Re: 72 T/A progess
 

A very interesting post....the repair turn out very very nice..... outstanding job Steve!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

Looks great Steve can't wait to see the finished car.Happy Thanksgiving ,Mike

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

Steve that is SWEET, It sure looks a lot easier then the way I used to do the 78-81 Z covers. The Black Cat 2K Waterborne Primers
look like the way to go. We used to add flex additive to our primers to make them work. I remember having to strip to strip all of the
original factory lacquer paint off by hand.

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

The front sheet metal and other panels are at ENOCH's shop in Pennsylvania. He updates me with photos of the progress. Once the front clip is done I hope to bring the rest of the car to him to finish the job. It's been 2 years since I started this project in November, 2004 and I'd really love to get her on the road for next spring. Here are some shots of the trunk lid and passenger fender getting done. Both were rust-free so they were stripped, scuffed and primed. The fender had a small dent in the flare area and had to be massaged back into place.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...106fender2.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...106fender3.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...nderpirmer.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...6lidprimed.jpg

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

Looking good Steve. Massaging metal...a sort of lost art these days... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

BTW, here are two comparison shots of the nose examples of the plastic valance versus the steel valance. As you can see on the copper-colored 71 Formula, the steel valance leaves a huge gap under the endura nose that spoils the look of the nose with the mounting bolts visible in the unfinished urethane area. The white 72 T/A is much nicer with the plastic valance hiding that unsightly, blemished area. (Please disregard the broken spoiler/snow plow option in this original as-purchased photo of my car)

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...DSCN3996_1.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...11-20-04-1.jpg

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

Steve thanks for illustrating the difference. I can't say that I recall seeing any Firebirds with the plastic valance; at least I never really noticed.

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

And here's the final shots of the valance repairs after sanding with 120 grit. I'll leave the rest of the prep for ENOCH. I can't say enough about that little plastic welder contraption. See what a little google search can do when you stumble upon the right company on the internet? I can't wait to get my white valance pieces back from ENOCH so I can start melting on them as well. The original white valance pictured on my car above suffered near terminal breakage due to the snow shoveling the spoiler did. All of the mounting pads were obliterated, the face bar is broken, and the bottom section is heavily melted from the carb fire gone wild. I just love a challenge!

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/PB250004.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/PB250001.jpg

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

Hey, there's actually one of those plastic valances on ebay now. $400 starting bid and repaired in a similar fashion to mine. This one's a marroon colored plastic. (all the various colors were premolded into the plastic)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...bayphotohosting

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

I contacted a company called ECS Automotive who are renowned for their 100% accurate Mopar reproduction decals and asked them if they were interested in stepping outside the Mopar arena for my project. They were quite interested as they are looking to expand their catalog of decals with GM stuff. I cant say enough about these guys. There products are 100% exact compared to the crap that is out there. I previously had one of those "resto outlet" decals that was just pathetic: wrong size, wrong font, wrong spelling etc.

The guys at ECS even reproduced the exact material and process that they were originally made in. The factory emissions decals were clear plastic with black and white printing laid on from the back side of the clear plastic, not like the modern spray printed version the "resto outlets" sell.

Their phone # is (636) 207-7767 www.ecsautomotive.com . Dave was the guy I worked with. I also sent them the original dealership bumper decal from my Hemi Charger and look here to check that out: https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/show...24/#Post238504

By the way, they are now actively looking for other decals to reproduce: if you allow them to use your original decal(s) for a pattern, (which they send back to you, of course) you get the new reproduction one(s) for free.

Here is a comparison of my original and the ECS prototype (which actually had some preproduction flaws which I couldn't see but they said they altered after this version) They said there were something like 15 different fonts used in these decals and the "other" decal makers just use one font for everything...and it shows.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...5268/decal.jpg

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

Here's the lastest in derusting technology that I found here via the Yenko website: http://www.safestrustremover.com/
Though it takes a long time to work due to the current temperature here (around 45 degress) it is rather amazing. I bought a 5 gallon can of the derusting liquid and just followed the directions. I borrowed one of those curved water tanks that you check leaky tires with, wrapped the back of the car in a plastic tarp and fed it into the water tank. I then filled the tank with the liquid and used a small pump I bought at Home Depot, (they are sold for clearing the water from pool covers), hooked it to a garden sprayer with some hose and let it run.


Here is how I set up the contraption:


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...68/extview.jpg


here is the before picture showing the light scale behind the rear valance:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...268/before.jpg

Here is the progess after 2 hours. You can see the shiny metal starting to reappear.


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ace-2hourB.jpg

This is amazing stuff. It is not an acid, just some magical chemical compound accidentally discovered by the guy who owns the company. I stopped by his shop here in Jersey and bought the stuff directly from him. He said they originally were developing a non-toxic rust and scale cleaning process for use in the Holland and Lincoln Tunnels but it wasn't up to the Port Authority's specs so they didn't buy it. He had brought the excess liquid samples home and dumped them in a rusted barrel for disposal the next day. To his surprise, the next day the inside of the rusted barrel was completely shiny metal. And that's where he got the idea to use it on cars. Gotta love accidental discoveries. Isnt that how Silly Putty and plexiglass were both discovered: by accident.

I will let it run over night and update with more photos tomorrow! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

Here is the same spot after 24 hours of spraying. According to the manufacturer, it would go much faster if the ambient temperature was between 70 and 100 degrees. Since the stuff isn't flammable I think you could probably place an aquarium-type heater in the tank to warm the fluid up to 80 degrees or so and speed the chemical reaction up. Unfortunately I'd need to buy a lot more liquid to get it to a high enough level for the heater to work. So I guess I'll just let it spray as it is. It's kind of like those rock tumblers you had as a kid: you put the rocks and the polishing compound in the tumbler and let it spin for a month and then open it up and see the polished stones.

As you can see in the photo, more shiny metal is magically appearing with no paint/primer damage:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...race-24hrA.jpg

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

I never thought about it but I used the stuff back in May & June, and it did work very quickly... 6-8 hours was all it would take.

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

Steve, your restoration narrative and photo documentation is just outstanding https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif I always enjoy reading about your progress. I guess if I wait to use this stuff on my Chevelle until after I move to AZ, it should work pretty well https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

I agree,very informative.
Steve,you should quit your Day job.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

My old day job, back in the last decade before the turn of the century (never thought I'd be old enough to actually say that) was as a tech editor for Musclecar Review and Mopar Muscle Magazine. Maybe if I keep doing this I can legitimately write the whole restoration off on my taxes as a business expense, since I'm now a "Freelance Internet Published Restoration Technician." https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

Whatever you classify yourself as...it's damn interesting to follow along!

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

I kept thinking about the heated fluid idea so I stopped by the local PetsMart on my way home from work and picked up a submersible aquarium heater for about $25 (the ones for reptile tanks that can be fully underwater and not hanging on the side of the tank). Well it turns out that is the trick. Just heat up the fluid and it improves the chemical reaction immensely. Here is a spot by the front leaf spring hanger. I aimed the sprayer and let it go for about two minutes to check the aim while I got the camera ready and in that time it already converted most of the surface rust to clean metal.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/PC140004.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/PC140003.jpg

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

I was so impressed by the stuff... I kept looking around the house for rusty metal objects just so I could throw them in it...

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

I have the aquarium heater running full tilt. the temp is about 65 degrees now and you can actually see the rust dissolve away.

here is the same spring perch area after 2 hours:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...drrail2hrB.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...railafter2.jpg

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

And here's the rocker panel area before:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2.../drsillb42.jpg

and after about 45 minutes:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...sillafter5.jpg

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

Passenger side before and after:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...idesillb41.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...sillafter3.jpg

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

And here is the rear bulkhead area above the rear differential. It had a lot of darkened, rusty areas that cleaned up rather nicely in about an hour. It was a mess to do this area, though. I had to place a kiddy pool under the bucket to catch all the dripping fluid so it wouldn't go to waste (at $25 a gallon it's pretty valuable).

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...5268/rear3.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...5268/rear2.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...5268/rear1.jpg

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

How are you going to treat those areas now? Do you try to reproduce the red oxide primer with overspray?

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

The rust removal stuff when dry, gives you some degree of protection for a couple months. That will give me a little time to do some careful touch up on the various spots. Since the center of the trunk floor needs to be replaced we will end up fogging in the areas behind the rear valance. The gas tank braces were the most scaly parts of the car anyway and they will need to be refinished along with the trunk floor.

By the way, here is how the rear bulkhead area looked before the rust dissolver stuff was used:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...P1140004-1.jpg

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

[ QUOTE ]
The rust removal stuff when dry, gives you some degree of protection for a couple months. That will give me a little time to do some careful touch up on the various spots. Since the center of the trunk floor needs to be replaced we will end up fogging in the areas behind the rear valance. The gas tank braces were the most scaly parts of the car anyway and they will need to be refinished along with the trunk floor.

By the way, here is how the rear bulkhead area looked before the rust dissolver stuff was used:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...P1140004-1.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

This is off the subject but...I have spent untold hours under a multitude of 2nd Gen Camaros and after seeing the floor and those perfect rear frame rails on your car, I have to say that although I don't know what you paid for the car, I have to say you got a good deal regardless of price. You could look at 1000 cars and maybe not find 1 with rails that nice (I feel like I have crawled under that many sometimes!) https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif I love seeing all the pics you post and since I have seen the underside I am really looking forward to seeing it finished. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

[/ QUOTE ]
This is off the subject but...I have spent untold hours under a multitude of 2nd Gen Camaros and after seeing the floor and those perfect rear frame rails on your car, I have to say that although I don't know what you paid for the car, I have to say you got a good deal regardless of price. You could look at 1000 cars and maybe not find 1 with rails that nice (I feel like I have crawled under that many sometimes!) https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif I love seeing all the pics you post and since I have seen the underside I am really looking forward to seeing it finished. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I am more amazed than you! The car has 114,000 miles on it and spent 99% of it's life on the West Coast. I bought it from a guy in PA who brought it back from Washington State. It was sold new at Reliable Pontiac in Roseville, California (They're still in business!) I think I paid about $18,000 for the car back in 2004, saw it listed it on ebay and I immediately ran to the guy's house in PA and bought it on the spot. Top dollar at the time, but now you can't even get a rusted hulk for that. (check these links out and you'll see what $18k gets you now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pontiac-F...1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pontiac-T...1QQcmdZViewItem

It sounds kinda wierd but I spent a lot of time on the creeper this weekend just looking up at the underside of the car. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif

BTW, here is what that derusting stuff can do for hard metal pieces: here is the jack base from the car:

Topside before:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/jacktop1.jpg

Topside after 2 days of soaking:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/jacktop3.jpg

Bottom before:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ackbottom2.jpg

Bottom after:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ackbottom3.jpg

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

All I can say is SWEET!!!

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

Steve, are you going to keep the faded finish?

Neat how this product wroks... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

[ QUOTE ]
Steve, are you going to keep the faded finish?

Neat how this product works... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

If you mean the underside finish, it isn't faded, that's all the original assembly line white paint overspray on the red oxide e-coat primer. I will probably try to match the finish somehow on the under trunk area as we have to replace the bottom of the trunk floor and may end up painting the underside panel up to the upper rear dif area bulkhead. I guess we'll have to prime it and then fog in some white overspray to match.

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Steve, are you going to keep the faded finish?

Neat how this product works... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

If you mean the underside finish, it isn't faded, that's all the original assembly line white paint overspray on the red oxide e-coat primer. I will probably try to match the finish somehow on the under trunk area as we have to replace the bottom of the trunk floor and may end up painting the underside panel up to the upper rear dif area bulkhead. I guess we'll have to prime it and then fog in some white overspray to match.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry for the confusion Steve, I meant the jack base...

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

No, it's a little too far gone to keep in its present shape, so I'll be repainting the jack base as soon as I can find the correct color. The guys on the Pontiac website tend to use Ford Dark Blue engine paint but there's got to be an exact match out there somewhere. Anyone know what the correct paint color is?

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

What we ended up doing on the black 69 Z was using cosmoline, boeshield, or the like on the underside to keep the rust at bay and just left the finishes as found, (we were going for as much originality as possible) I did not want to shoot any paint on the chassis at all, felt like it would detract from the vintage look and feel of the car.

If I were having to replace metal... I would keep as much as possible in the original finish then spot in just like you are talking about... I think that is the way to go...

Keep up the good work Steve...

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

James

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

This is the only project I've seen where half the supplies come from a pet store.

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

You gotta improvise, adapt, and overcome. Never take no for an answer: I just try to think out of the box (or fish tank as it may be) That's how I ended up using the wife's Abdominizer 5000 as a frame stand, an aquarium heater to warm up the derusting fluid, my kids to finger paint the original paint daubs back on the rear differential....

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

People have been asking about the original primer under my car and what paints may be out there that are close to replicating it. I bought a can of the OEM Paints #42030 "Undercarriage Paint Factory Red Oxide Low Sheen" sold by Classic Industies (1-800 854-1280) at $17.95 a can. I sprayed a couple coats on a piece of white cardboard (so it ended up a little bit lighter than it would be over metal) It is pretty darn close to the original stuff under my 12A-built 1972 T/A. It was hard to get a good photo of the comparison because the flash tends to meter off of the card instead of the car itself. Anyway, here it is. It seems to have the correct sheen/gloass as my car has. It should be noted that it was very hard to find a spot on the underside of this car that did not have original white overspray on it, but I managed to find a spot where a hunk of the original undercoating fell off.

Looks like this stuff is the ticket for replicating the original e-coat. Now if we can all chip in and buy about 10,000 gallons, we can dip our cars in it just like the factory did!

By the way, Classic Industries just sent me an email announcing their 15% off holiday sale. You have to use the secret email code to get the discount. Here it is, feel free to use it: HC1157. Happy Holidays!


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...68/primer1.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...68/primer2.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...68/primer3.jpg

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

This stuff is better than sex! Well maybe not that good but damn close!

Steve, thank you for sharing all of the photos and as others have stated, the narative and progress shots. That car is amazingly clean. Had I known about this stuff a couple of years ago it would have made a few of the original untouched cars I helped clean up go a lot faster.

Chad...............I think we need to talk about doing this to a certain Red and the other Blue '70 Chevelles. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif
Rick

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

I just checked the Classic Industries website and they have raised the price on the red oxide paint. It's now $31.95 a can. I guess they must have been following this thread and now expect a rush on orders just in time for the last minute holiday gift giving season.

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

How this for the final result on color matching: After doing the usual search of the unsual places (every autoparts store in a 20 mile radius) I found the exact color for the 70 and up GM jack bases and jack mechanisms: judge for yourself:

It's Duplicolor DE 1609 Chevrolet Blue Engine Enamel


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/jacktop1.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/PC240002.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ackbottom2.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...8/PC240003.jpg

Re: 72 T/A progess
 

Very nice Steve. I think you nailed it! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif