apply the three layers again (since I paid for this).

Obviously they shouldn't need to buff or polish the thing, since it should be a new paint job and three coats of clear, but since it was painted so long ago and they've been working on it over that time, it's gotten scratched. In this case, is just buffing it out a reasonable solution? I don't see how all of these dull/scuff areas, swirls and small scratches, let alone the prominent scratches are going to go completely away. Also, this will be the third or fourth time he'll either be buffing or polishing the car. If this is the fourth time he's buffing it, it's GOT to be burning through the clear, I'd imagine.

Besides, when I pointed out all of these issues last night to them, was when I was supposed to be picking up the car (since it was supposed to finally be done). So, that means after the third time he's buffed and polished it, is what I saw was *after* that, and it didn't look good. His defense was that "It's a black car, it's going to show scratches, that's just pretty much how it is". Well, *I* didn't put the scratches in, even if they are fine scratches and even if they can be buffed out.

Perhaps it's just sloppy work with buffing it, but I'm actually concerned that this guy is buffing it out each time and not even wet sanding the scratch prior to buffing. Again, a new paint job, should look _new_ and you shouldn't have to keep fixing the issues, but this is basically all over the car. I'm unsure what to do.

Anyone have any experience with this? I just don't see these guys being receptive to my demand that they remove the clear, re-shoot it and then reapply three new coats of clear. However, I'm not going to accept shoddy work either. Does this sound like a matter where I should just let them buff and polish (yet again) and see how it turns out, or should I not waste any time and just explain the situation and my dissatisfaction and tell them to not waste time (maybe explain why) and effectively force them to do this right, but reshooting it?

I mean, considering they wanted me to pick it up last night, this IS how they felt comfortable releasing the car to me in this condition. The scratch the mechanic put in, he said happened just that day and he didn't see it (it wasn't there earlier that day), okay, but how about all of the other light scratches and scuff marks? They just plan to "buff them out"? Some of the light scratches, maybe, but I just have doubts it'll look like a new paint job. It'll look like a "newer" paint job with some swirls, as far as I can tell.

I'm trying to be reasonable, and I don't expect perfection, but this was enough to trouble me, and their methods of remedying the existing problem doesn't seem like the best method, especially considering that I paid for the body work, complete paint job and three coats of clear, only to deal with this now. I realize that if I'm bothered and unsatisfied, that's probably a good indication of the situation, but I want the car back (it's been way too long -- they've had it since May 16th, 2007!), and I'm concerned about what will happen if I demand it be repainted.

I can just see having to call a tow truck and the police if they aren't receptive, and I only owe a final balance of about $2,000, which I don't know if it's enough to pay someone else to take it down to the base, reshoot it and put the three coats of clear. I certainly won't cause an issue for these people if they do it right, but I feel a little stuck and am looking for any suggestions or insight.

I also realize it's difficult to determine by my words without seeing pictures illustrating the problem, but just going by what I'm saying, if there are swirls and scuffs and scratches that aren't coming out and the paint job doesn't look new, you can then see where I'm coming from and I'm hopeful for some advise based on those variables. I'm aware I'm mainly venting here and I probably know the answer.

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to do?
 

I'd like to respond to this, and will later, but I have to take my daughter out for lunch.
Don't lose all hope though!

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to do?
 

i have painted a few cars , and that is not satifactory , you dont have to remove the clear they can paint right over it with the proper prep. time and it will be more than satifying to you with results because it will have a few more coats of clear , it should make it appear deeper.

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

1randy, prep the clear on it now and paint over it, and then apply more clear on top? I'm not sure how that works. I used to work in my father's body shop, but I only did prep work, detailing, assembly and disassembly, so I don't know all of the ins and outs of matters like this, but I know that not a single car ever left our shop looking like this.


I already have three coats on top of the base, too much clear could cause cracking, so you're saying to prep it by getting down into the clear now, paint over it and then apply more clear. Wouldn't that create a problem? Would it be a proper base (the currently clear coat(s)) to paint over when re-shooting it? I can ask my father about that to be sure, but I just didn't think that would be a desirable method? I could be wrong. Either way, it does probably need to be reshot entirely.

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to do?
 

I had the same problem when I had the vinyl top put on my 69 Chevelle, when I took it to the ulpholstery shop, the paint was perfect and when I went to pick it up, there were fine scratches all over the quarter's on both sides. The scratches did buff out completely, but I would not let them do it, a friend of mine details cars for a living, and is one of the best I know with a buffer. If the guy who buffed it before couldn't get all the scratches out, there is no way I would let him buff it again, what makes you believe he could do an excellent job the 3rd time.

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

Exactly, if he didn't do a good job the first time, second or third, let alone have the respect, caring or capacity to even "recognize" the problem that existed when I looked at it, I don't have faith he can buff it out. There's still the question of *if* he was, how it would actually look, and I wonder how much of the clear would be burned through at that point? I suppose it would be a question of caring about it or not at that point, rather than having someone reshoot the entire thing. The problem is the scratches and scuffs and swirls that might be deeper than he can buff out, but like you said, even if they could be, _he_ is not _able_ to, in which case someone else would maybe.

I do think they could prep and reshoot it all and reclear it all, and it would be fine. However, I'm not sure they will. I don't know if they'll have to, but I just get the impression that they will. My father will say one way or the other, and if that's not good enough for them to agree, if they are still proud of the work, I'll get other body shops to say so, as well as some members of the classic muscle car club I belong to.

They still might refuse and say we're all being picky or they might accuse me of trying to get out of paying them, but if they did the job they were supposed to, I would pay them no problem. Therefore, I'll offer them to re-do it right, and then I'll pay them. That's all I want. The thing that bugs me so badly, is that they should know this and it's supposed to come out of their shop with a perfect paint job (or close to it). I don't like all of this re-fixing the scratches and I just foresee a problem, but maybe it'll work out... and maybe they can buff them out (someone else, not this same guy).

I just have doubts. I'm hoping for the best, but I also won't accept shoddy work... and I'm not going to allow them to keep stalling on this car either. This is very frustrating and it allows the body shop to put people into a situation where they feel like their car could be basically held hostage if they don't pay for poor quality work (and that's not going to happen here, but I can't wait months more either). Ugh!

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

I have been restoring cars for 30 years and it changes all the time with the paint products, but rule of thumb is if your nail catches the scratch it cannot be polished out its too deep. Polishing the car multiple times yes does take off material but it depends what type of pad he is using, wool foam, etc. If you are going to repaint the car of course all the prep, washing, prep-sol etc, I would block the car with 600, 800 wet sand paper try not to cut through the clear, address the scratches and reprime those areas with a good 2k primer ( I use Glasurit products in my shop ) block out thse areas spray some color and then clear, you have such a good foundation with the material on the car and after blocking and new paint your car will be laser straight. As far as the swirl marks I am the owner and one thing I enjoy doing is wet sanding and polishing, if you do not know how to polish it will look like sh*t, I know people will comment on this but my painter lays it out like glass, after I bake it for an hour we let it sit for a day or so then I start blocking with 800, 1000, 1200, 1500 and believe me its straight and flat !!! I start with a wool cutting pad and 3M compound just a quick cut, then a 3M white foam with 3M compound, green foam pad with compound and then a black foam pad with 3M finesse and then finish with a good hand glaze, most of the finish glazes I use are Griots Garage I feel they are the best. The reason for swirl marks are the polisher is held at too much of an angle leting the edge build-up with heat, you do not want to be flat just a slight angle for air circulation and I throw a sprinkle of water while I am polishing, never clean-up all the compound or glaze with the machine always wipe off the residue with a soft cloth and never polish from one product onto the other always start with a clean surface and clean the sling off the next panel before polishing. Paint and finish prep is what we are tops above the rest, 2 cars at Peeble Beach 100 points each as well as untold Best Paint at Concours Shows and National Shows. Good luck I hope the easier way works out ! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

if they already sanded and buff it three times there isnt going to be to much material on it , so you can just reclear it . and i would have somebody else buff it this time. i usualy put 5-6 coats of clear on my paint jobs just to make sure there is enough there to correct any mistakes i could have made , but im not a profesional , , i have painted 40-50 cars .

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

BergerZ28 has pretty much covered what I wanted to say, and said it better.

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

Yeah, that's the thing, I don't know if the guy just used compound and tried to buff out the scratches, or if he actually color sanded before buffing (at least depending on the depth of the scratch). I don't mind doing some of this myself, but I shouldn't have to fix the work left by them, when I paid them for a new paint job. It indeed could be (at least partially) a matter of the guy not using the right buffing compound, or he just sucks... and someone else could potentially remedy the problem for the most part with the swirls and smaller/lighter scratches.

But, I just worry the clear is getting pretty burned through by the fourth buffing session, especially with the swirls I saw -- which worry me that this guy is just camping out on one spot while the buffer is rotating, and it's sitting there burning through the clear, instead of removing light scratches. This whole mess makes me sick. There are some scratches that are pronounced enough, that I do believe I can catch it with my fingernail. Again, my understanding is that 3 coats of clear is pretty much the max without risking cracks later down the road, and that should be enough (maybe not for these guys though. :-) Had I known this would potentially come up (them storing the car in a dusty area, not covering it to protect THEIR hard work), I'd have gotten involved and made time to prep the damn car in the first place (I can do that), let alone to protect the paint job.

Now it might be in a situation where it's going to need to be re-shot, and if so, they should realize it was their responsibility and take the time to re-do it on their dime. Maybe they will? But I doubt they'll be so receptive. I'm unsure what they fail to understand that you pay for a new paint job, it should be new, and not need so many buffs or polishes to try and cover things (because I understand that could easily prove to be a temporary solution and it could start showing again -- depending, I understand that depends on some variables, too).

Part of this seems simple and obvious to me and I could do a better job myself, but other aspects and I'd be in over my head at this time -- and I paid them to do this job with quality, so I don't plan on learning to fix their poor workmanship after the fact. They will have to remedy it, and I do hope I'm exaggerating the significance of the scratches and depth in my mind and it'll not be so bad. I'll have to see what my dad says about that, and remind him it's been buffed three times already, with a fourth time impending, which has got to say something. I don't know what base (wax, silicone, etc.) that the compound they are using even is, so there's a lot of things to consider. I wish I knew more about this, but if I had, I'd probably not have hired someone. Thanks for the replies!

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

Thanks, that's pretty much the type of stuff my father was rattling off on the phone just by what I was saying (before he has seen it) and it was too much for me to commit to memory, and involved aspects I either am not yet qualified to do, or things I refuse to do when I paid these guys to do it. In the end, I want it to be what I paid for, and I don't mind playing a part in that, even with some effort, but that opens other scenarios I've yet to feel out with how receptive these guys will be or not. Thanks.

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

I figured I should post an update. I picked up the car about two or so hours ago. I ended up just taking the car and not paying the balance and they agreed (but I'm still in a bad spot, as good as an outcome as that may sound like). I explained the car needed to be reshot, he didn't disagree, but I'm pissed he tried to ignore it hoping I'd settle for the condition it was in. I found two or three significant runs in the paint, parts where a mirror was mounted at one point that bled through the paint, a bunch of scratches and chips all over the car... and, get this, the driver and passenger side windows that were perfect now have BIG, DEEP scratches in them and they're going to need to be replaced!

This guy had it at a stereo shop to do the wiring for the hideaway headlights (he claimed the motors were bad and they'd test them or get them to work -- I had a whole new wiring harness, motors, etc. installed before I took the car to them (I had opened and closed them maybe 4-8 times total before taking the car to them). Anyway, these people were supposed to fix the reverse lights and blinkers as well (the hazard worked fine)). I told him when his own "mechanic" was working on it, that if he couldn't figure out a simple wiring on this car, I would look at it, or have the guy I had do it originally look at it, and to call me and let me know. Two weeks of him not answering the phone or returning my calls, I find it's at that place.

That place was a real shop, had people answering the phone and I could get a hold of them to find out what was going on. When these guys lost my stereo, I got a CD player for the car and asked if it would fit. He said it would, but when he took it to these guys, he told them "Do what you have to to get this working with this CD player". When I talked to the shop, I asked what they were doing, where they were at and what they still needed to do (as usual, I'm told two days they'd have it, and it was 2 weeks), they told me they fixed the headlight motors and the turn signals and backup lights didn't work (yet the hazards did). They said they were going to cut into the dash to put the CD player in and make a wood bezel custom.

I said I never authorized that and don't want anyone cutting into it and wood would like ghetto -- he agreed and said he'd not do that to his classic truck either. By then, all of the electrical was supposed to be done and I told them I didn't want to wait another week or more for a stereo, especially since I don't want anything cut (I was told it would fit, but since it won't after all, I'll decide what to do about that later). I told them to stop work and tell the autobody shop to pick it up. They did and the guy picked it up the next morning. I never heard anything from the autobody shop this entire time, no messages returned just asking where they are at. I left a message after getting pissed off and said "I never authorized or said to cut into the dash, I specifically asked you if it would fit and you said it would--DO NOT tell people to just "do whatever" to MY car!". I knew that'd make him less likely to call because he never wanted to deal with their screw-ups and just preferred to avoid me and make the problem worse by dragging it out.

They said they had to replace the brake cylinders and bleed them a couple of weeks ago and said it was done. Yet, I pick up the car, we agree I don't pay the measly $1,500 balance on this $16K job I've had them do, because of the deep scratches in the windows they put in (this is quite bad, by the way), the fact they lost the original stereo and bezel/face plate, and the fact they never got the scratches out that I knew were too deep. He said it would take two months to reshoot the car and I said I'm not waiting, how about I pay you nothing and take the car away like it is now.

Well, that sounded good enough to be done with these people (I didn't have a choice, I wasn't leaving it sitting there and these guys have no definite plans for when they'll even have a booth!), and yet, as I was driving this home, I found the dash/instrument panel didn't light up, the headlights are not aligned (at least the doors open on the headlights), the brakes either were never fixed or they were never bled (I thought the car wasn't going to stop several times on the way home, in the dark!), and the idle is set really high because the mechanic sucks and doesn't know how to tune it (it ran great when I took it in almost TWO years ago!), and as I was trying to get the gauges to light up, there's a short when I turn it counter-clockwise and the interior under dash light comes on and nothing else.

The wipers didn't go on (luckily it wasn't raining), the reverse lights don't work. When I tried to use the turn signal, either right or left, it takes some good amount of force to get it to switch (even though they don't work, I was hoping 1/2 way home that maybe I just didn't see it and it's better than no signal at all and I was already in the thick of it with no good way to pull over). The car was also surging. I told them to drop the tank and clean it before filling it and they said they would, but I am having my doubts, I don't know if they even drained it, but I doubt they dropped it and did it right, so there's likely crap sucked into the carb jets.

There's more, but I am too annoyed to get into all of the details. The paint looks fine 5 or so feet away, but there's way too many problems with it. I paid for a new paint job, and I get this shoddy quality, right along with all of the mechanical and electrical problems, and all I was able to do was to tell them that I'm not paying the small $1,500 balance. I assumed they fixed the brakes, which could add a few hundred more I'd have to had to pay anyway, which they knew they couldn't tack onto the balance, since I was so far in the hole if I had to have someone else reshoot it. It didn't sound like they'd want to even reshoot it, and even if they did agree, who knows how long it'll be, even if they get the paint booth. No way are these guys going to last anyway, especially with this lack of quality, the huge delays and avoiding customers for weeks and months at a time. People only keep them in business with their cars being there, because people feel trapped since they'd gain more by waiting than by pulling their car out (even if they owed nothing) and having someone else start over.

So, I'm annoyed. I have to take my car back to the mechanic I trust (the guy I TRIED to get the autobody shop to contact, but I think he was bartering trades for work with whomever would accept the offer, so no way would they hire a real good person (or do any actual hiring), which just make things take longer in the end and even more people working on it that really didn't have reason to care about quality). Just scummy business practices. So, I'll have to pay this mechanic to fix all of the issues they've created, tune it, etc. and then get quotes from body shops I can trust to see how much they'd charge to resolve the current issue, prep, repaint and reclear the car (3 coats again, since that's what I paid for and waited for), and then figure out the difference and take these idiots to small claims court.

I'm certain they'll be out of business by then, but I'm going to get the quotes early next week and file a report with the California Bureau of Automotive Repair and get a case started and start the small claims suit. Better to file suit while there's a chance they'll still be in business. I had originally hoped to chalk it up to a bad experience and pay another $500-1,000 more than I planned for the difference it'd take over the final balance to have someone else do it, but with all of these other problems, I just can't accept that big of a loss. I'll be down anywhere from $3,000 to $6,000, depending on what all needs to be done with the mechanical, electrical, new glass, stereo replacement (that doesn't require cutting into the dash), the speakers for the stereo that are also lost, and then the re-paint process (fixing, prepping, painting and re-clear for max clear so I CAN buff out small scratches and have that deep look to the paint). This sucks. Anyway, that's the update (or the situation and the plan). At least I got it back and out of their shop so I can worry about one less thing and the rest of the situation is pretty standard on the resources I have available to satisfy me. Live and learn.

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

Sorry to hear about the trouble. You may want to try taking the car to a detail shop to buff the paint before having it repainted. If they were not sanding the car before buffing and not causing any hot spots, the clear loss is minimal. Also, if you want coats of clear you should apply 5 or 6. By the time you color sand it will take at least a few coats off. On a smaller car like a Camaro or Nova I usually end up with about a pint left of the gallon of clear. That works out to about a gallon and a quarter of shootable material. Its not how many coats or the amount of material sprayed that counts in the end, its the way it is layed down and how much is lost in the air. Again, sorry to hear about the trouble. I not a lawyer but I doubt you will have much recourse with the shop since you took the car back at a discount. Do you have anything in writing as to the reason you took the car back without paying the balance?
By the way, you are not alone. I have NEVER got a car back from a paint shop exactly as promised. I rarely use the same shop twice as the quality goes down as they realize they can walk all over you.


Jason

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

Well, this wasn't about the paint not being exactly as promised, it's that its got too many problems to even try and list here. I should have legal recourse, because I didn't have a choice -- they didn't have a booth and said it would be at least another two months to reshoot the car, and they had it for 22 months, when their estimate was 3 months in mid-May of 2007. I think the judge would agree that it was unreasonably long, since there's no reason for the huge difference (the shop has none). They lost items, damaged other items, and the paint job I had paid for was not performed.

They didn't live up to their end of the contract (I have absolute proof of this, it's not just my own interpretation) and I offered every means for resolution, but they weren't going to replace the windows they damaged, the lost stereo, etc. However, before I open a report with the Cal BAR, I will most certainly have a list of repair estimate costs for them to agree to pay -- I will give them a chance.

It would be different in the paint was simply just not perfect, but this is in sub standard condition by a long shot, not including the fact they failed to put the car back together to be mechanically sound, the electrical fails for a lot of things, the glass, the stereo, the parts they damaged that I brought in to them new with no damage, the brakes, and on and on. I'm pretty sure I have a case.

As for the clear, the scratches and other issues run to the base coat and to the metal, so it's not going to buff out. I understand that some people can't properly detail a car, but these problems aren't going to be able to be buffed out. If they could be, I'd not have such a big problem with it. Also, they'd never have agreed that it needed to be re-shot. The fact that they didn't demand I pay the final balance is just them admitting their work sucked and wasn't what I paid for, if it says anything, not including the additional problems I found as I was driving it home.

Anyway, I get what you mean about the clear, it's not how many layers, it's about how thick the layers are as well, how much is actually on the car, etc. Four layers of clear might not be as thick as one or two that someone else shot, if they skimped (intentionally or not) and just sprayed it with light coats (which is what it appears they did). I asked them if I needed to sign anything or if there was anything else when I was about to drive off with the car and he said no, so I didn't ever sign anything saying the work was complete, and in fact I told him specifically to that effect that there were a lot of issues that needed to be resolved and asked if "in those two months from now" if it was something they would be willing to resolve if I brought the car back.

I asked if he'd reshoot it and reclear for the final balance if I decided to do that, and he said he would, but didn't know when he could and it would "be a while". They haven't set up their paint booth yet and they don't even have the permit to do it, and it's not an easy thing to do (it's very difficult to get a permit to run a paint booth at a location where there isn't already one, so he better hope it's zoned for it, or he's screwed). The booth he said he was renting is at a shop that's going out of business.

So, in the end, through absolutely no fault of mine, they failed miserably to perform the work as outlined on the work order and caused numerous additional problems and damages that I'm going to have to get fixed -- and they will pay. If they don't, I will sue them in small claims and I will win (I have no doubt about it). If it ends up being a difference of only $1,000 or less, I might just call it a loss, but over that, especially in the $2-4K range, I'm not going to take a loss.

I paid them to perform work that they didn't perform, they knew they did terrible work and it was worse than even I thought when I picked up the car (they never mentioned any of these other issues and said everything was working -- it wasn't). No freaking way would I lose. I do understand they may be shut down and moved away by the time I take them to court or win, let alone for them to have the money to pay me when they lose, but luckily it's not too much to file.

I also understand that just because you're being fair and doing the right thing, and even if you're right, it doesn't mean you'll win, but I just don't see how I couldn't. I'm taking the car to the same mechanic that worked on these very same things (to a point) before these fools got a hold of it and screwed everything up. What a mess. Oh, and ironically, this is pretty funny, I noticed on their new business cards today, on the back, it says "COMPLETE PAIN STARTING AT $500". "Pain"? That's is one hell of an ironic typo!

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

I remember vividly,back in the 1985,watching one of our local Chevy dealerships have an overly aggressive delivery prep assistant single handedly scratch the clear coat on a bunch of new arrivials for sale.
He was an older guy too which surprised me as I thought he would've had experience of what he was doing,and even raised on lacquer as the BC/CC was fairly new to the public and apparently this guy as well.
His job was to lightly wash and polish all that came off the ramp trucks,but he musta been using the wrong power tool,pad,compound and mentality altogether.
He stood over each and put so much pressure on them,that you immediately saw the swirls and scratches before he was done.Especially on the cars with soft plastic front air damns like Monte Carlos and Camaros.
He looked like he didn't care,and quite honestly I blamed the Mgmt. moreso,as absolutely no one was overseeing him,or checking his work.
I walked up to a few cars he finished,and my finger nails would actually get caught in the circular patterns he ground in.It was a real shame to see IROCS,Vettes,Z24's and Super Sports that way especially,and once I called the Service advisor over,he halted the employee from doing anymore damage,and reprimanded the Bodyshop manager.
I won't name the dealer,but they didn't have a very good Team..

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

That reminds me, I forgot to mention that a good portion of the swirls did come out when he did the final detail, but a good amount of them remained (especially the deep straight one's when someone was putting too much pressure on it). Unfortunately the more severe aspects that go beyond that made me forget to mention it.

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

Well, the car is in worse condition than I thought. I found chips showing rust underneath, and the paint came right off when I flicked it with my finger. I found another area that was down to the base primer and just ran my fingernail against it lightly to feel how deep it was, and more paint just came right off as I ran my nail over it. I have 227 images I've taken showing all of the problems and I have a list of all of the issues with the running of the car.

I'm going to spend the next hour or two compiling a big, detailed list and getting the images uploaded all onto a web page outlining the issues (I'll post a link here for people to see what I'm talking about). Following that, I'll email the body shop with the link encouraging them to read it. I'll then call him (from another phone line, so he doesn't know it's me, or else he won't answer or ever call me back) telling him to check his email.

I'll then let him know my intention and that I'll be filing a report with the California Bureau of Automotive Repair (where their license is currently in a delinquent state), and that I will file in small claims court for the max ($5K, I believe), because it's going to cost that much to have it done right and fix what these crooks tried to pull off. I'll also print an entire hard copy of the page and snail mail it to them.

At this point, for the steps to resolve the paint issue, it's no longer going to just be a prep and repaint, but to actually strip it down to the metal because they painted over rust. I found a lot of major runs and some holes (yes, holes). This car had only a few small rust areas on it, and it makes me really uneasy to see that they just sprayed paint over an area where the rust is flaking off. I'm so angry, but I'll do everything by the book and ensure I have a solid case (which I am sure I do).

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

With all of the issues, it's incredibly difficult to chose only 10 or 15 pictures, and I don't want a huge page. I'll likely have a summary of the issues and try and cover everything in a couple of paragraphs and the most 10-15 offensive issues the car has, and then have a link that goes to a page with all of the images for reference and documentation. This way, no one following the link here or the shop, will have to be overwhelmed with it, but the information will be there if someone needs or wants to look more into it. It should be easy enough to outline the problems and not have to go into a big story about it to explain what happened, because they know, I know, and everyone on the forums I've posted this issue to also know that.

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

I know it's long, but it's hard to document something and get your point across and outline all of the relevant details to get that point across, but I was able to get the images small, so the entire page of images are only 23 megs.

The page is at: http://www.chatbase.com/camaro/

That is basically what I sent to them. Yeah, I know it's wordy and long, but I didn't want to leave anything out. And that was without going into the rest of the stuff we all know from my previous posts above (and they already know it). I'll see how it goes. They'll either settle, lose the suit (no way could they win with all of the additional evidence and images I have), or they'll be out of business (hopefully not before I recoup my losses to be able to get some money for the amount I'm going to have to pay a body shop to do it right).

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

Tim,


I'm sorry this happened to you. I do not think you are in as strong as a position as your think you are. Most runs look to be on the rockers. The hole you mention looks to be for non RS trim. Unless you have clear before pictures, it will most likely be your wood against theirs. As far as the time goes. You could have pulled it as soon as they did not meet their 3 month agreement. I am not beating you up. I have just been in your position MANY times before. IT SUCKS. I hope you come to a good conclusion.

Best of luck to you,

Jason

Re: Newly painted w/ scratches and swirls. What to
 

There is no before picture to compare it to. I took the car in to them to do the complete body and paint. I have a mechanic that did all of the other work before for other reasons and can attest to and prove that the things that they didn't put together right with the electrical or engine were indeed working fine. The fact there is paint over rust and runs and scratches deep into the paint is all the proof I should need.

I paid them for a complete body and paint job, rust cure, etc. for "show car condition". So, there's no relevance to someone's word over someone else's, this is how I picked up the car two days ago, in THIS condition. Going back and thinking I could pull the car out when they didn't meet their estimated deadline might be regretful, but it's not a legal grounds for them to get away with it. They were always several thousand dollars ahead of me, where if I pulled it out, it would have cost me $10K+ if I took it to someone else. I'm certain they operated like that intentionally.

I realize that some of the holes are for other trim, but that one hole is larger than it should be, it should be a small pin hole like the driver side is, and not be pushed in/dented. I realize that people are encouraging me to consider the fact that even if you're right in court, it doesn't mean you are going to win, but when you take a car to someone and they charge you to perform the service and don't end up performing said service, and manage to damage and break things all over the car in the process, there's just no way I could lose.

I might not get enough to pay for someone else to do it in full, but I would win. As I said, this was a complete restore, so there is no debate about what it looked like before, this is just the result (and that is the problem). I don't think it's legal for body shops to just commit fraud by not providing the service they charged for. Painting over rust and trying to fill in problems with mismatching paint, that's pretty intentional and I'd label that as fraud. Additionally, their Bureau of Automotive Repair license to operate for the state of California is delinquent and their other shop shows as expired (some other place took over that shop).

As much as I regret not just taking it earlier, you have to consider the work they did and how they didn't do anything they were paid to do (I get that one's determination of good work can differ, but not covering things up and causing damage and for a bunch of things on your car to no longer work). That's what law suits are for, but hopefully it won't come to that. I see people often sort of have a fatalistic view on courts offering a remedy when something like this happens, but I know I definitely have a good case.

PS: Also note, that the runs aren't all on the rockers and aren't in locations where trim could have covered it. Also, that hole shouldn't be so large that I can put my pinkie into it. It was difficult to get all of these things to show up on camera, is the main problem. If you saw this in person, you'd better understand. Truly, the least of my concerns and problems with this are the "runs" in the paint (that is just one of a lot of problems). Again, this was a case where they charged me to provide a service and do specific work. They didn't and tried to cover it up. I believe that is a form of auto body fraud. I mean, you can't just charge someone $10-15K for body work, and basically just spray over all of the rust and problems you were paid to fix.

You'd have to refund the money or do the job. Since they can't do the job (aren't able or willing), they need to give me at least some portion of my money back, and I'll have someone else do it. It's not legal for them to just keep the money and claim they think it's good enough, when it's not what they promised (showroom/car show quality), and there's no denying it's definitely far from that.