Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

No I don't have anything against used car salesman at all. They're fun to listen to.Did you ever get that set of Torque Thrusts you were looking for ?

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

Look, you narrow minded guys that insist on denigrating my profession, I never said anything about wholesaleing. You guys read into it what you wanted to. I stated a very simple opinion and you are stating yours. Only time will tell who is right, if you guys turn out to be right and you sell your 75K 2002 ZL1s for a profit, I, for one, am happy for you and will be the first to admit my mistake. How many of you will do the same if I turn out to be correct? Either way, it is just not that big of a deal is it? You own a Honda dealership and part of a chain? Wonderful. Do you sell used cars at this dealership and chain? Do you wholesale cars? Some of you guys are so full of yourselves it makes me sick. Millionaires collecting cars for the fun of it? Trading and selling cars between your small group of "enthusiasts" and furthering the hobby? You guys just keep jacking yourselves off. I think it is pathetic. It is really hard for some of you guys to admit that it is all about the money, isn't it! Now bring it on, because your responses are totally predictable...
1)I'm not in it for the money, I do it because I love these old cars and I am trying to preserve history.

2)I just enjoy the thrill of collecting old muscle cars to bring back my youth.

3)Have you ever owned a 600hp 6spd car or driven one?

4)If I don't do it someone else would. (But they would be doing it for the money also).

5)Some people collect art, some coins, stamps or other pieces of memorbilia. I collect cars cause I love them. If someone else has one I really want, price doesn't matter because I am just a keeper for future generations lest they forget.

6) all the other myriad of excuses/reasons you "elite" will come up with


Supercars or food for your family? You guys don't have to make that choice, because, if you did the flames that are fixin to come my way, would never come.

You guys are not furthering the hobby you are ruining it for the average guy that has to pay $5000 for a rusted out, no engine, first gen Camaro that just wants to have fun and has no intention of trying to make a fast buck.

Tom (sYc) you can ban me from this board if you like but the holier than thou attitudes that prevail on this board would prompt me to say "No loss".

Bottom line is if you guys didn't think you could make a profit or at least break even, you wouldn't be doing it. I want you to know that this post is directed to a small and "elite" group of members of this board and not to the general membership or owners/moderators. The ones that find fault with my post know who they are and shall certainly respond with all sorts of insults and nonsensical retorts but when they crawl into their sheets, they will have someting to think about, which is the intent of this post.
To all a goodnight!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

If that was an open post for anyone to answer I will say no I didn't ever have a 600 h.p. 6 speed car....mine was a 4 speed...several 4 speeds since they didn't like that much horsepower...I would pick food over cars any day...cars are expensive toys...don't think that's anyones fault...any new car depreciates...a lot...the'02 ZL1's may too...maybe they won't...no big deal...no need to get acid indigestion over these things. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

"You guys are not furthering the hobby you are ruining it for the average guy that has to pay $5000 for a rusted out, no engine, first gen Camaro that just wants to have fun and has no intention of trying to make a fast buck."



Mighty powerful observation if I do say so!!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

I bought one of the two Indy Pace Cars to come to Wa. in '93 for $24k, traded it in on a new Chev 3/4 truck in 2000 and rec'd $19k, It is still worth less than the $24k and has only 2100 miles. Bought the '70 Deuce for $29k which everybody thought was too much, sold it for less than that to have it sold a few months later for much more. I guess my point is that what ever happens will happen and it is not worth everybody getting worked up over. If there are guys on this site that can buy a car and flip it for a profit more power to them. I am in this hobby for the love of the cars and feel that if I can enjoy a car for 10 years and get my money back it has been good to me. We show and share our car at 15-20 shows a summer. We had our Z28 12 years and had hours of enjoyment and sold it at a little more than break even. I hate to see this thing become about "Show me the money"!! I would love to have a new ZL1, but I don't think I would look to make a lot of money off of it (as my past history shows). I would have to "drive it like I stole it" and just hope I could recover a portion of the cost later when I decided to part with it!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]Jim

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

IF you will go to the for sale section you will find there is a member that is already selling his 02 ZL1. For what he has in it, and my personal experience, sounds like he is not selling it for a profit. Here is your chance to buy one of these supercars. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Then when you get done having fun with it, you could either sell it to you buddy, so he could have some fun with it, or you could sell it to some sucker for a profit. What would you do? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] If you sold it for a profit than you can take your other post back now and say your sorry. Or if you sold it to your buddy for a loss so he could to have fun with it also, you could prove your point and make everyone else an as#. But if it is out of the price range now what makes one think it will be more affordable in 5 years. If 50GGG's isn't affordable what makes 40GG's more affordable [remember we are talking about a car we are only suppose to have fun in and not make a profit on]especially when you can go buy a 5 to 9 grand Z28 mod it out, put better interior and stereo for under 10 GGG's.

As far as the old ones go, these cars were out of the general publics pocket book back then [remember we are still "just having fun" and not trying to make a profit], i believe over 7000 grand in 69, what makes you think they would be in the general publics pocket book range now. These cars that keep swapping hands are not rusted out no engine no tranny hunks of metal, but already restored, most back to original form, or orginal. If there restored then lets think what it cost to make orginal again. Well not exactly sure and maybe not even as much as what some would pay but it cost lots of money nonetheless.

Last, as far as value go [here again just to have fun and not for profit]remember when you could buy several pieces of gum in a gumball machine for a penny, now it is a quarter! Same with cars, then add time and restoration cost; you think that is cheap now days. Just think taking your car to a mechanic will cost around 50 to 60 dollars just to let them tell you what is wrong with it.

Hey I don't completly disagree; most these cars probably shouldn't bring in more than a 100 GGG's which is still out of the general publics pocket pock, [you can guess what I was going to type] and most would probably like to buy a new one for that price.

Products sell by Supply and Demand, supply high demand low price falls to the floor: Z28's=high supply demand low price cheap; ZL1(69 or 02) supply low demand high price just hit the roof and trying to break through.

Is this the fault of the hobbist or a law of supply and demand?

Just wait until the supply rises and the demand is low. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Not to sound rude but we all know neither one will ever happen. The supply is set in stone, and I will always want one! There is your supply, and I am the demand, along with many others.

Nuff Said [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] Now lets all show some love in here. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

"Nuff said" ?

No way, I'm loving this one [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

I doubt a small cartel of car enthusiast could effect the price of muscle cars to qny great degree. Now. Get the Hunt brothers involved...(I've still got hundreds of pounds of almost worthless silver).

I doubt many people are buying these new ZL-1s with the expectation of taking anything BUT a financial bath unless they are willing to keep the car a long time. And that is still an iffy situation. I plan on leaving mine to my now 3 week old (but 10 weeks premature) grandson. Given what he is going to go through I figure he will have earned it.

Yeah, I know there are a lot of things that will probably be worth a lot more than an old catfish, but, this is the car I've always wanted and I hope he will appreciate it. If not, no big deal because I'm going to love the car. Went over to Matt's to see it today in fact!

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

These issues of class warfare keep bubbling under the veneer of this site. These issues have been around since the dawn of time, so its not surprising to find them on a site dedicated to what are now potentially six-figure collectibles.

It's sad, though, because its all relative. For every envious middle-class guy begrudging a billionaire, there's a lower-class guy envying the middle class guy's 3-car garage and "regular" old cars. And there's probably some poor downtrodden guy in Russia or China who's pissed off that we're all bent about rebodying a car when he's only seen them in old magazines he was given, and will probably never leave his parent's apartment, much less own a car of any sort in his life.

Sure its about the money, SSRS350, for everyone. But you and I are probably more affected by it than some of the wealthier folks on the board. I know for some of them, while they certainly don't like to piss money away, the money they gain or lose on the cars isn't significant-they make their money elsewhere. But mostly I find collectors who make very real sacrifices in their retirement plans, and their houses, to facilitate the cars they buy.

So how are the dealers/wholesalers/semi-professional curbstoners possibly more affected? Well, you brought up the money thing with the list of wholesale cars. The whole tone was "look at the bath these stupid people took on these cars". I know in my case, the longer I do cars for profit, the harder it is to enjoy and blow money on my personal cars. It's very difficult to separate the many cars you buy to turn a profit on from the "keepers". If you're like me, and I suspect most are, it becomes very difficult to sink money into a keeper when you know in the back of your mind that YOU'LL NEVER GET IT BACK. It's not greed so much is that it runs counter to everything you're geared to do in your professional career. I think its unfair to play the "money" card when I think it colors your views as much as the ones you're targeting with these comments. It's the whole POT/KETTLE/BLACK thing.

So are there rich egotistical jerks on this site? Probably. Are there dealer-types whose views are distorted by their profession, at least compared to the hobbyist guys? Yes! Me and several others. Are there angry misanthropes who hate everyone who has more cars/money/land/women? Always. But you'll find this mix of people everywhere.

I know I'm stirring the pot a bit, but could we eventually get back to the stuff that drew me to this site?-i.e. GEEK stuff like "I have 70 build sheets from Norwood-built '68 Camaros and I think that the CU code in box 35 signifies HD suspension WITH redline tires but WITHOUT tinted glass..."

After all, geekinees knows no class boundaries. People of all backgrounds think we're wierd.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Any 2002 ZL1's left to buy?
 

i sell more used cars than new, i wholesale as many cars as i retail, and your point was? explain elite millionaires with money, last time i checked all of us men put our pants on the same way, see you at the reunion next year, you'll enjoy meeting us all! no pun intended!