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-   -   You Can't Make This Stuff Up! (https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=145134)

Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 04:39 AM

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Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 04:39 AM

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Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 04:40 AM

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Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 12:58 PM

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Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 12:58 PM

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Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 12:58 PM

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Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 12:59 PM

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Keith Seymore 11-11-2021 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart (Post 1570658)

Uphill. Both ways.

K

Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 01:10 PM

https://i.postimg.cc/Px0R47Dq/0.jpg

Keith Seymore 11-11-2021 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart (Post 1570549)
https://i.postimg.cc/Fs1fvWnD/5.jpg

Chrysler used a wind tunnel to design the 1969 Charger Daytona. They were able to experiment on what would yield the least resistance for the back wing resulting in the highest top speed.

When Plymouth designed the 1970 Superbird, it shared most, but not all, of the Daytona's speed features. And the one feature that they changed, to make it look more aesthetically pleasing was to slant the rear wing back. This caused more turbulence at super speedway speeds.

The top speed of the Charger Daytona was 200 MPH. The top speed of the Superbird was 185 MPH. The loss of 15 MPH . . . to make it look pretty. :eek2:

Aerodynamics is a crazy blend of art and science:

a) Airflow over a vehicle is not intuitive. You don't really know what's going to happen 'til you smoke it. Example: We introduced a duct at the front of the vehicle one time, looking for a ram air effect. It wasn't working like we expected so we brought it into the tunnel for evaluation. With the smoke, you could see the air was actually hitting the inside corner of the inlet, scooting across the opening and shooting out the outboard side of the inlet and around the vehicle. No air was actually going into the duct and in the hose. We would never had known (or even guessed this) without the smoke and video. The whole pickup truck "tailgate up vs down" and bedcover debates that just won't die (in spite of objective data) are a symptom of this.

b) You need to be able to focus on one small area. On the road testing incorporates the overall vehicle, which is fine for a final "capping run" evaluation, but for development work you need to isolate one area and gage the effects that can be attributable to those specific changes. Sure - the NASCAR and Bonneville guys to some testing on site with duct tape and cardboard - but if they're smart it's after spending hours and hours iterating and developing inside a tunnel like GM has.

c) Things change while you are looking somewhere else. So - the bad news is while you are focus on one area of the vehicle the other end can be changing without you knowing it. Hopefully you find out and can nuetralize the effects but if not it can generate a lot of confusion.

We had been working for years on Chevy Volt prototype and preproduction vehicles so we were quite anxious to do a "sense check" on the first saleable vehicles off the line. We put them in the tunnel and the results were .289 - not good because it was higher than expected but also because the media reports the values rounded to two decimal places = .29. We very much wanted the .28 value reported, so we had to be below .285 to achieve this.

After much angst and diagnosis it turns out the cars were building 5mm too high. This change in trim height was affecting our test scores, the advertising numbers and our fuel economy certification. Dropping the cars down 5mm brought everything back into line. Note that's 1 count of aero drag for every 1 mm of trim height, in this case (your results may vary).

With my duct example above, we could've changed something at the rear of the vehicle, changed the flow under or around the truck and suddenly our front duct could've started working. You never know.

d) Small changes have big results and big changes can have small results, like the example above. My boss used to joke that he would give his finger for .001 CdA (one "count" of drag). Little scallops and skegs and flanges that look like styling features can actually be aero enablers. Things like mirrors and door handles and grille openings are fairly significant aero disenablers, and can skew your early predictions of performance.

K

Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 01:34 PM

Keith:

One of the biggest problems with NASCAR race cars was air getting trapped inside the engine compartment. In essence, the trapped air is stagnant and becomes something that the car has to overcome to make speed. And of course, trapped air will not allow the engine to cool properly.

When Chrysler was doing the wind tunnel testing, they found that putting air vents on the top of the fenders would draw the air out of the engine compartment and allow the air to flow "through the car." But NASCAR said, what's on the showroom stock car is on the race car. No modifications. Chrysler didn't want to start cutting holes in the fenders of showroom cars. So when the Charger Daytonas went through tech, they explained that the "fender blisters" were there to provide additional clearance for the tires when the suspension flexed. This was a legal modification. NASCAR bought it and Chrysler was able to get an additional 5 to 10 miles an hour top speed because of them.


https://i.postimg.cc/RhRwF6vz/00.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/cLjwrNG6/00.jpg

You can see the size of the holes that were cut into the fenders. This feature was just as important as the rear wing and the nose cone.

Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 01:50 PM

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In the 1970 SCCA Trans Am season, Holman-Moody got caught cheating. The 70 Boss 302 has the dummy air vents on either side of the headlights. What they did was make them functional. When the cars went thru tech they were noticed. NASCAR said "close em up or we disqualify the cars."

Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 05:33 PM

https://i.postimg.cc/Sx6jpXfS/4n.jpg

1962 409/409 Bel Air Survivor with 29,881 miles

https://www.volocars.com/auto-sales/...vrolet-bel-air

Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 05:35 PM

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Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 05:35 PM

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Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 05:36 PM

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Keith Seymore 11-11-2021 05:56 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart (Post 1570766)

In the 1970 SCCA Trans Am season, Holman-Moody got caught cheating. The 70 Boss 302 has the dummy air vents on either side of the headlights. What they did was make them functional. When the cars went thru tech they were noticed. NASCAR said "close em up or we disqualify the cars."

We got caught at Indy in '63.

Farmer Dismuke walked around our car and noticed it had an aluminum front end.

He put the car in the "B/FX" class.

Dad fussed "B/FX? I've been running B/Stock all year! This car is a B/S record holder!"

Farmer replied "I don't care if you are Santy Claus: yer not running that car in B/S unless you show me 49 more just like it!"

So they parked the car for the day.

K

Keith Seymore 11-11-2021 06:00 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore (Post 1570791)
We got caught at Indy in '63.

Farmer Dismuke walked around our car and noticed it had an aluminum front end.

He put the car in the "B/FX" class.

Dad fussed "B/FX? I've been running B/Stock all year! This car is a B/S record holder!"

Farmer replied "I don't care if you are Santy Claus: yer not running that car in B/S unless you show me 49 more just like it!"

So they parked the car for the day.

K


Dad ended up driving Pete Seaton's car (far lane) instead.

K

Lee Stewart 11-11-2021 11:21 PM

https://i.postimg.cc/c4Zq6XqN/0.jpg

In a first for Chevrolet, a track-ready GT3.R version of the Corvette Z06 will be sold to the public for the 2024 racing season!

Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 09:18 AM

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Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 09:18 AM

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Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 09:19 AM

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Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 09:19 AM

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Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 09:19 AM

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Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 09:20 AM

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Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 09:20 AM

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Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 09:21 AM

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Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 09:21 AM

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Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 09:21 AM

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LT1vette 11-12-2021 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart (Post 1570878)

VERY odd colour combo !!! I don't remember green paint on a 65 Goat.
Must have got the paint for free......

Too Many Projects 11-12-2021 02:32 PM

Someone wanted Verdero Green and missed that too. Doesn't look dark enough.
Be interesting to see the trim tag to determine if it was a custom order color.

LT1vette 11-12-2021 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Too Many Projects (Post 1570909)
Someone wanted Verdero Green and missed that too. Doesn't look dark enough.
Be interesting to see the trim tag to determine if it was a custom order color.

Not even close!!! I don't even recognize that colour, except maybe US army 5 ton truck paint buffed!!! LOL

Some Mothers shouldn't be allowed to have children.... A travesty painting a 65 Goat that colour>>>>

Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LT1vette (Post 1570920)
Not even close!!! I don't even recognize that colour, except maybe US army 5 ton truck paint buffed!!! LOL

Some Mothers shouldn't be allowed to have children.... A travesty painting a 65 Goat that colour>>>>

1965 Pontiac GTO Hardtop

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-pontiac-gto-57/

60sStuff 11-12-2021 06:57 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Terrible match to the Factory color HH - Palmetto Green.

Plus you could not get a Red pinstripe with that color.
Only White or Black stripes offered on HH.

Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 07:09 PM

https://i.postimg.cc/X7w1rDtk/4q.jpg

Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 07:09 PM

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Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 07:10 PM

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Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 07:10 PM

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Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 07:10 PM

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Lee Stewart 11-12-2021 07:11 PM

https://i.postimg.cc/8cL4rjXz/4w.jpg


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