Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

In years past, I had seen footage of Amy putting her hands
on potential bidders. No one complained about that. Oh,
perhaps a wife or two.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
The buyer told me the seller would not talk to him about documentation.

[/ QUOTE ] If he had it, why wouldnt he talk about it??? Im sure if it was a legit car it would certainly never go for 60K . Nor would the seller let it go for 60K when it previously did almost 300K. Cmon....

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

I too spent the weekend in Arizona.I spent wednesday and thursday at Barretts and Friday at RM and again Saterday at the circus/Barretts.Wed and Thurs nothing but junk period. Friday I got a lesson in Class and professionalism at RM and Saterday was incredible. First of all It seemeed like someone had called the used car hemi factory and placed the largest order in history for Hemi cars. I believe they ran 29 hemi cuda;s It looked like a clearence sale., but still I have to say for the 70;s hemi cuda;s the prices were very consistant and quite strong. Most of them sold for betwwen $240000 and $260000 plus the juice except for some 74 mile survivor that went for $500000 a 70 roadrunner coupe went for $210000 while a 70 roadrunner convert only brought $200000 a hemi 4-door brought $600000 being a one of three, which I thought was incredible later in the day is when things seemed to go South for our mossed prized 71 hemi cuda;s two went off'' not really the two of the best examples so it is really hard to gauge the market by these. A 4-speed $480000 and auto non build board plain jane ev2 $375000 plus the juice. In my opinion the worst thing is that they saved some of the best mopars for after ten oclock when nobody was left there so again impossible to gauge the market a Hemi Daytona and Superbird which they made the owner package $790000 plus.The one thing I can say is it was obvious something seemed to be going on with very fast hammering on some cars being sold and alot of odd retractions on bids on others that made you have to wonder who the bidders and buyers these cars were comming from and going too''In my opionion any one who didn;t do well here had only Barrett and themselves to blame.Anyone who would take there more than $200000 plus mopars and let these people run it a no reserve shows you don;t have enough respect in these cars yourself., and letting them run so many on you shows they have no respect for these cars or you as a client.The thing Barretts doesn;t get is the cars are the Stars not the Venue, and the TV they think they are what brings the prices and the people you and your cars have nothing to do with it. Steve Davis didn;t take his sun glasses off the whole day and night Saterday. I think He thinks He;s Steve McQeen'' Not Steve Davis. this is a going to be a very hard lesson for some of these guys who didn;t do well, but NEVER place a RARE and DESIRABLE MOPAR in SUCH a NO RESERVE CIRCUS like that again because you and Barretts Hurt the market the CARS and the reputation of RARE CAR COLLECTING in General By the Way RM SOLD the 71 Hemi Cuda convertible with reserve for 2.2 Million plus the juice On Friday. Barretts also sold a GTO RAM 1V Judge White and Black 4- speed very well documented but the owner who was honest with every one and said the car had been completely replaced from the cowl back by a dooner GTO Still sold for $117000 plus the juice

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Carroll Shelby hung the moon but his reputation ain't all that swell either. <----somebody had to say it!

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe it was shortly after the boom started, maybe late 80's or early 90's CS claimed to have found 10 or so Cobra's or Shelby Mustangs in a warehouse that were never completed. I owned a '66 Shelby Must. at the time and was a member of the (just found my Shelby American World Registry hardback dated 1987) Shelby American Automobile Club. I recall that incident causing quiet a stink with these guys as it devalued (or would have) their cars and made their "hero" look like a first class crook.

I recall CS and the club being very close prior to that incident but you don't see the SAAC and CA arm in arm anymore. At least I don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the answer Ray.

I remember a dust-up over the coil-spring Cobra frames with "unassigned" VIN numbers that were found--maybe that's the same situation you described.

Please pardon me if I've misunderstood the situation, but I would have no problem at all if Shelby had found stored cars or parts and wanted to sell them as real. Yeah, I guess it'd be a bummer if such a find de-valued my Shelby* but such is life. Is Shelby supposed to destroy such finds in order to preserve the value of other people's Shelby cars? If Joel Rosen found a dozen Phase III '69 Camaros in storage that he had forgotten about would he have to keep them in storage or destroy them so as to preserve the value of existing cars in other people's ownership? Not trying to pick a fight, I'm just curious as to why it's a problem for Shelby to come up with continuation cars/parts, no matter how he came up with them. I mean, it's his name and his cars and his design and his legend. Without Carroll Shelby all those SAAC guys would be collecting some other car--and perhaps crying foul over the actions of whoever invented it.

Carroll Shelby has had his Cobra image stolen for profit for decades. Think of all the kit Cobra rip-offs over the past 30 years and Shelby had to fight them all over trademark rights and name rights. I don't begrudge him for his defense of his name and the design of his cars. Maybe he went along with what some people feel is a shady deal but much worse has been perpetrated against Shelby over the years. I don't look at Carroll Shelby as having "hung the moon" but he sure as hell beat Ferrari's ass in 1965. For that alone he is a real American hero in my book.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

*I don't own a Shelby product. Wish I did!

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

I just went back to the spring Mecum auction and found the L89 Chevelle that sold there. I was misinformed the car at Mecum had white interior with a white stripe.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't look at Carroll Shelby as having "hung the moon" but he sure as hell beat Ferrari's ass in 1965. For that alone he is a real American hero in my book.
That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
*I don't own a Shelby product. Wish I did!


[/ QUOTE ]

99% would agree !!! A true legend

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

This was my first, and probably last, trip to BJ. I was not that impressed with the cars as I could not really get close to them since I was not a bidder. I do have to admit that it was worth the price of admission just to see the women. Never seen so many young, attractive females hanging all over so many old geezers, wonder what the attraction was??

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

All the cars are parked under various tents for public viewing during the week, with a few exceptions. They are also viewable in the staging lanes as they enter the auction tent. A thorough inspection of vehicles is not pratical however.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

I did not see any documentation and the buyer did not see any. So I do not know if it even exsits. The buyer knew nothing about Chevelles or the car. He like it and when the bidding droped from 70k to 60k he decided to jump in. He also was from FL and knew the seller (buy back?). He wanted know about any books to help him learn more and indicated he wanted to keep it. For the condition of the car it seemed like a good buy. It had some issues and I am no expert, but they were minor.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

CJ - Being very interested in those cars 20 years ago and a member of the Shelby club and all that goes with that 'Blue Oval' to the core bunch, I remember things that I can't prove w/o some research BUT....CS was caught with his hand in the cookie jar more than once. The so-called missing Cobras, may have been some Mustangs too, was proven to be a scam which CS was intimately involved.

Just like people now build bogus, clone, recreation,
whatever you call them, Yenkos, people wanted Cobras. CS tried to stop them all and when he couldn't evidently wanted what amounted to extortion rather than a reasonable fee.

Remember that was 20 year ago. No Internet and no Google. This is what I remember from the newsletters of the day.
I do recall at the time the real owners absolutely hated the copycats. Visceral hatred. That may have changed. Would be interesting to know.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

We just drove back to Austin from Phoenix, hit some snow in Tuscon. The low VIN Camaro sold for $69,000 and they had $60,000 in the car from what I heard. Probably a break even endeavor for them. Wish I had noticed the "N" in the engine stamp, how interesting.

Real cars with real paperwork and real motors did well. On Sunday, the original owner green '69 400 horse Corvette went for over 100K and the '72 LT 1 with gobs of paperwork (real) also went for over 100K. I was amazed by the number of cars that were advertised with real paperwork, but the paperwork was not available for viewing with the car. We were anxious to look at some specific cars advertised with a window sticker, but none was to be found and owners were not to be found. I'd have to assume that the paperwork is not real in these cases. I did see some fake paperwork being presented with some cars. They did not qualify the paperwork as "original" but the description said the car had a window sticker or some other paperwork. This to me implies a real one. Let me tell you that if I brought a car to this auction that had an original window sticker, I'd blow it up and present it on a billboard so it could be seen from across the parking lot.
Yes, there were some good deals. After the cameras went off on Saturday the place got very quiet and the guys I came with bought what I consider to be one of the most original 1,800 mile Hemi cars on earth at a very, very respectable price. I would imagine the seller anticipated two times what this car brought.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

The car Tim mentioned that we bought is a 1966 Hemi Satellite automatic with 1800 orig miles, Citron Gold with black buckets. It was lot 1342 and we paid 143k including the juice.

We didn't look it over to carefully before we bought it, in that it went across at about 11pm Saturday night, but later we crawled though it in a lot of detail, along with a few "hemi guys" that were around. This car is most unmolested showroom original that I have ever seen. The only things that seemed to be changed from factory new were the battery, exhaust, and tires. The blue streak original spare and jack appeared to never have been out of the trunk.

It spent 28 years in the Macroder (sp) Museum in Phoenix, was purchased new in Florida, and when the museum was dismantled went to a Ford collector in Washington around 2002, who traded it in on a new Ford GT last year. After we get a chance to sort out the names of the owners, we may need some help in tracking them down. It came with an original build sheet, and the fender tag is there.

Does anyone know this car??

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

By the way, I also got that '64 Mercury R-Code at B-J. Looks like a nice original with all factory docs. Anyone familiar with that one? Lot 1020. I know......so much for downsizing the collection!

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
.......the description said the car had a window sticker or some other paperwork. This to me implies a real one......

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a shame how the scammers double talk has legally worked its way into our hobby; "Numbers matching" and "correct factory date coded equipment",
back in the old days that meant original, "born with" components. Do we need lawyers now to buy cars for us so we don't get ripped off? We can not count on the second hand descriptions by brokers and auctioneers to be anything but heresay. They quite clearly absolve themselves of any liability concerning a vehicles authenticity.
We're back to the sixties, "Let the buyer beware"

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

I may be able to get some information on the chevelle from the new owner who is a friend of a friend. The guy is a retired NY detective now living in FL.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

Paul D
I would like to see and hear more about that 66 Hemi Satelite in the future.
Maybe a members rides feature?

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

The car looks like it left the factory last week, amazing. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/shocked.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

There were some very nice documented cars there with storyboards and copies of their pedigree.One that came to mind was an Olympic gold cross ram that I believe sold for over 160k.
So if last year was percieved as the top,and this year some great values,what does 08 bring?.Maybe the fact everyone who watched from their living rooms last year sat up like prairie dogs in front of the TV and decided to head to boom town and cash in..the floor was certainly flooded with like cars and that allows for choice.

I didn't sell anything there but might at R&S next year.Can't see BJ going back to no reserve as SPEED would certainly object for obvious reasons.While I know some people are hopping mad at what their cars brought(and rightfully so) there has to be an almost equal and satisfied amount of buyers who scooped up some nice stuff at a song.I mean it's really no diff than Vegas with out a reserve right?.You're banking on the fact it will continue trending up .I equate it to stock trading-when the Jim Cramer idiot savants tell the retail fish to buy,buy,buy XYZ stock because it's undervalued it usually means the square side is more than willing to sell you their shares at that price(anyone remember the Wall St Journal feature on Boomers with Muscle in their portfolio last summer?)Don't get me wrong I have an LS6 and they took arguably the biggest hit of all,but to blame the auction house for not looking into their tea leaves and predicting a stabilizing market for sellers is not fair imo.Hopefully this was a healthy correction and soft landing,but it begs the question how will it affect the people who are doing high $$ restorations.So where to now St Peter?.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
.....While I know some people are hopping mad at what their cars brought(and rightfully so)...

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Although I sympathize with anyone who lost at the auction, I have to ask what do you expect from a no reserve auction? Surely anyone who put their car in a no reserve auction understands the inherent risk of what may happen. Yes you could end up with a fortune but you can also end up taking a very large and vile tasting pill. Hell, there's only 30 guys bidding anyways......

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

I just got a call from a friend . People he knew took a car there expecting 1 mil. It sold for 300K instead and there are screaming because the auction ended too soon and they produced two people that were willing to bid much higher than the 300K but nobody saw them raising their hands. Shame on them for not bidding sooner or not letting a bidder assistant know they intended on bidding. The same people selling the car bought it about 3 years ago for 75K and they are bitching because they didn't get 1 mil. I lost out on something in the memorabilia auction because I tried bidding at the last instant but shame on me.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

That's the way I see it. If someone was willing to bid on the car past 300k then what were they doing when the auctioneer said "going once"....

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

Comes down to which side of the fence one is on. As I buyer I want all auctions, even Ebay, to be No Reserve, BUT, as a seller, I want a Reserve Auction.


Kind of ironic. Normally a No Reserve auction is good for the buyer, but in the past, B/J has actually been very rewarding to the sellers. This year, for whatever reason, and there are several, B/J this was pretty much a buyer's market.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

Typically a no reserve auction will bring more money.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

PaulD,

I know the Merc. you bought its from my area. it is a GREAT car and extremely nice when it is clean.. I know it got a little dirty out there but a good bath and you will just drool looking at it. Very Rare Car.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

A no reserve auction only benefits the buyer. I do notice that some cars with roughly the same value get a pretty nice starting price of say 200K, while others start at 50K, i wonder who makes up those decisions and what the criteria of getting the benefit of a higher starting auction are..

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Comes down to which side of the fence one is on. As I buyer I want all auctions, even Ebay, to be No Reserve, BUT, as a seller, I want a Reserve Auction.....

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I look at it this way - Want to take a chance? Go to B-J. Want less risk? Go to R&S. Never seen it written anywhere that a no reserve is a guaranteed money maker.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

I want to hear about the Merc. too !!!!!!!!!!

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

More people pay attention to no reserve auctions because they know they really have a shot at the item. Yes there can be a downside if bidding stops before where you think it should but for the most part it generates more bidders and higher prices.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
More people pay attention to no reserve auctions because they know they really have a shot at the item. Yes there can be a downside if bidding stops before where you think it should but for the most part it generates more bidders and higher prices.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a prime example of this is Ebay, where the majority of us do our best to avoid reserve auctions.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

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Typically a no reserve auction will bring more money...

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...to further line the pockets of Craig Jackson. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

They bought the car for 75K and sold for 300K, I don't see what they were bitching about, pretty good return if you ask me. Where was Ferrari hat guy and Alan Jones, I didn't see either one of those guys. What happened on the Futureliner deal last year that left one bidder very upset? B/J is good entertainment, much better than anything else that I could have been watching.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

When there is a reserve price, can't the seller lift the reserve if he feels it's close enough to what he expects.??-----------Could a seller ask to have a reserve price at BJ or was he kinda passed over for someone who had a ample supply of tums and was willing to " gamble" with his car.........??..........Just lookin for an education..

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
When there is a reserve price, can't the seller lift the reserve if he feels it's close enough to what he expects.??-----------Could a seller ask to have a reserve price at BJ or was he kinda passed over for someone who had a ample supply of tums and was willing to " gamble" with his car.........??..........Just lookin for an education..

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Yes..and... no.

A seller can lower, or even lift his reserve, this was done on numerous occasions at Mecum.

I believe B/J will only take cars sold with No Reserve.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

BJ is simple economics. People wanting to sell at No Reserve out number the lots he has available. When he doesn't fill all his lots then things may change, until then no way. He gets his no matter what, american dream.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
They bought the car for 75K and sold for 300K, I don't see what they were bitching about, pretty good return if you ask me. Where was Ferrari hat guy and Alan Jones, I didn't see either one of those guys. What happened on the Futureliner deal last year that left one bidder very upset? B/J is good entertainment, much better than anything else that I could have been watching.

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I saw " Little Red Farrari Guy " Live on Saturday. He was up on the podium with the boy's for awhile.
I forget to bring my Malox ! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

I've never been very comfortable with the whole no-reserve B-J set up. The seller appears to take all the risk. There is no real incentive for them to work the crowed when they get their squeeze either way, unless it's a million+ dollar car. But let's be honest. With out sellers there is no auction. The sellers have allowed B-J to write the rules. Short of any unethical or illegal activities you can't fault Craig Jackson for being allowed to write the rules and make millions in the process. I know very few people, business men, investors, what ever that given the same opportunity would not have done the same thing. Any seller that expected to invest 75K in a car and turn it for a million and then complain about only selling it for 300K (if that's the real story) is just as greedy as CJ. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong or right about being greedy, but lets not call the kettle black. Sellers have allowed B-J to become the monster it has become and only the sellers can change it. B-J can't pay the bills selling pianos and soap box derby cars. If they in fact turned away 3000+ no reserve cars it may be a wile before things change.

I've attended both R-S and B-J. For entertainment B-J is a ton of fun but for selling a car the R-S auction is much more my style, reserve pricing, much smaller, much more intimate in fact to intimate for there to be any shill bidders or missed bids. Plus those guys at R-S really work the crowed. If a few more major auction houses had auctions in Scottsdale during B-J week they would have to take reserve cars.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

I missed that part of the auction on Saturday night, had to attend B-day party for my father-in-law, Ferrari hat guy is usually all over the place on Friday and Saturday night.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

[ QUOTE ]
But let's be honest. With out sellers there is no auction. The sellers have allowed B-J to write the rules. Short of any unethical or illegal activities you can't fault Craig Jackson for being allowed to write the rules and make millions in the process. I know very few people, business men, investors, what ever that given the same opportunity would not have done the same thing. Any seller that expected to invest 75K in a car and turn it for a million and then complain about only selling it for 300K (if that's the real story) is just as greedy as CJ. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong or right about being greedy, but lets not call the kettle black. Sellers have allowed B-J to become the monster it has become and only the sellers can change it. B-J can't pay the bills selling pianos and soap box derby cars. If they in fact turned away 3000+ no reserve cars it may be a wile before things change.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said Rick.

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

There was a cat on Chevelle tech last night recalling how he had been to every BJ Scottsdale since 1971.Wonder what the en vouge stuff was back then..

Re: Barrett Jackson.....
 

IMHO anyone who hasn't attended Barrett Jackson but has thought about it....go! It has everything you could imagine that is car related, there is so much it is overwhelming and getting bigger all the time. There is too much information to process. If it is true that 3000 cars were turned away you won't be seeing the no reserve aspect going away any time soon. It amazes me that they accept some of the junkers that go accross and makes me wonder what they turned down. There are some amazingly cool cars there and definitely something for everyone, no matter what you like. Would I run a car through BJ? I have considered it but don't think my heart would take it, talk about high stakes gambling, too many risk factors and no reserve. It would hurt like hell to buy your own car back, especially if you shipped it there and had to haul it back. I have sold a few cars at other auctions in Phoenix, Kruse and RS, with a reserve, that is nerveracking enough. I would however consider buying a car at one of the auctions, even with the fees, there are steals, especially early and late in the day. And you really can't fault Craig Jackson, like so many others have said, wish I had though of it, what a racket, he can't lose. He gets you coming and going, attendance fees, concessions, merchandising, TV royalties etc, etc. Joe Blow public thinks they can pull any heap out of the barn, run it thru BJ and break the bank. BJ is referenced all the time on ebay and ad after ad as the market price. That is what the general pulic views as the benchmark. For a more pure muscle car auction I recommend RS, great cars, and plenty of them, you can still do a reserve and there are good buys to be had. I will have to check out RM, I've never went but plan to in the future, always hear good things about it. Any of it would beat what I'm doing currently, AFN didn't even carry BJ at all as far as I could tell. Oh Well, guess I can catch the reruns when I get back in a couple weeks.