Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

Toner,

The debate goes on... At first the answer for most is NO.

But...

Original factory quarters are date coded on the inside where they meet the trunk. If the dates are inconsistant with the build of the car then that is a dead givaway that the car has been requartered. The point that I am making here is that if a guy goes to enough trouble to fake an expensive car then the doner rebody will have original sheetmetal - that will pre-date the build of the car that is being re bodied - in a manner consistant with production timeframes for the build of the original car.

Again-- Buyer beware. the buyer has to know what it is that he/she is buying. Research is the most important part here. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

I've been being quiet on this one just to get an idea of what everybody else thought about this. A rebody is definetly a last resort but I think in some cases it may be necessary. However, when it is done it should definetly have a direct effect on the value and desirability of the vehicle. How do you guys feel about what was done to this ZL-1?: www.69zl1.com
This is a great thread and I hope everyone will put in their opinion so we can get a general idea of the opinion in the hobby as a whole.



Jason

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

If you are spending any large amount of money on a car, you should get a signed total disclosure statement from the seller. Otherwise, you may just be the one trying to explain the restamped engine, and rebody after you have sold the car. Pleading ignorance won't cut it. A ton of pictures during the restoration will pay big dividends down the road. Once a Chevelle is built, it is a devil of a time to pull the heater box to show someone the hidden VIN stamp. Not too many sellers will be willing to do that. At least with having the car restored, you know exactly what you have and the car can be documented to death in the process. Buying a finished car can be a real crap shoot.

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

ATTN: 68TS, Sixties muscle, Toner, & Motown Madman

The '69 ZL-1 in the pics posted by Supernovass has a pristine body in my eyes. It would be childs play to fix to what I've seen in my area. Where I come from the cars got winter salt baths + worse yet, fallout from the many steel/industrial plants. Years ago when the pollution was bad I would see cars that were 1-2 years old have the paint totally stripped off by rust.I have seen cars in junyards that 100% of ALL PANELS need replaced due to the fall out from the mills. Some of the cars have litteraly collpased (imploded) to where the cowls/roofs etc have caved in due to major structural rust. I have seen inner quarter side panels that the rear quarter window regulator bolts to have rusted out holes 16-20". I have seen rusted out holes in roofs by the upper windshield trim, not bottom, that go back 4-5"-clear open space. Not to mention rusted out cowls. Even the pillar the door hinges bolt to are totaly gone and the inner cowl structure has rusted away as well. You guys tell me you will try to replace these panels? No way. The car would have to be junked or rebodied. I really wonder how many posters that are against rebodying would not rebody if the car was one of the missing ZL-1's or 1 of 7 Hemi Cuda convertibles. I personally would not rebody a car because that's not my cup of tea but can see the reasons why some would. Sometimes it is not a question of time or money but the impossibility of redoing the car regardless of what one of the posters said above.
Dave

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

Jason,

The guy doing this car clearly has the details worked out.

Is it a rebody? I would say so. In the end will the car be fixed in a manner fitting a car of its fame? Clearly yes as this car also passes the full disclosure test- and any future buyers will know exactly what they are getting. Only 69 of these monsters made. Cool car. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

Whitetop, As I stated earlier I have never done a rebodie, yet I would not rule it out if the situation called for a extremely rare car and no other way to fix it. As for the ZL-1 in the link? That body is a piece of cake to fix, I have personally fixed many worse as I also live in the salt belt, and the pollution in Detroit in the seventies I can assure you was just as bad if not worse than Ohio. COPO Pete made a good point...when you get a new heart you do not become the other person. As for the FBI mentioned earlier on in this thread, believe me they have bigger fish to fry then a guy trying to save or restore his classic car. I will not go into the details on how I know that, but I do have experience with law enforement at the federal level. It all comes back to buyer awareness and what the owner and/or buyer is comfortable with, but I would not buy a high dollar restored car without a complete photo record.
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

From the pics I would say they removed MORE then what was needed to restore the ZL 1 back to original. This route was easier then welding in indivdual pieces, but to extreme for this car.
toner

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

Many prominent board members have chosen not to voice their opinion on this thread, wonder why? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

Anyone who has come from the street rod building world into the muscle car world wouldn't think twice about rebodying a car. This business has been going on forever without a second thought where they come from. The rebody in itself added little to the value of the car other than the fact that you would have solid metal to work with. In the muscle car world different things matter and different rules apply. Specific models, engine options etc are a couple of examples of what can add greatly to the value of the car. It might just take some time and a few court dates before these guys learn the new rules.

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

Anybody got a rule book? I beat a guy once in Detroit in a high dollar street race who said it wasnt fair because he couldnt hear to shift his car after I pulled a cable to uncap my headers. Everybody there got a chuckle out of it when somebody asked him to see the rule book on street racing. I made one of the "Street Freaks" issues of Car Craft in the seventies for having one of the fastest cars on the steets, long before Pro Street was born. The only official rules I know of when it comes to restorations are moral ones. if the intention of the restorer is to decieve someone then that would definetly be breaking the rules. As I have stated numerous times I dont agree with a rebody, the purpose of this thread was to be awareness as to ways to protect from buying something that is not what it is represented to be. That goes back to having a photo record of every restoration, just a different type of documentation. The real crime in the collector car world these days is the guy who takes a plain jane Chevelle and passes it off as an SS, which from what I have been reading in earlier posts here can be done. We have to remember that a lot of these cars are restored not for resale, but for the owners enjoyment, in which case no one has a right to tell the guy how to restore his car. If he does end up selling it for whatever reason and gives the new owner full disclosure who buys it anyway....well so be it. If that guy sells it and doesnt tell the next guy... well than they both are at fault, the seller for being decietful, and the buyer for not being smart enough to investigate what he is spending his money on. Yes, I do build street rods, which really has nothing to do with this discussion, as I was also driving a 69 427 Camaro in 1972, a car which I bought wrecked and fixed using its original body. I was collecting muscle cars when everybody else was throwing them away due to the gas and insurance crisis, and I owned a Yenko when their owners were peeling the stripes because nobody liked them. With respect to my background I believe I am somewhat qualified to have an opinion on this issue, as with most if not all of the other members here. Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]