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Graeme I am truly enjoying watching you dismantle and clean , yet not restore this special Camaro. Thanks for taking us along for the ride. Rob
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Thanks for that Rob.
It really is fun cleaning up a car in this condition and trying to dial it back just a couple of steps. The more I get into this one, the more I like what's hiding in there. Around every corner, there's another little reveal and that is very satisfying. Glad you're enjoying the ride. Happy New Year to you. G. |
My 69 l78 has 804 on the inside of one of the rally wheels and also on the transmission cross member, I think its a job number. the car has the green T P B stamp on the firewall and I think the green might be night shift ?
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Yes...it is my understanding that the orange PTB stamps were from the day shift and the green was from the night shift. I'll look at the transmission cross member when I get to cleaning it up and will see if I can find any original crayon markings under the paint. The wheels all appear to be unrestored on the backs and I will clean those at some point to see if there are any more numbers to be found. There's a very good chance there will be other markings revealed as this process goes on.
Heading out to the shop to spend the afternoon working on the car. No better way to spend a new year's day. |
In talking with Jeff a couple of weeks ago, he mentioned that the previous owner sprayed the undercarriage black in order to cover up excess LB overspray that had hit the undercarriage when the 3rd owner had it repainted. In dialing back this black paint, I am finding Lemans Blue overspray on the outer frame rails, rear leaf springs and the lower surface of the fuel tank. I'm having to make multiple passes with chemicals to get to through all the paint so progress is pretty slow.
The original tank was painted black and I'm using some low VOC paint stripper to take off the layers of paint including the lemans blue overspray that's hiding beneath the black. Here's a couple of pics of the fuel tank being stripped and the rear leaf springs which are cleaning up nicely. If the tank comes clean and presents itself well, I will clean and seal the inside before having a paintless dent guy attempt to pull the large dent on the underside. If that doesn't yield the results I'm looking for, it will be getting a new fuel tank. As for the big dent in the original tank, I'm assuming someone had a jack slip at one point and it dented the rear of the tank rather nicely. I also pulled the 3/8" fuel line from the car today and I'm working that back to a natural finish as well. Easier said than done though. (lol) Heading back to the shop now. :worship: https://i.ibb.co/xg9GVPX/IMG-8550.jpg https://i.ibb.co/z6qcm95/IMG-8556.jpg https://i.ibb.co/pXXZvBV/IMG-8558.jpg https://i.ibb.co/9bvDRNg/IMG-8544.jpg |
If it's the original tank, I'm pretty sure it shouldn't have any paint on it...Joe
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Cutting through another section with Lemans Blue overspray. It's obvious the guy who sprayed this car last, didn't bother with drop sheets to protect from overspray (grrrrr). The second image shows the middle of the tank after the paint is removed. That big dent is located right below the filler spout and sits up against the rear valance. It makes for a real eyesore and if it doesn't pull out clean, I'll be storing this one away in favor of a new tank.
https://i.ibb.co/28FgCHv/IMG-8561.jpg https://i.ibb.co/6WnCff5/IMG-8562.jpg |
Love it GW!
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Nice work Graeme. To me the dent tells a story as does the rest of the patina on your beautiful mount!
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----Agree with Sam here, Graeme. Too minor a dent to replace. You are striving for a cleaned up very original ride. JMHO but treat it that way. Don't even try to take the dent out. It happened, stuff happens!......Bill S
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Yes...
You guys are both correct. I'll continue cleaning it up, will seal the inside and hang it back in the car without trying to remove the dent. Thanks for the lil' nudge as you guys are spot on, and that helps keep me on point. Thank you for chiming in. :worship::worship::worship: |
Agree with all, leave the dent, put it back in place. Nice work Graeme
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Sorry, I can't help myself, but I wouldn't change it to power steering either. If you aren't going to change things, then don't change things.
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Any decent PDR guy could get that dent out in 5 minutes !
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It’s interesting to see the various perspectives on what to do with a particular car. I love this car for what it is...a super clean 69 Z in cool colors. Would I like it less with a new gas tank? Absolutely not. To me, once a car is repainted, little changes to improve the car doesn’t bother me in the least. The dented tank would bug me and I would wonder if it might be weakened in some way from the dent. That would make me change it and save it for the next owner if they wanted to put it back in.
I also am wary of keeping original parts that might fail and cause damage if I was going to drive the car. The example that I keep remembering was in 1997 at the NCRS regional at Bowling Green. I was learning how to judge in the C3 Bow Tie class and a guy had a 74 vert with sub 2,500 miles and original tires. He didn’t bring another set for his PV test and decided to do it with his original Tires. As luck would have it, he blew a rear tire during the test and busted his left rear quarter panel! He nearly cried... |
Pulled the engine and trans out today to further access to cleaning and detailing. Things are progressing along but not at breakneck speed. Having fun though, I am. Once the engine was out. I was able to get a clear shot of the casting date on the back of the block. Adding that picture here for reference purposes. It closely matches the front stamp which I had not posted earlier. Block was cast 8 days earlier than it was stamped on the front pad for the build date.
https://i.ibb.co/BNJ23sJ/IMG-8609.jpg https://i.ibb.co/VJ5Rxqx/IMG-8668.jpg https://i.ibb.co/LvQ9qRC/IMG-8669.jpg https://i.ibb.co/9W4VSG2/IMG-8709.jpg https://i.ibb.co/Czx4h2f/IMG-8707.jpg |
With the hood off and the engine out, I got into the engine bay to get a better look at things. I also took some better pictures of the stamps and the firewall piercings for the speedo cable and cowl hood wiring. Even found this CF marking on the speedo cable.
https://i.ibb.co/tXdRZ6p/IMG-8679.jpg https://i.ibb.co/S5LqQ7Q/IMG-8675.jpg https://i.ibb.co/fkHCwdn/IMG-8676.jpg https://i.ibb.co/wBdLTw7/IMG-8677.jpg https://i.ibb.co/6mWHSB7/IMG-8680.jpg https://i.ibb.co/W35Jmft/IMG-8695.jpg |
At the same time, I also snapped a couple of pictures of the 309 D3 master cylinder and the 9204 brake booster. The brake booster is dated 268 while the US stamped 309 master cylinder looks to be dated 174. It was really hard to see these numbers until I rubbed a little paint off where the date was cast. Pretty sure it says 174. Going to remove the hard lines now and continue cleaning them up to remove any black paint.
https://i.ibb.co/YtBW15j/IMG-8673.jpg https://i.ibb.co/C1XFFbr/IMG-8674.jpg https://i.ibb.co/k4T635j/IMG-8672.jpg https://i.ibb.co/XWQ3DNc/IMG-8671.jpg https://i.ibb.co/99BqGkm/IMG-8684.jpg https://i.ibb.co/CK6YZ84/IMG-8694.jpg |
Transmission is now on the bench. Checked out the original 660 case which is mint with no damage ever to the front mounting ears, and no evidence of ever being abused. Of course, it has the 584 tail housing and 648 side cover, but what is awesome is that all factory hardware with correct head markings are still intact. Even has the original front bearing retainer locks, factory tag on the cover, and looks like the shifter mount has never been off. Going to continue cleaning the floors in the tunnel before this goes back in.
https://i.ibb.co/nQxCTsW/IMG-8696.jpg https://i.ibb.co/qrjNLrc/IMG-8698.jpg https://i.ibb.co/Ldp7kTj/IMG-8700.jpg https://i.ibb.co/JH8S2BY/IMG-8702.jpg https://i.ibb.co/qdLyTXk/IMG-8703.jpg https://i.ibb.co/4782vJ3/IMG-8704.jpg https://i.ibb.co/VH3C62P/IMG-8705.jpg https://i.ibb.co/x74Q6V7/IMG-8706.jpg |
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That was a rebuilt unit Tim, and I have no idea why it was in there? The original motor & pump came with the car and it tested fine on the bench. That rebuilt unit is already out of there and the original is going back in after I clean things up.
https://i.ibb.co/pX1skj0/IMG-8711.jpg |
The car appears to have most if not all original GM body and subframe bushings. For the most part, they all appear clean w/ no dry rotting except two which appear squashed and have some dry cracking. The front left rad support bushing almost looks like it was replaced with a NOS bushing as it's dead mint, but in saying that, 5 of the others appear untouched and they are very minty as well so who knows? If only cars could talk?
https://i.ibb.co/K9PMYD0/IMG-8716.jpg https://i.ibb.co/Dp9Kv8Z/IMG-8442.jpg https://i.ibb.co/ky2wfQ7/IMG-8443.jpg https://i.ibb.co/jVd4PRL/IMG-8444.jpg https://i.ibb.co/R4JyFRC/IMG-8714.jpg |
----I have to say that I have never seen a bushing with the word CHEVROLET cast on it. I have restored a couple of 69 Z's and probably missed that or they were already gone. Very cool!......Bill S
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Slowly working my way through the car and started washing all the old grease off the front suspension today. Found traces of an old yellow paint mark on the center link. Where else might I be successful in finding original paint marks?
https://i.ibb.co/fDm5s9n/IMG-8766.jpg |
My Z is full of suspension paint markings. Lots of orange blobbed onto the back of the spindles, and one of them has some blue mixed in, my center link has white and some other color. My tie rods have some orange on them as well.
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Outer tie rods should have some orange marks. My center link as a blue mark. Upper part of the spindles should have a white mark, mine does.
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Norcam, I posted a few pics of what I found on mine on my car's thread.
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Thanks... I just took a look at those for reference. Also, love how that booster and the parts from Steve turned out. I keep looking at this one knowing that I'm running out of time getting Steve to do another for me. Real tempting but I think I just gotta leave well enough alone.
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Tough to draw the line in the sand isn't it? Clean it up, evaporust the rust off and flat clear the bare spots, it will look much better.
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Never noticed that? I haven't looked too closely at them yet, nor have I looked at both sides but I am sure I will now. It's freezing a$$ cold up here this week and I have some business matters that are also calling for my attention. Never enough time in a day. lol
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*Personal preference and opinion* No to flat clear!!! RPM or Rust Veto by Cosmoline on bare parts. |
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Withdrawal has set in. 10 days and no updates! Weather and business are not suitable excuses! In the hospital? Too much Crown royal?
What up GW? Need my fix! |
bahaha
Seriously...it was freakin cold (-38) here last week until the arctic deep freeze finally moved out. I was also busy doing year end books for the business and was building a new customer service counter in the front of our shop. Sunday Jan 26 Update: OK Tim, Caught up with some business matters so I'm back onto the car. Well...for the 12 hours anyway. Next week is another matter as I still have a lot of business matters to deal with. |
Made it into plus temps here today so I got the doors opened to air out the shop while cleaning the bottom. The floors have really cleaned up nicely on the back half of the car. I removed most of the black spray paint along the frame rails and under the rear valance which was heavily fogged in when they sprayed the fuel tank black. In some places, a simple spray and wipe down with the graffiti remover revealed the original gray primer that was under the spray paint. This was quite evident under the tank, around the rear valance and along the backs and fronts edges of the rear frame rails where they must not have gotten much paint from the factory. I can see drip marks in a lot of the original primer and some blue overspray in other places.
I'm not going to take the cleaning any further than this on the back and I am quite happy that it's eliminated most if not all of the spray paint they hit the floors with. I'm now suspecting that this car had a lot of exposed grey primer up around the rear inner frame rails and the previous owners hit most of it with black spray paint to cover any bare spots and eliminate the grey. I say this because the stuff literally wiped right off any spots that were tough to originally coat at the factory. I still have some work to do on the outer rails and in the wheelhouses to knock back the gloss on the rust proofing they sprayed into the wheel wells. Once that's done I can coat some bare parts with rust shield, get the fuel line back onto the car and get the diff back under it. From there I will work forward and detail everything under the rockers while working up to the front of the car. Lots of work still ahead, but definitely like where this is going. It's revealed its character so it has! https://i.ibb.co/jv58MGm/Floors-1.jpg Up in the air so I can clean the rear floors and frame rails. https://i.ibb.co/5RQWQ4f/Floors-2.jpg Still has the part numbers visible where they are stamped into the lower drops. https://i.ibb.co/tbMPrXb/Floors-3.jpg Got most of the back spray paint off the rear rails. Lot's of grey primer exposed here. https://i.ibb.co/sQcG06y/Floors-4.jpg Now showing the original black paint on the rear floors ahead of the tank. I took this shot before I cleaned the pass side frame rail. https://i.ibb.co/y5nTVv9/Floors-5.jpg How it's looking before the tank goes in. Straps are now soaking in stripper. https://i.ibb.co/vvwkpD2/Floors-6.jpg Nice and clean up in the rear tunnel area. Leaving it just like this. https://i.ibb.co/P5T6jZn/Floors-7.jpg Upside down to take this shot but you get the idea. Clean! https://i.ibb.co/qgKT2V7/Floors-8.jpg The bare spots tell me the exhaust hangers were in place before the factory sprayed the underside? https://i.ibb.co/fdvnqMd/Floors-9.jpg Thinking the inner rails were mostly grey when the fuel line went in since all of the straps are grey underneath? https://i.ibb.co/7tgN9xk/Floors-10.jpg Notice how this black spray paint wiped off to reveal all the grey? See those factory drip lines? It tells me these bodies were hung high on the front when they primed the body? More when I get the diff back under the car later in the week. Then I'll double back towards the front of the car and detail anything missed on the first pass. Really having fun with this project, and love how things are revealing themselves. Big thanks to Mark Bulaw for the inspiration and tips on some of this. |
Good read for those that haven't seen it before. Nice work on the rear tub. What did you use to remove the black spray paint? I might suggest adding a heavy coat of Meguiar's #7 to hydrate the old painted surfaces.
CRG Paint Process Article by John Hinckley "Fisher Body - Paint Shop Operations The Paint Shop is broken down into phosphate, prime, sealing, and color departments; the body was suspended from an overhead conveyor with hooks at the firewall and at the ends of the rear frame rails through the phosphate system, and was transferred to a steel carrying truck before the prime system that carried it through the rest of the Paint Shop and through the Trim Shop. Phosphate System: The raw body shell passed through a seven-stage phosphate system, where it went through a series of enclosed high-pressure hot spray stages where it was washed to remove all the oils and debris from stamping, welding, brazing, soldering, and grinding operations, then the body was coated with a hot iron phosphate solution which "etched" the metal and provided "teeth" for paint adhesion. The final stage was a de-ionized hot water rinse and blow-off, followed by a drying oven on the way to the prime booth. Prime System: In the first prime booth, the entire body, inside and out, was manually sprayed with primer, and confined areas subject to corrosion were given a second coat of heavier primer material; this prime coat was then baked at 390F for 30 minutes. In the second prime booth, the instrument panel and rear of the shelf area (and the upper door and quarter areas of 1967-68 models) were painted interior color, and another coat of air-dry flash primer was sprayed from the belt line down. The interior color areas were masked, and the entire outer body was sprayed with gray primer-surfacer and the body was baked again at 285F for 45 minutes. The cowl vent panel was hung in the side window opening on wire hooks all the way through the paint process. After baking, the entire outer surface was wet-sanded, wiped down, and the body went through a short infra-red dry-off oven on its way to the sealer deck. Sealing: The primed and baked body passed through a long series of platforms where vinyl plastisol sealer was applied to all joints; floor pan drain hole plugs were installed and sealed, and the sealers were manually dressed in exposed areas. Floor pan deadener pads were then installed, which "melted" into place later in the color reflow oven. The body then went through a sealer oven to "set" the sealers on its way to the color booth. Color System: The bodies were sequenced to "batch-paint" by color as much as the build schedule allowed, to minimize the waste of thinner required to clear paint guns between colors. The interior was masked off, the body exterior was tacked-off, and it then entered the main color booth, where it got three coats of acrylic lacquer, sprayed automatically with vertical and horizontal reciprocating spray guns, with a 3-minute "flash" between coats, followed by a 10-minute bake at 200F to "skin" the surface prior to sanding. In the next stage, any surface defects were power- and hand-wet-sanded with mineral spirits, then wiped off prior to entering the final "reflow" oven. This bake lasted 30 minutes at 275F, where the lacquer surface softened and "re-flowed" to a uniform gloss. The last process for a non-stripe car was the blackout booth, where the firewall was blacked-out, the trunk was sprayed with spatter paint, and sound-deadening undercoat material was sprayed in the rear wheelhouses. The rear "cocktail shakers" on convertibles were suspended in the trunk for spatter painting, but weren't bolted in place until later in the Trim Shop, after the taillights and marker lights were installed. If the car required Z28, Z10, or Z11 stripes or a black rear end panel or rockers, they were masked and manually sprayed in the in-line repair booth/oven system after the reflow oven, including the cowl vent panel; spoilers were painted body color separate from the body, and were final-installed to the deck lid just prior to the repair booth. The rear window filler panel, deck lid and spoiler were masked and sprayed stripe color in the repair booth, and baked in the repair oven before the body went back downstairs to the Trim Shop. The paint guns in the repair booth were fed from manifolds that were part of the main color circulating system so that the repair booth used exactly the same paint the main color booths were using. If a unit required a major paint repair that couldn't be accommodated in the normal in-line cycle time, it could be diverted off the main line at the end of the repair booth into a parallel loop that ran in the opposite direction and fed the unit back into the main line ahead of the main repair booth; the re-run loop could accommodate about 20 units. Paint System Information The Fisher paint booth had pneumatically-driven overhead and side guns that reciprocated cross-car and up-down on trolleys, and were fed from manifolds on one side of the booth. Each booth had about 20 paint circulating systems fed from the main Paint Mix Room - usually 14-16 for standard colors and several others for thinner and one spare, and there were separate manifolds for hand-held manual spray guns used for interior and cut-ins. Every time that consecutive cars had different colors, all of those guns had to shoot thinner from the manifolds to the guns (through the floor grates) to clean out the previous color, then charge the line with the new color before they could spray again, and that had to take place in about four seconds. Paint came from DuPont in 500-gallon tote tanks, with paint mixed from the same lot distributed to both the Fisher and Chevrolet paint shops to minimize color match and gloss issues between the body and the front sheet metal. Special order paint colors were done by dragging 5-gallon pressurized paint pots through the booths and manually spraying everything; if there was a fleet or special order large enough, they charged one of the spare circulating systems, but that didn't happen very often - it didn't pay to charge a spare system for less than 100 cars." |
Read that once or twice before. It would be cool to see some pictures of them hooked from the priming process. The drips on the rear frame rail as well and from the tow boards back down under the floors tell me it must have been fairly high on the front hooks when it was sprayed.
All a very cool read on the subject. Thanks for posting that. Does anyone know if the tubs went down the line on a 45-degree angle while hung for priming? The drip lines would suggest it was sprayed while hung near to that angle. Quote:
https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/..._AS01?$zmmain$ |
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