Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

[ QUOTE ]

Give me a break guys..DH was a drag rqacer..a very good one at that..The guy doesn't have time or the energy to put door handles on non-existent doors, or mid season have another body mold made for a back up car, when he already has the use of a back up car...1 guy = 3 or maybe 4 cars if you account for the 1967 car???? IMO not likely...

[/ QUOTE ]


Wait a minute... You are claiming he didn't have time to add a door handle to a one piece body, but he DID have time to paint the same car 15 different ways, add/remove spoiler veins, change tail lights, etc.?

btw, couldn't the door handle serve to aid in lowering/raising the body into position?

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Phil and Marlin the comments are not needed in this thread. It is already hard to pay attention without un-needed comments.

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

I would guess you could try to use the handle to raise and lower the body, but wouldn't you think if that is the purpose of it,there would be one on each side..that way 2 people could do it and lessen the chance for body damage..if one person trys to raise the body, I would think there is a very real chance on torquing the body and cracking it..Also why don't you see other cars with these handles if that is the way to raise and lower the body..even today...I honestly don't think this question is that complicated...

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

[ QUOTE ]
..DH had a funnycar made without a door and BOLT in tailights..installed a door handle only on the drivers door, when there ISN"T a need for one, ie: no door.. adding both weight and the possibility that it might fall off...


[/ QUOTE ]That's the stupidest assumption you've made yet. Go through the pictures posted and links to other 67-8 Camaros of the period. There were several that had stock emblems added to the fenders make them look like "real" cars. Obviously they weren't worried about extra weight and having them "fall off".

Besides I have seen at least one photo of the 1968 DH funnycar (can't remember where at the moment) where the at least the windshield "glass" had been reinstalled bolted in. (Perhaps after a repair). This was a photo from late 1968 if I remember correctly and it was still in the DH paint scheme. That's not to say it adds any authenticity to Tom's car, but looking at the picture of the Manhart & Engle car from 1969, it appears that all the windows are still "glassed" in.

Furthermore, I believe Tom also said his car was the 1st car, not the 2nd car as you claim. And if you have been paying attention, Tom also said that the guy he bought the car from claimed it was a DH funnycar. This is different from what you and others are saying, it which you claim Tom bought just any old Camaro funnycar and threw the DH connection in all on his own.

I don't claim to have all the answers, but I'm keeping an open mind based on the facts presented so far, and the fact that all the evidence isn't in yet.

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

I know which car Tom says he has..Also If you read my post no where do I say or imply Tom bought an old car and then decided it is the DH car..he bought the car thinking it was...maybe you should re-read the post and the last thread that was locked..


While some cars had bolt in taillights...Platts car being an obvious one..I don't see any other cars that have a door handle on a non-functioning door...The only other pic that even shows a door handle I could find, outside of the 3 (Larson, DH and Burkhardt's) is Pulde's Wilson owned car..and I would think most would agree that car looks more like a steel rear car, like the DH 1967 car..hence it would have had a functioning door..

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Wow Greg! That Manhart and Engle sure looks like the DH 68 body. Most of the front fender sponsor decals/names are exactly the same, the opening door looks exactly the same and the rear driver's side window is exactly the same. If that is the DH 68 body then the chassis might be under the 69 body. I believe Val has the car now if I read the posts correctly. Has she ever checked the chassis for the Hardy tag like Matt showed on the Kirby car? As for Tom's car, it can't be the Platt car because the Platt car and a lot of those other similar 68 body's have no molded front bumper but Tom's car does. Unless Tom's car had a completely different front nose section replaced on his car. This is still really interesting stuff. And if you look at the older picture of the Kirby car that Dave put in that older post, you could see where it might have been raced by DH without the "Jim Kirby" on the front fenders and that could be the car in some of these old pictures.

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/25288-Chakib.jpg

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

"....Actually "yes" it does..look at the door near the top where the rear edge of the door curves towards the front of the car..."

I still say no, so I guess it is up to the jury now.

BTW, I have received several messages and the vote is about 10-1, guess which way?

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Phil and Marlin the comments are not needed in this thread. It is already hard to pay attention without un-needed comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then lock it up, it's been going nowhere.

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Tom can you post pics of other 1968 cars that have door handles only on one side and no doors...especially since "BTW, door handles on one piece bodies back then was not that uncommon" I guess they were so common that Kirby, who ran out of the DH stable and didn't have a door in his car, just forgot to do it...

I would love to see the pics...

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Sorry forgot to mention..look at your 5th pic in this thread, the one you comment about the door gap along the rocker..you mention the "2nd" car and Kirby's car have a better fit..Actually look at the Manhart car in the photo...same issue with the door and rocker...in the same spot..under the "Super Camaro". Tom I tell you what let's take the photos to someone who is versed in looking at photos and making comparisons...someone that is completely unbiased either way at this point..

BTW..any thought on the door lock cylinder that made me question the whole door in the first place..???

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

The Platt car and the Decker car didn't have a door handle and neither did this one that Jeff posted the link to earlier. But if you look at the picture you can see there is an indentation of where the handle would go so I bet some guys put the handle on anyway. I don't think the handle/no handle has any bearing on trying to identify a car since it could be added at any time.

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/179173-Vern_019.jpg

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Jeff agreed..a door handle can be put on the car at any point..Still though you really do have to wonder why a top notch pro would have put one on a non-functioning door when his stable mate didn't...I think most would agree that the best evidence showing TC's car to be something other than the DH Camaro is actually in the door area, lack of glassed in windows and tailights..and a logical thought process as to what is known and what is factual..Any ideas on the film footage showing DH 1967 FC crash..I am pretty surte it took place at New York National Dragway..There is an article showing this. I think it was the AHRA Nationals..

This discussion now that people are keeping the personal stuff out hopefully will be a learning experience whichever way the ball bounces..

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Greg, you keep talking about the Kirby car as if it started life as a DH car, and DH designed and built it...quite the contrary...it becoming a DH car was WELL after the fact. DH had no input on the building of that car, other than the fact that Dickie gave Kirby a blown engine in exchange for Kirby painting it up as a DH car.

And I still say the car in this picture has bolt in tail lights...

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Rob,

i know Kirby had the car built..The point about the Kirby car is it was supposely built by the same gentleman that built DH's car..that is all..I've got quite a few pics from 1968 of the DH car I'll be posting, none of which are on here.

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Rob,
..I've got quite a few pics from 1968 of the DH car I'll be posting, none of which are on here.

[/ QUOTE ]

And just where might those becoming from? Hum... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Not to be an ass..but I frankly don't like the implacation...Actually off the 'net..using "Google" by back tracking the races DH ran..maybe if you had researched the car you have YOU would have had these pics...but I know the guy TOLD you it is a DH car...

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Charley, this thread is going NOWHERE. Instead of "moderating" guys that are sick of it why don't you pull the plug on the whole thing? Their have been literally almost 30,000 views and hundreds of replies between the two sites and I think that we have all made our minds up by now. At this point it seems to be between just Greg & Tom now. Maybe they should take it offline?

Oh and BTW in all Gregs novel size posts where nothing seems to be getting accomplished what happened to this? Come on guys let's put a fork in it.......... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/crazy.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Well no offense the last time I checked there wasn't a Jesus among anyone here..You guys come off like this how the hobby is supposed to be..when in actuality you are soo far removed from it in a lot of cases. It is supposed to be about having fun and being able to engage in discussion that teaches, entertains, and is meaningful. However that isn't done here..instead you put yourselves, your collections, and your pompous attitudes above others and it shows. Don't believe me..go to other sites and read some of the post..not from people you kicked off, but from people that came here looking for an answer or to see some really cool cars and read some of the post..I'm done with this website and the attitudes here..You guys are soo blinded that you validate and hold everyone's car to a higher standard yet can't do the same for a member..no matter who he is...All I've heard is how "those" guys were so bad..how they caused problems, etc..Well maybe they do and maybe they are asses who knows..BUT when THIS website and members here had a chance to apply the same attitudes, criteria,etc to a members car they couldn't..NO MAKE THAT WOULDN'T.....that is the travesty to me...the visible double standard that is here..

Please remove my profile from your site. I would like to be able to come here and view post as there are some great guys with tons of knowledge. I do not to be able to post here or contribute any idea, knowledge or thought I have. This is my own wish.

Respectfully,

G S "Gregory" "Greg" "Gregg" "G Dog" (old Marine name..)Carlson..that's for you Shauger..guess it makes you feel better..get a life..you were much cooler when you were "Steve Shauger..Camaro guy" instead of "Steve Shauger Yenko owner"


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

1968 DH car..New York National Drag strip

working on the date

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Same location..again..working on date..Definityl shows a door, as the sheetmetal is vertical along the "A" pillar..much like the Libby photo..

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

AHRA Spring Nationals 5/68 Notice car has a door..very visible door lines..mostly likely due to launch..also wearing the "burgundy" color scheme..Keep in mind this is May of 1968..early in drag year...

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

What a "Waste" of energy......................and Bandwidth................. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

[ QUOTE ]
1968 DH car..New York National Drag strip

working on the date

[/ QUOTE ]

Greg that would be a 1969, notice the front park lamps.

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Frank, Ken and everyone else, I apologize. Not only should this thread(s) have not gone this far, but should have never happened in the first place. But, not only was my car’s credibility called into question, which I can deal with, but more importantly my integrity, which I will defend to the death to preserve.
Through the years I have been called, and accused of a lot of things, and have tried to let most of them go, unless it was that I lie, cheat or steal. Where I come from those are fighting words. If Greg and the others want to take this offline, I would be more then welcome to do. As far as I am concerned, this thread needs to be closed, but that is up to our moderators. And, I hate to say it, but as long as Greg and the others continuing dragging this on, I will continue to defend my car and myself. Who wouldn’t if in the same situation?

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Very true on the first pic.. Sorry it is from AHRA Spring National 5/18/69..the other pics are correct..go to

www.dragracingimagery.com

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Greg, If I am not mistaken, there are 10 of those pictures in that group. The reason I know, I bought the whole set, thinking it was my car. Low and behold, the car had a door, molded in tail lights, vanes on the spoiler, which even though disapointed they were not of my car, they were valuable pieces in the two car theory I had been researching for several years.

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Let's discuss offline...I sent you a IM asking for a way to call..my dime

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

I can't believe any of you guys think this is a waste of energy. There have been some great photos presented of the DH cars. How is that a waste? Tom knows his car does not have a functioning door or the vanes in the spoiler so any photos showing the DH cars with and without those details have a lot of meaning. I personally have no interest in the funnycars but this history is very enlightening. Oh well. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Charley, this thread is going NOWHERE. Instead of "moderating" guys that are sick of it why don't you pull the plug on the whole thing? Their have been literally almost 30,000 views and hundreds of replies between the two sites and I think that we have all made our minds up by now. At this point it seems to be between just Greg & Tom now. Maybe they should take it offline?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is an interesting discussion. If anyone doesn't like what's being said here or doesn't like the way the thread is being handled, DON'T READ IT. Greg has asked a lot of very valid questions and made a lot of vaild points. But he has also made a lot of assumptions based on what he thinks Dick Harrell would or should have done. Since Dick Harrell is no longer around, you can't assume you know why he did what he did. I don't think that Greg has a vested interest in this car. He is just studing the evidence placed before him. He has probably done more research on this car in the last several days than anyone has since the car was found. Yet some of you guys want to laugh and make jokes about him and what he has done. Right now he seems to be the only one that even cares if the car is the Harrell car or not.
Tom, as for your messages saying they think you car is the real deal, that is to be expected. Your friends and the supercar crowd here are going to back you until they are proven 100% wrong and some may still back you then. Greg and a most of the others that openly say they don't think your car is the Harrell car are all outsiders and not one of the "guys." So naturally they are going to be given a hard time. For me, there are a couple of the "guys" on here that I always respected but have now lost a lot of respect for them because of some of the comments they have made. From the evidence that I have seen posted, I think there is very little chance that you have the Harrell car. That's a shame because I thing you have a very nice piece of vintage racing histore no matter who's car it was.
James

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

You misssed the point of my post. It was not if folks thought my car was real or not, it was whether the pictures posted on page 12?, 2 of the burgundy car and 2 of the R/B car. I asked the question, are they the same body? The tally now? About 15-1 that there they are two seperate bodies.

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

No offense..but I would venture the people saying 2 bodies are people with stars by their names..Also if you truly wanted to put this to bed..why don't we find an expert in the field of pics..

Just curious but how do you explain having a car...his first car..and only being able to find 1 or 2 pics of it..Don't you think if he had 2 cars there would be more pics of "your" car out there..After all we can find dozens of pics of a car that you say is car "2"..

What about the noticeable rocker area of both the pic you claim is "your" car and the Manhart car..you have never addressed that..

I am specifically asking you what you make of that???

..it appears to be in the exact same area of your car...nor the lock cylinder issuse, nor the windows not being glassed in.., nor the tail lights being bolted in..

Send me a number and I'll call you..and we can discuss

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

[ QUOTE ]
...Just curious but how do you explain having a car...his first car..and only being able to find 1 or 2 pics of it..Don't you think if he had 2 cars there would be more pics of "your" car out there..After all we can find dozens of pics of a car that you say is car "2"..


[/ QUOTE ]

You do not how much I would give to know the answer to that, and to have more pictures of the Red/Black car. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Maybe it is because the car didn't wear that color scheme too long..most likely only a few races..and then it was painted in the color scheme you have as "Car 2" I guess that idea never occured to you??? What is the date on the pic that "Jeff" sent you...showing the all red car..passengers side..Where was it taken??? Did you try to find out where the 1 pic you say was the only pic you had was taken...The pic illustratingthe door areas of the red/black car..It would appear to be take when it was somewhat cool out..notice the guys are wearing jackets..Also notice the trees in the back ground..they appear to be deciduous trees..hardwoods, as they appear to have lost their leaves..

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it is because the car didn't wear that color scheme too long..most likely only a few races..and then it was painted in the color scheme you have as "Car 2" I guess that idea never occured to you??? What is the date on the pic that "Jeff" sent you...showing the all red car..passengers side..Where was it taken??? Did you try to find out where the 1 pic you say was the only pic you had was taken...The pic illustratingthe door areas of the red/black car..It would appear to be take when it was somewhat cool out..notice the guys are wearing jackets..

[/ QUOTE ]

Greg, man you are one sharp cookie, only about 4 years too late. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif Seriously, Dave Libby is in the picture and he told me it was taken at KCI.

Now lets give this rest. We will talk, but right now I need to get some work done. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

No maus...no maus... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

[ QUOTE ]
No offense..but I would venture the people saying 2 bodies are people with stars by their names...

[/ QUOTE ]

You requested your profile and forum membership be deleted 5-6 pages ago claiming you have no bias in this topic. Now you come out with insults and disparaging remarks about everyone/anyone that supports this forum site. There are a lot of people that proudly support this site, and you're apparently proud you don't...so, no offense...I'll ask again in your behalf...Can one of the mods please terminate Greg's forum registration and delete his profile?

SS

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Hey guys, I have a question about these "opening door" cars. How did they create the opening door? I would think the body did not come with the opening door but was a solid 1 piece body. Therefore, wouldn't the opening door need to be done once the body was delivered? Larson's car had an opening door and it was a different mold than the DH car. Is it possible that when the DH 68 car first arrived in it's red/black configuration that it was a solid 1 piece body and then when it was repainted could the door have been made functional? I know, this is a wild and crazy thought but Im just trying to figure out the timeline of the car being red/black, then all red, then the tri-color and it having the opening door in the end. Does anyone have that video clip showing Dick getting out the door?

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

I didn't see that as an insult. It looks to me like about everyone that was giving Greg a hard time are regulars on the site and have stars by their name. Hell, I have stars by my name and I was not offended. I know that Greg asked a few days ago to be removed from the site and it wasn't done. I think most the comments made today were fairly civil with the exception of some made by members with stars by their names. I guess no one wants to know if the car is the real deal or not.
James

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Jeff, I had thought about that, but the burgundy car just does not look like the R/B car. Real vs molded in tail lights, vanes on rear deck, and a couple of other smaller details that are only noticable in the actual pictures.

I too would like to know how it was done, could not have been a easy thing to do. Hinges, latch, extra fiberglass somewhere as re-inforcement, as the body would want to buckle when lifted. IMO, possible, but very hard to do on a car already in service versus trying to do it on a new car.

Plus the magazine artilce 55Chevy alluded to says there were two cars, with pictures of the r/b car and the burgundy car.

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

[ QUOTE ]
It looks to me like about everyone that was giving Greg a hard time are regulars on the site and have stars by their name.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe these stars are so much of a problem. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/crazy.gif

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

Yeah Tom, that article has me stumped. But I noticed that the article is from the Sep 68 magazine and it still shows the 67 steel body car and that was long gone by that time. I tend to think that article has pictures from different time frames in it(the 67 car and the red/black configuration would be late 67 early 68 and then the burgundy 68 might be later in the 68 season). The pictures of the all red car are the biggest mystery, but the picture of it on the rollback truck are dated Feb 68 so it was the mid season configuration. Too bad there are no pictures of the all red car showing better detail of the spoiler and taillight area. I know he had an incident with the 67 car but was there a fire incident in the 68 car and if there was, at what point during the year did that happen? Is it possible they changed out the body because of it?

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars
 

[ QUOTE ]
For me, there are a couple of the "guys" on here that I always respected but have now lost a lot of respect for them because of some of the comments they have made.

[/ QUOTE ]

(I am only using your quote James as a leader into this and by no means an attack on you)

That is one of the saddest things about this whole affair. Not whether this car is real or not but the fact that something such as this has driven many friends apart and given many a bad taste in their mouths about being in this hobby for years and having NO connection with the car or it’s owner. As it is, many of us attending a car show will not be known for what car we have, what automotive expertise we have, what we have offered to the hobby or how nice a person we may be but instead being noted as "he or she's one of them". People will be "labeled" by which "camp" they frequent. I personally feel like I cannot read or post on other sites as well as this one sometimes due to the “guilty by association.” Some shows are even advertised that you cannot display if you are a member of XXXXXXX site. Try that same tactic and not allow Hispanics or African Americans to display and see how far you get. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

I have seen several friendships starting to be taxed on here and other sites due in part to this thread. Many of these people were friends from the beginning and are now being pushed apart because of differences in opinions. Some friendships that could possibly have been made will now likely not happed due to that same "guilty by association". Even possibly taking on a restoration from a member of another site has caused me and some others to think things through even though the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other, that is TRULY a shame. Some of the people I speak with every day have refused to post on any of the car sites because they don’t want to partake in or be a part of this crap. Because of that, we miss a universe worth of talent and information that these people could have been bringing to the sites.

This has been one topic that I have refused to take a side on and believe it should have been handled off site and maybe then only if a sale were pending to protect a buyer if in fact (any) car was being passed off as something it is not but who am I to say. This as well as other similar threads on many sites are nothing more then witch hunts (sorry Annie) and are used to try and derail one site as a way of competition or betterment. This hobby is quickly becoming something that I am not proud to bring my child up into. And speaking of my child, even at 10 years old she was more mature then some of us are when I look over this and other sites and how we treat each other and work out our differences. Nuff said, now hang me! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif
Rick Nelson