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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I swapped the single leg 2.76 rear for a 1980 3.42 posi rear 25 years ago.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Ah ha!
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Why didnt you just swap the 2 caps..??.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]
Nice ingenuity.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I thought about that...for about a millesecond until I remembered the cost of align boring an engine. If I was going to go that route I would then go to a set of four bolt main caps. Once again, give a mouse a cookie... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I guess my humor didn't come across. I meant just swap caps now.. Lol. Who needs to Align bore [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I got the humor! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] and I thought the same thing for a half second and then came to my senses and wondered if it would be possible (but would require a bunch of extra money to do it).
I imagine there are some backyard rebuilders out there who would have done it without even thinking twice about it. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif[/img] ...And then sold the engine on ebay as a "balanced and blueprinted Big Block 455HO/SD" |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Here's the finished product;
Please note that all the peripheral steel components have been re-plated back to their original finishes--some builders run everything in yellow chromate, I try to keep the parts that were originally clear in clear and the yellow in yellow. The fasteners that were originally black are re-plated black. Also, please note that some other builders will electroplate the castings in order to obtain a super-shiny chromate conversion. While this is an attractive finish, it's nowhere close to OEM. The castings were never plated from the factory, the chromate was applied directly to the bare castings. I reproduce the correct original finish on the castings the same way they were done at the factory, without electroplating them. I mention this not to disparage anyone else's work, just to highlight the technical differences between my work and the work of other builders. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32634-005.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32635-006.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32636-007.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32637-008.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32638-009.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32639-010.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32640-011.jpg Steve, I'll get with you later today. Thanks again for letting me be a part of this project. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Wow [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Can I just put this one on my mantlepiece above the fireplace for a while? Too pretty to use!
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
We cc'd the 1975 6X-4 cylinder heads today. One head had chambers all at 94.5cc and the other head were all 93cc. A Pontiac engine guru plugged all the technical info from the build into his desktop dyno and it comes out to 9.44 to 1 compression and a predicted 390 horspeower at 4500 rpm and 480 lb-ft of torque at 3400 rpm. Compare that to the SD455 net rating with 290 horsepower at 4000 RPM and 390 lb-ft at 3600 RPM. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Sure is pretty Eric ...
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
No problem with the cc difference. Just bore one size .030 an the other side .060.
Jason |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SuperNovaSS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No problem with the cc difference. Just bore one size .030 an the other side .060.
Jason </div></div> That would go great with a swapped main cap or two! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I was getting an old pair of lifters ready to use for degreeing the cam: popping the clip and taking out the internal spring and replacing it with a solid washer, Of course I proceeded to slip with the screw driver and jam it halfway through my finger. OUCH!
It seems that the mechanical dieties always require some type of blood scarifice for every engine I have ever assembled. This one was no different. I proceeded to bleed all over the short block looking for a rag to wrap my finger with... The worst one was the time I tried to install an oil pick up into a smallblock Chevy oil pump. I slipped the open end wrench over the pick up flange and took aim with a 32 oz. ball pean hammer. I swung. Perfect on-target hit - right onto my thumb nail. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Eric.....you are truly a craftsman in every sense of the word! Outstanding job!!
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I would really like to pick your brain on how your process of finishing the carb body.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]
Nice work.. Not many realize the excellence of your plating abilities.. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Here's a question for you camshaft gurus out there:
We started the process of degreeing the camshaft and have come up with some numbers that don't seem to match the tech card on the Summit 2802. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...40-camcard.jpg Intake cam timing @.050 is supposed to open at 3 BTDC with intake centerline of 109 degrees What we got @.050 was: intake opens at 1 degree BTDC with intake centerline of 110.5 degrees. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2-img_1525.jpg Exhaust cam timing @.050 is supposed to open at 56 degrees BBDC with exhaust centerline of 119 degrees What we got @.050 was: exhaust opens at 54.5 degrees BBDC with exhaust centerline of 116 degrees These results were the average of 3 tests.= for each set. I used two solid lifters. So I tried using the three position crank sprocket at the advanced position (it has a "+4" stamped there) and it moved the intake opening to 9 degrees BTDC from 1 degree. Now, instead of being 2 degrees retarded from the 3 degree spec, it is now 8 degrees from its original position (or 6 degrees advanced from the 3 degree BTDC spec). So I assume that is way too far in the other direction for an adjustment. I guess I have to buy another double roller set with a 9 position keyway and try to adjust from there. Cloyes makes a nice one that is around $95 from Summit. I am not a math whiz so I am guessing that a 4 degree crank sprocket advance position actually moves the cam 8 degrees due to the fact that the crankshaft rotates twice for every single rotation of the cam? What about an offset cam sprocket woodruff key? The smallest increment they sell is 2 degrees (Mr. Gasket). Here is my question: will a 2 degree cam key move my final dial reading two degrees to the preferred 3 degree spec or will it add 4 and make it 5 degrees total? Help me Obewan Kenobee, You're my only hope... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...3-img_1523.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Welcome to the wonderful world of mass produced parts. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif[/img]
Just outt'a curiosity, what brand is your existing timing set? Assuming your 1st attempt was straight up?--of so, I'd save yourself a lot of unnecessary aggravation and install it there. It's basically within 2° of spec. With the 3.42 screw in the back, running the cam a couple degrees late won't hurt a thing, plus it'll help ward off spark rattle. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Welcome to the wonderful world of mass produced parts. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif[/img]
Just outt'a curiosity, what brand is your existing timing set? Assuming your 1st attempt was straight up?--of so, I'd save yourself a lot of unnecessary aggravation and install it there. It's basically within 2° of spec. With the 3.42 screw in the back, running the cam a couple degrees late won't hurt a thing, plus it'll help ward off spark rattle. </div></div> I agree. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I installed a "2 degree" Mr Gasket offset cam key... Now it is reading 5 degrees BTDC. So that answers my question as to whether you double the advertised degree of the cam offset key or crank sprocket keyway. Either way, the end result is doubled.
Grrrrr. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
This is the first time I have see the value of degreeing a cam during installation.
Bummer that the part is not right on specs, but so important to know now!! Ryan |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Same here. All these decades I always just threw the cam in and assumed it would be right. Rather enlightening to see what I have been missing all these years.
Next episode: What actually goes into the hotdogs you eat. Stay tuned! If you dare! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I just installed an old double roller setup from a prior engine and it came back with 1 degree BTDC when installed straight up. So it looks like it is the cam that might be slightly off since I got the exact same result with another timing set.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I spoke with the tech people at Cloyes and the 9-3512X9 timing set I ordered from Summit will hopefully do the trick. The nine-position gear has a "+2" positon that is 1/4 the distance from 0 that the "+4" position is on my old gear.
On the Cloyes gear, that "+4" position that is on my old gear is actually stamped as "+8". He indicated that is how their gears are stamped: with the actual correction factor, so the final result will be two degrees not four. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-img_1537a.jpg Fingers crossed...waiting on the UPS guy now. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Well, here's today's lesson in "You Get What You Pay For".
The Cloyes true roller set arrived today. Slipped it on in the "+2" position and voila! Perfect 3 degrees BTDC and 109 degrees intake centerline to match the cam card. I was all giddy - I just kept repeating the calculations and spinning the engine and doing it again and again just to make sure I was not hallucinating. I guess there's a reason they charge $100 for the timing set! Now we can finally get to buttoning up this monstrosity. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2-img_1538.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...3-img_1540.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Love it when a plan comes together ...
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I failed to mention it previously but you hit the nail on the head. Pay the extra money for a timing set. The cheaper ones will stretch within minutes of running. Most of the time it wont matter but when building a precision engine every little thing matters.. Glad the math is working out like it should. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I went through the exact same scenario with my 302.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
All buttoned up and ready to go back in!. One of the members at the PY site donated an old set of 1970 chrome valve covers to the project. I cleaned them up and they really woke up the snazzi-ness factor of the engine.
(Ignore the rusty exhaust manifolds. Hopefully any paint on them will burn off in the first minute or two, and I am aiming toward getting some repro D-port Ramair manifolds and a new exhaust system this Winter). https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...1-img_1548.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2-img_1549.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Well, it's time to stop for the night. Got everything installed. Still need to tighten the trans and converter bolts, install starter, radiator, fan, PS pump, etc. Got a lot done this afternoon.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...4-img_1550.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...5-img_1551.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Looks like it belongs there -- good job ... TAZ
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Nice work!! Looks great.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Looks great.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I had to wait til the boy got home from school to start the engine. I spent the morning and afternoon tightening the underside bolts, filling the radiator, and installing the starter: always a pain since you have to lift it and hold it and then try to get a bolt started while holding it with one hand using only your forearm muscle.... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img] You cant install it on the engine beforehand due to the fact that the starter harness is part of the engine compartment wiring and routes down from the top/front of the engine.
Anyway, once again, just like the 350 four years ago, I just clicked the key and she was running. No slow cranking, no backfires, no drama...I put the boy on guard duty to watch the underside for leaks, flames, gremlins, etc. I gave him a wet towel this time, instead of a fire extinguisher just so he wouldn't be tempted to start blasting away. I ran it for 15 minutes at 1500 rpm or so and then shut her down to change the oil and filter to get out all the moly stuff, additives, white lube, dog and cat hair, etc. Checked the magnetic drain plug and it was clean. Then refilled it with Rotella 15w40 and Lucas Engine Break-In Additive. I adjusted the timing and idle, and then took the car out for a test drive. Seems qute a bit peppier. It was getting dark by then, so me and the wife installed the hood and then I closed up the garage for the night. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...6-img_1556.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...7-img_1557.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...8-img_1554.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I really need to put a real exhaust on this car. You can hear it straining to breath. Time to start shopping for some RamAir manifolds and a real system to replace the factory log manifolds and the 30 year-old Walker 2" crimped pipes and transverse muffler.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Not to steer you one way or another but I ordered a Jones x-pipe, Pypes Race Pro Crossflow muffler then went to my local exhaust shop and had the guy fab up the pipes and made it look and work with stock brackets and clamp locations. Ran headers with 3.5" collectors that reduced down to 2.5" all the way out. Total I have less than $400 in the exhaust. Of course I already had the headers, reducers & hangers.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pye-mvr100 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/jex-xp4/overview/ http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...psfffade20.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...psb8db40eb.jpg <object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/NJTTZjai8DA"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/NJTTZjai8DA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Congrats! Your project is going considerably better than my '67 GTO rejuvenation. I got mine running last weekend and it overheated after a 5 minute drive around the neighborhood (I think the water pump impeller is cooked - no apparent coolant flow across the radiator when the T-stat opens).
Anyway, looks great. I'm sure it has a 'little' more power than the stock motor. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Did you replace the two rubber o-rings that go inside the timing cover on the transfer tubes? If you leave those out you get zero water flow.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I haven't touched the pump yet...that was just a guess. I did replace the T-stat already and I still get no obvious water flowing from the engine into the radiator. I'll definitely replace the seals, backing plate, etc once I have it out.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
All the pics and info and no video of it running?? Feel a little cheated.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]
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