The Supercar Registry - 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

The Supercar Registry (https://www.yenko.net/forum/index.php)

- Supercar/Musclecar Discussion (https://www.yenko.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=79)

- - 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars (https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=84499)

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

Found this quote from Dave...I would think he would not forget about a door when he saw Toms car. If Dave had a change of heart he should have discussed it with Tom...I still smell a Super Rat

[ QUOTE ]
Good answer, Exactly why the "flip top" all fiberglass body came into being displacing the "door cars" (ie)Cars like Dick's 67

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

[ QUOTE ]
Well, after going back through that old thread I think it's explained pretty well by Dave. The Kirby car was the backup car for DH and they even had it painted the same(except for Jim Kirby on the front fenders, maybe his name was removed when Dick or Charley raced the car). There was only 1 68 Dick Harrell funny car along with the Jim Kirby and Burnansky(sp?) car. But Dick's car went through several different paint jobs throughout the season which is why it looks like 2 different cars. Dave thought Tom had the 1 and only Dick Harrell 68 funny car but without the opening door it appears he doesn't. From what I understand in reading through those posts there never were 4 cars and that DH only had 1 car. Case closed?

[/ QUOTE ]

I sorry but I just reread the whole thread and I thought he was talking about the 69 car when he said there was only one.

Here's the link btw:
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat...6&fpart=all

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

There is no need to further muddy the issue by digging up the Lopata funny car.
Toms latest pics show the rear window area with the recessed lip to set the rear window into. Ratpack stated something about the rear windows on the harrell cars being glassed in. In that case after removing the rear glasss you would not have a clean lip like on Tom's car. If all the pics out there show glassed in rear windows it would be hard to believe Tom's car is a Harrell car. If there are pics or a rear window with removable glass then that proves nothing.
I'm still waiting for USA-funnycar to come out of the closet.

Bigger yet is Val Harrells application to trademark the Fred Gibb name. What do the Rabbits think of that ? When they are sending their dollars to help Val in her feud with the Halls are they telling her to not use the money to take the Fred Gibb name from Helen ? Val has sold T-shirts in the past with the Gred Gibb name on them without asking Helen and Helen did nothing to stop her so why think someone would stop her now ? The name belongs to Helen and nobody should ever try to take it.

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

TOM C & Charley:
Is it known exactly how many Camaro bodies were used in NHRA thru 67-69?
As I am reading all of this, couldnt it be possible to determine every Camaro body sanctioned to run thru NHRA, get that number narrowed down, and then get images of all that were in those years, and then put all the images of the known Camaros ran side by side to get a better way of comparisons?
There must be only X amount of Camaros ran in those years 67-69, maybe most of those body/chassis remains are gone but there must be more information than what is present to find some close relative answer...
Tom C, I will PM you with something that I have found...

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

I can't beleive I'm actually going to post again..maybe this thread is like crack...who knows..It is hilarious to me that throughout 21 or so pages hardly ayone has thought to ask some questions and look at this in a logical manner..

Here are FACTS..

1) DH had a 1967 FC that was a steel bodied car with 2 fiberglass doors..

2) DH had a 1968 car with a funtional drivers door

3) Both Bruce Larson and DH had suffered accidents in their respective cars, and both accidents involved fire

4) In 1969 DH ran a FC with no doors

Now let's examine some hard evidence..

We know both DH and Bruce Larson were at the top of the FC orld in 1967 and both ran cars in which they had accidents and fire was involved..There are pics of the 1967 DH car in this thread take during the accident. We know both guys were switching to the then new all glass flip top cars for 1968. We know as professionals neither driver installed equipment that was frivilous and or a safety hazard. We know nitromethane was and still is a very dangerous propellant in regards to fire. So with all of that out of the way..I think I can show through a logical process why TC car IMO isn't the DH car..

1) DH drove a 1967 FC with a steel body and 2 TWO fiberglass doors in 1967. This car was supponsed by either "Yenko" or "Courtsey" at various times that year. The car started out wearing a paint scheme of red with balck top and later a yellow with balck top..I think the color scheme was a direct result of DH having a working relationship with gibb, as keep in mind Gibb's Lil Hoss also ran the same red blk top scheme. Now when looking at the 1967 car..we notice a few things..

1) the car has 2 fiberglass doors
2) the driving position is on the drivers side
3) the car has a SINGLE door handle on the drivers side...this is the side DH entered and existed (even a photo showing the door open after the fire
4) When looking at the passengers side..there ISN'T a door handle, since it would have served novalue..all entering and existing was done via the drivers side..

Now we have to think logically..DH wouldn't have added something to this car that wasn't needed or could have fell off trackside..and he wasn't trying to completely relicate a 1967 Camaro..or he would have added a passengers side handle

Move to the 1968 car..

Know DH had a 1968 car with a door and that Bruce Larson also had a door..now for the million dollar questions:

What is the purpose of a door handle???

Go research the web and look at pics of FC that are know to have a drivers door..

Bruce Larson's "USA-1"
DH car called "Car 2" by Tom
Mike Burkhardt

What do all three cars have in common beside a working door?

Answer a single door handle on the drivers side only..

Why..Well in the case of DH and Larson it would have been as a safety measure and in Burkhardt's case because he was too damn big!!

Look at all the pics of DH 1968 car (or cars if you belive TC)..they all show a single drivers side door handle only...No passengers side handle....This is the most amazing thing to me..NOBODY has asked TC why his car has a damn door lock cylinder?? Why would a race car, with no door need first a door handle and then a door lock cylinder??? If you assume TC has the DH car..who put in a door lock cylinder and why wasn't it glased over when restored..It certainly wasn't to replicate a real car..then you need hanldes and cylinders on both sides and all the DH cars do not show a cylinder..

Ok..let's examine some other cars..cars we know do not have doors..first the Kirby car..It was 1 of the 3 original cars built and yet doesn't have a door..or more importanly a door handle...After all why would a drag racer, install a door handle only on 1 side of a car onto a non-fuctioning door??? What is the purpose of that??? Can't be to replicate a stock car, can't be as a means to get in and out..hell you'd crack the 'glass applying weight to it..

Kirby's car was a DH "stable" car and yet no door..Why..Well IMO the cars were all built originally without the door being cutout..then the doors were cut and a door handle installed but ONLY on the 2 cars that had doors..DH car and Burkhardts..Ther are plenty of pics showing Kirby's car, and even to this day there isn't a door handle..Also the tailights of both Kiby's car and Burkhardts car are molded in..as was DH car..same mold..this is shown in photos..Yet TC car has bolt in lights...

Ok now let's look at EVERY other 1968 FC I can find on the 'web...no door handles..Platt's, the cars pictured here by various people, hell even looking just at other well known drag racers..Jungle Jim for instance..no door handles on cars..I honestly could not find any other cars, whether Chevy, Ford or Dodge that looked like they had door handles on them that didn't have what appeared to be a working door..

Now we look at DH and Kirby's cars for 1969..different body and different molds..yet BOTH cars actually have what appears to be fake (painted over) door handle on both sides yet we know these cars didn't have doors..Why??..IMO simply that is how the cars were molded..

People are saying they can't see a "door" in the pic Dave Libby posted and was replicated here..Look at the pic..there is a definite break in the tin work, multiple pieces of tin being used, and a vertical break appears to follow the "A" pillar would be..The angle of the pic and the fact the body is up will obviously distort to some degree this, but still somesort of break in the approxiamte area of where a door would be..

Now let's discuss the color of the car (or again cars if you are TC)..First the 1967 car was red with black..DH had a red balck 1968 car, that I thinkwas the first scheme for the car..Secondly he went to an all red car, and finally the more burgundy car "Gibbish" paint scheme..This all makes sense..DH and Gibb had a working relationship and they would have wanted the cars to be simialar in color..Look at Kirby's car..he even had "DH" on his quarters and a DH color scheme..they were stablemates..Also the idea that in the Libby pic the car appears red, vs burgundy makes no sense..look at the car and where the pic is taken..it is in a garage with flourescent lights, very close to it..flourerscent lights LIGHTEN up colors..also the pic would have required a flash...notice the tin work appears brighter on the lower half of the car..the brighter pieces are exposed to a flash more..hence the car can look more of a red vs a burgundy..

Ok..know let's discuss this "2 car" issue,..

We know DH had a 1967 car..one which it is assumed he stopped driving once his new FC became available..yet there is at least 1 pic of the car being ran against Burkhardt's car and Burkardt's car is a 1968 car..IMO the 2nd car everyone is reading about it really DH 1967 car..a car he still campaigned...a car still wearing a red paint scheme..so when comapred to the 1968 car in it's burgundy scheme (later scheme) any reference to it is "the red 2nd car"

I think i have laid out a logical idea as to why DH only had 1 1968 car..Ask yourselves a few questions:

1) Why would a drag racer on a professional level have a door handle on a car that doesn't have a door...especailly when that door handle is a GM handle and might fall off, cause someone to lean on it and crack the body,

2) IF DH put a door handle on car without a door why not put on the passenger side as well..both in 1967 and 1968???

3) If it was for looks or something else..why didn't any other racer without a door follow suit??

The door handle being on a car without a door makes no sense...

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

[ QUOTE ]
2) DH had a 1968 car with a funtional drivers door

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is actually a fact you would think Dave Libby would have remembered that...agree ? Follow the link above to all the old posts...

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

Greg, Funny thing yesterday when you called me.I show you Dale P 68 funny car had a door handle. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gifps the picture we both looked at.

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

Greg2001LS6
What is your invested interest in the outcome of all of this?

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

[ QUOTE ]
There is no need to further muddy the issue by digging up the Lopata funny car.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand, I don't really give a crap about this anymore, but was trying to understand the motive behind it all.

"Carry on my wayward sons...."

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

Kim,

We did and I think we discussed it looks like a steel bodied car..notice the stock appearing nose..very similar to the DH 1967 car..also a door is pretty evident there IMO..notice the pretty pronounced gaps..

My interest is simple..it is an interesting topic..you guys need to be looking less for a "conspiracy" and more at the cars..I can't say it any plainer...Ask Kim..

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

No Greg, I never said Dales was a steel car. You said it!! Then I said how come the info under it stated it was FILP TOP funny. You didn't say anything to that comment.You also stated it was a 68 not 67 because it had marker lights. The reason for my post about Dales car is because you stated above that "Ok now let's look at EVERY other 1968 FC I can find on the 'web...no door handles" I am going back to wall papering https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

No offense Kim,

I would think most can see that is a 1968 car..marker lights and all, no side vents, etc.....the car was actually owned I believe by a Charlie Wilson i think and driven by Dale

Either way..whether it is a steel rear car, with glass doors, like the DH 1967 car or a true flip top car it doesn't take the discussion away from Tom's car..

Also I guess Tom really has the 1967 car, since people don't make mistakes and Tom bought a FC with a receipt caying a "1967" car....

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

Greg..your post was so long I had to post you doing it. Greg

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

It didn't take me this long to read Gone With the Wind!

And like the famous line I've gotten to the point I don't give a damn.

Isn't it time to stick a fork in it because it is WAY over done!

Rick H.

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

Ok, well back to the topic at hand...
Charley:
Has there been any conclusions to the amount of Camaro bodies in total sanctioned in the first three years?
Being I was too young to know what was occurring then,
Was AHRA or any other racing ciruit using these bodies?
There just cant be THAT many Camaro FC shells around then as well as now....
What is generally accepted to this?
At this point, thousands here are interested in the outcome of this!
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

Rabbit attacks innocent guy...

Quick Someone get a carrot!!

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

RPOZ11. I have no idea. I think there should be enough here in all the pics if everything were just laid out in a orderly manner. I know Ed Gilpin was trying to lay out stuff where you could put the idea with the pic. I started to re-read the thread at the Harrell site but all I could do was imagine bad actors reading a script. How many phone calls did it take to decide who was going to say what ?

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

Matt Murphy had posted on the Harrell thread....
"Someone asked me if TC was told that the car he had was Dick's car and I talked to a guy who almost bought it before TC and he even told TC about the car. It was mentioned that the car could have been DIck's '68, but not sure. That guy did his homework and didn't buy it,"

Who was it that told Tom about it Matt ? He did his homework and didn't buy it ? Who is this guy and what did he find out ?

Still nobody going to say who USA-funnycar is ?

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

[ QUOTE ]
Matt Murphy had posted on the Harrell thread....
"Someone asked me if TC was told that the car he had was Dick's car and I talked to a guy who almost bought it before TC and he even told TC about the car. It was mentioned that the car could have been DIck's '68, but not sure. That guy did his homework and didn't buy it,"

Who was it that told Tom about it Matt ? He did his homework and didn't buy it ? Who is this guy and what did he find out ?

Still nobody going to say who USA-funnycar is ?

[/ QUOTE ]

HMMMM.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

I think USA1 is Matlock. This is so stupid its a joke...I think it's time to put it to bed and if Tom wants to do any more research then thats up to him...too bad there is no one with any credibility to ask anymore...seems they all got on the train to nowhere....

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

[ QUOTE ]
I think USA1 is Matlock. This is so stupid its a joke...I think it's time to put it to bed and if Tom wants to do any more research then thats up to him...too bad there is no one with any credibility to ask anymore...seems they all got on the train to nowhere....

[/ QUOTE ]AND THERE THEY GO!!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

See the post about the Vintage drag pics..looks like the the same car..and the story is DH sold the 1968 body and used the chassis under his 1969 car..Notice the colors, complete with shield, and even sponsor decals, and placement...The "Super Camaros" wording.. Also notice the door handle and what appears to be a working door..The tailights are molded in and the spoiler has the "vanes" seen in the DH photos..

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Snore ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

Greg, very nice posts, and pictures, as it shows both cars with an <font color="brown"> obvious </font> opening door, taking special note of the entire door gap. Now, point out the <font color="red"> obvious </font> opening door on this car, taking speical note of the entire door gap.

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/178837-bs-4.JPG

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/178832-BS-1.JPG

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

Someone mentioned that Tom thinks his car was a 2nd car..Not the car that is in the pics..and therefore "found"..I know this is his opinion. However the consensus is that DH sold the 1968 body and used that chassi for the 1969 car..Here we have photos of what appears based on the pics to be the 1968 body, yet on a different chassis...

IF Tom is correct..logically doesn't it stand to reason DH would have had the "2nd" car body made by the same person that made the 1st..the guy that made his "stable" mates (Kirby) car..so both the "2nd" car and Kirby's car have molded in taillights, but not the "1st"???

So we are to believe if we buy into Tom's thought process..DH had a funnycar made without a door and BOLT in tailights..installed a door handle only on the drivers door, when there ISN"T a need for one, ie: no door.. adding both weight and the possibility that it might fall off...

Then DH decides he wants another car built as a backup..forgetting that he actually already has a back up in the Kirby car (DH names is on the side of that car as evidence by photos), and instead of simply having another body made from the existing mold..He has the guy making his bodies..completely RE-ENGINEER the rear of the "new 2nd" car to have molded in taillights..WTF???? Why go through all of that logically speaking..especially mid season...

Not to mention there is possible evidence to suggeest DH was using the 1967 car later than 1967..hence when writen up the discussion about 2 cars..it is entirely possbile the 1967 car is being acounted for...one red/black (the 1967 car) and the burgndy car (1968)

Give me a break guys..DH was a drag rqacer..a very good one at that..The guy doesn't have time or the energy to put door handles on non-existent doors, or mid season have another body mold made for a back up car, when he already has the use of a back up car...1 guy = 3 or maybe 4 cars if you account for the 1967 car???? IMO not likely...

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

Greg, you did not answer my question. Judging by the door gaps, do these two bodies appear to be the same? Yes or no????????

I have been asked to provide proof to back up my theory, which I feel I just did, you need to do the same.

BTW, door handles on one piece bodies back then was not that uncommon. And yes, a few with real tail lights, to make the cars appear like their street driven brethens. Boy I wish that were true today.

So, YES OR NO??????

Re: 1967/1968 Dick Harrell funny cars

Actually "yes" it does..look at the door near the top where the rear edge of the door curves towards the front of the car...notice the area appears to have a silvery appearance to it..this is from light hitting the area..Notice in your corresponding photos (all three are of the same car, at the same time..notice the rock color and lighting..) where the sun is coming from..it is shining from right to left as evidence by the 3rd pic and shadow of the guy bending down to look at the car..His shadow is cast on the left of the photo..hence the sun is shining from right to left when viewing the photo..If the there wasn't a pronounced "thickness" from a door in that area the area wouldn't be the silvery in apearance..

Now look at your second pic...the pic taken from the drivers side but showing the engine and interior..notice the shadow from the body line on the front of the door..Notice how this shadow appears "staggered" or not uniform..This is from the sun hitting the car and because of a door there the shadow appears "broken"..if there wasn't a door there there would be a uniform line in that area..as the "scribed" door would be in line with the fender..

Also notice how the gaps appear larger in certain areas..because the 1st photo was taken almost perpendicular to the car shouldn't those scribed lines be uniform if in fact they are scribed..vs an actual seperate panel...

Finally with the body being in the air a door would more than likely add weight to the center of the car..hence body lines would be tighter..and not uniform..You guys are really funny..i'm not a "rabbitt" or anything else..you guys need some serious help..

Tom what can you tell us about the door lock cylinder??? I guess in restoring the car you didn't notice DH didn't use those...

Tom why don't we take these photos to someone that is an expert in studing photos..Someone like a Robert Groden. If he says you have no door in the pics then your case is certainly won and the value of your car shoots up...

Food for though