Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

The rebody could of happened in Canada, and there is a possibility the seller was not aware of it. This is a terrible situation for all parties. It would be impossible/unreasonable expectation for the auction house to be an expert in every make and model to determine a cars authenticity. Buyers must be aware and do their own homework. Yes there is recourse for the buyer in these situations but if the homework was done the buyer would not be faced with all the aggravation.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you have proof (GM of Canada) like this car had that your car was a real COPO you could get a cert. with out it being inspected.. aleast thats what Ive always been told. Maybe other can Chime in??

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe far too much reliance is placed on GM Canada documentation in proving a car 'is what it is.' Up until, the mid 90's, part of the documentation package included the 'vehicles shipped' microfiche which showed your car in it's build sequence with up to 50 others. I have one of these sheets with 15 L79 Chevy IIs on it! Every detail is shown including the VIN, engine suffix code, options, color, even the key codes. The chances of more than a couple of these L79's still existing is remote.

To prove how easy it is to replicate one of these cars, I guy I know took a VIN from one of the L79's on the sheet and sent it to GM Canada for documentation, which they did. He then bought a six cylinder Chevy II in the U.S. and started to build a car exactly to the specs on the documentation. Having proved his point about how easy it would be to build a phoney documented Canadian L79, he changed a number of things so the car couldn't become 'what it isn't' in the future. It also maintains it's U.S. VIN and cowl tag. The bottom line is, GM Canada documented cars can be built from the info on these microfiche copies. There are untold numbers of these sheets still out there with all kinds of rare cars on them. Bottom line, just because a car has GM Canada documentation doesn't mean it's real.

Bob

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

"Buyers must do their own Homework"

In general I fully agree with this statement and I'm not taking sides with anyone when I say this,but what homework could a buyer like this have done to find out what he later discovered in his garage before he bid on it?
Are there people out there who knew something about this particular Camaro already?
If so,where are they and would they've spoken up in this day & age without fear of being sued/outed by another?
Do any auction houses allow perspective buyers to take cars apart before they drive them out on stage?

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

To Rick's point, I think the first place to go is right here. This board is the central repository of information regarding questionable cars, this silver rs is no exception. I don't think anyone here is going to wave a flag from the rooftop (well, maybe CSharin https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif ), but if the question is posed, an honest answer will be given - perhaps in public, perhaps privately.

Obviously, you can't tear a car apart right before it goes across the block, but there is enough time to find this board and ask. Some people don't ask for various reasons, and only come here afterwards - sort of like this buyer. If he had the expertise to find this site afterwards, why not ask about the car b4 he bought it? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Very few cars with a shady past are complete secrets from the sYc membership. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

I have to agree with Rick on this. There is only so much you can to to verify the car at the auction house. They would be a little pissed if you start removing parts to check numbers. There is no way an auction company can verify all the cars they auction off. They have to rely on the info the owner gives them.
James

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

Thats what I was thinking, how much time would one have to inspect a car which was coming up for auction. It sounds like the hobby/industry must make an effort to educate buyers as to what to look for and make the information very public. The only way this may change is to put enough skepticism in the market that in order to get the big money owners would have to really prove up there car. Unfortunately this would may have the effect of depressing values market wide but it may help solve the problem of "fake" cars which if left to continue will create big credibility problem moving forward. I think the auction people would be well served by putting some teeth into agreements made with sellers and being very public about it. If im going to the auction I would sure feel better about putting my money down if I knew there was a better screening process.

I agree that it is impossible for the auction people to police the market, but the more these unfortunate stories surface the more the auction business will suffer.

I may be way off base with this but my 0.02

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

For a car like that...and him being a dealer I would think he would have done a lot of homework before shelling out the bucks...or giving a check to them. The car was probably on the RS site for a good while to start getting feedback. You have to look into high dollars cars before you raise the paddle IMO.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

If you buy a home,dont hire an inspection company before the closing, and dont know what to look for yourself,you can only blame yourself when theres a foot of water in your basement after the first big rain. And you certainly cant blame the realtor. I think the problem is everytime there is a niche where money can be made,there will be people that want to get involved without the precise knowledge of what they are doing,thinking they have to act fast to get a "deal",hoping thier insurance policy for thier lack of education and expertise is litigation. If a buyer is continually lied to in writing regarding a sale ,well thats another story.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

Ditto that! If you want to play in this game, you can get an education the easy way - or the hard way.

Re: russo and steel chop job camaro copo
 

Here's an idea. Any car with a reserve over $100,000 should be required by the auction house to produce a conclusive picture of the cars hidden vins. It would also require a statement from the owner that the pictures and vins were not altered in any way.
It's a start.