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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
That's awesome Steve. I hope you don't feel like I was trying to hijack your thread. I just thought it was a decent parallel. Again, great job on the build and family.
Jason |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
No problem. Loved the photo. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Will not Plastigage give a more accurate measurement on a dry surface -- no oil or Lubriplate? TAZ
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
The actual area where the plastigage was placed is clean, though it's hard to tell in the photo. I wiped the application area clean of oil and lubriplate prior to the application of the plastigage and retorquing the main cap. After taking the measurement I then clean the plastigage off with a little brake clean and then reapply the lubriplate prior to reinstalling the main cap and torquing to spec.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I then clean the plastigage off with a little brake clean and then reapply the lubriplate prior to reinstalling the main cap and torquing to spec. </div></div>
Most people dont realize that leaving any of the plastigage on the bearing surface can cause a premature failure.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I sent that 1971 7041262 455 Quadrajet to Eric (Vintage Musclecar Parts) for some magic. Let's see what he does with it. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Last month Steve approached me about building a Quadrajet for this project. Of course I enthusiastically agreed!
The carb arrived Wednesday. Nice packaging job Steve! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img] https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32008-001.jpg I got the carb out of the box and immediately two things jumped out at me. See if you can guess the first one: https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32009-002.jpg Look closer... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32010-003.jpg Somewhere along the line, a ham-fisted "mechanic" has cranked this poor carb down to an intake with everything they had. Can you see the resulting bow? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32011-004.jpg Look at the gaps at the end of the straight-edge: https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32012-008.jpg And in the center of the top casting here: https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32013-009.jpg I've seen a LOT worse, but this one still requires de-warping. Now that the lid is off (not w/o a struggle, be back to that in just a moment), we can see she's nice and crusty inside. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32014-006.jpg Here's the next clue something was amiss: https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32015-004.jpg Not an OEM fuel inlet fitting...that usually means.... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32016-005.jpg Yep...a self-tapper. Someone's stripped the inlet threads at some point. Nothing we can't handle though. As I alluded to above, the carb didn't want to come apart w/o a fight. It usually takes me ~45 minutes to break a Quadrajet down. I fought this one for over 2 hrs and <span style="font-style: italic">still</span> lost a couple of battles along the way lol. One of these things is not like the other... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32017-007.jpg Both of them were stuck tight....with a lott'a heat and some penetrating oil I got one to break free, but the other wasn't having any part of it. Lousy little....&*@^*^!^$ https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32018-010.jpg I tried heat & Vice Grips, again to no avail--broke off flush, so I had to drill the remnants out from the backside. SO...the carb's 99% disassembled at this point, and the main body is currently cooling down on my de-warp fixture. Once it's done I'll de-warp the top casting, then it's back to the main body to remove the idle pick-up tubes. I don't normally remove the idle tubes when servicing a Quadrajet, but when one's this crusty inside, they really need to come out to make sure there's no corrosion in the main well and/or on the tubes themselves that could cause problems later on down the road. More soon, stay tuned. And before I forget, thank you Steve for letting me be a part of this build. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Wow, you do some amazing work. If I'm ever in the position of having one (or two) carbs rebuilt, you're the go-to guy.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Holy Bowly, Carb-Man. Looks like the Joker had his way with that quadrajet!
Sorry about that, Chief. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif[/img] |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
LOL...no worries my man, we'll handle it. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Dang....and I was going to say that the screws on the choke plate weren't indexed [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
Can't wait to follow along...and I've got to send something your way soon. Cruising season is fast approaching! |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I think that baby was in the St Louis flood at one time ... looked like some Mississippi silt deposits in there ... TAZ
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
The main body is as de-warped as it's going to get, and the lid is now flat. Sometimes it's not feasible to remove all of the warp from the main body since the outer corners (where the 5/16" mounting bolts pass through) actually get crushed slightly when the carb has been so badly over-tightened. If you manage to get the top of the carb 100% flat again, the bottom of the body where it meets the base will no longer be flat. You sort of have to split the difference. As long as the center of the top casting can seal against the main body where the circuits converge, chances are the carb will function just fine.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32025-011.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32026-012.jpg The idle pickup tubes were removed, and there was definitely enough corrosion in the main wells to warrant their removal. Unfortunately I couldn't get a decent picture down in the main well, so you'll just have to take my word for it. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32027-014.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32028-015.jpg Here is an OEM style fuel inlet fitting. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32029-016.jpg As mentioned earlier, the carb had been equipped with a self-tapping fuel inlet fitting. Thankfully the casting wasn't damaged too badly by the self-tapping fitting, and I was able to cut the main body for a Heli-coil insert to go back to the original thread size (7/8"-20) so an original style inlet fitting can be reinstalled. Typically, when the castings are cut for Heli-coils, most rebuilders free-hand the job which results in the threads not being square to the original threads. As a result, the inlet fitting doesn't make contact all the way around on the sealing surface which obviously results in a leak. To address this, most rebuilders install a thick Teflon washer to compensate for the fitting not being square. This Teflon washer will compress unevenly which allows it to make a seal all the way around. That said, it's pretty unsightly and sticks out like a sore thumb on an otherwise nice rebuild or restoration. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32030-017.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32031-018.jpg About a year ago, I came up with my own invention to be able to cut the castings for a Heli-coil square to the original threads. This allows the use of an original style thin rubber coated steel gasket. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32032-019.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32033-020.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32034-021.jpg While that may not seem like a big deal to most, to me little details like this matter. Please note that my tooling is proprietary, so I'm not going to show that process. At this time I'm only able to repair 7/8"-20 threads, I can not do the later 1"-20 threads. Also, my process requires there be at least a couple of good remaining original threads left in the casting to reference from. If it's stripped all the way to the bottom of the bore I can't repair it. SO...the carb goes into the clean line tomorrow. There's more to come, hopefully I'll be able to pick this back up within a week or so. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
And this is why I sent my GTO's Q-jet to you. :-)
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Excellent. I am definitely learning a lot already. (Note to self: find carbs in better condition!) [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
We measured the connecting rod oil clearance today with Pastigage. The boy's calibrated eyes said they were .0015.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-img_1465a.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Here's the carb post cleaning:
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2135-010_2.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2136-011_2.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2137-012_2.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32138-013.jpg Not much of the original finish left to speak of. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2139-014_2.jpg After de-uglification: https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2140-015_2.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2141-016_2.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2142-017_2.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2143-018_2.jpg Compare the inside of the float bowl now to the pic posted earlier: https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-32144-024.jpg The steel hardware will go out for plating shortly. As soon as I get everything back and get the carb back together I'll post another update. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
WOW! It's naked! Amazing difference before and after. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Carburator looks like a new casting now. Nice stock appearence again.What cfm is it.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I think it is 750. Maybe Eric can give the correct info.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Yep -- doesn't appear to be a "bump" in the venturi ... TAZ
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I must make a confession;
I wasn't sure I was going to be able to save this carb. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/blush.gif[/img] When I started to build the sub-assemblies, I realized this carb was warped a <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">lot</span></span></span> worse than I'd originally thought. While the bow wasn't <span style="font-style: italic">super</span>-bad at the front, the carb was warped like hell in the center of the casting. I noticed this somewhat during dis-assembly but didn't realize how bad it was until it started to go back together. I actually had a little trouble getting a few of the screws started because the body still had some warp in it that I simply could not get out. That said.... drum-roll....... It runs. Not only does it run, it actually runs pretty damned good. It idles beautifully at ~750 rpm, transitions nicely on the way up, and the throttle response is razor-sharp. I was all but certain this carb was going to kick my ass and make me look like a chump. Whod'athunkit?!? I didn't have a correct pull-off in stock so I have to order that in, but other than that it's done. I'll post a couple of pics and a live test video later. *whew*. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Awesome! For a junk carb that was thrown in with the engine block I bought, it's sure nice to know that there are artisans out there who can turn a sows ear into a silk purse. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
I'm out in the garage today. Just got the 350 engine pulled out with the help of the wife and the boy (both of whom promptly ran off to go shopping and back onto the Xbox, in that order).
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...1-img_1485.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
A couple of pics on the test engine. Again note I didn't have a correct choke pull-off in stock so I just capped off the vacuum port so I could run it.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2427-001_2.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2428-002_2.jpg There are two small tabs on the top casting that are meant to act as a closing stop for the secondary air doors. Unfortunately on this carb, one was broken off completely and the other was badly worn. Since the carb <span style="text-decoration: underline">must</span> have some means of preventing the secondary air doors from trying to close <span style="font-style: italic">too</span> far, I employed a common trick of using a small flat washer under one of the rear-most screws to act as a stop. Ain't pretty but it works, and it saves an otherwise junk (and somewhat hard to find) casting from the scrap heap. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2429-003_2.jpg Click the pic below for the video. Please note the air/fuel readings aren't entirely accurate on the meter. The rings in my test engine are beyond shot, and as such it huffs a considerable amount of oil which skews the readings. (I really need to get that poor thing rebuilt, but I just can't find the time!) FWIW, the ~12.5 a/f ratio on my meter directly correlated to a ~14-1 a/f ratio on Kammers dyno, so you can extrapolate from there. http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d7...psqun9i1rm.jpg Steve, I'll give you a shout next week as soon as I've got the pull-off in. Thanks again for letting me be a part of the build. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
That is way too cool. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
You know, Eric, I consider it your fault that I am going to have to detail the engine compartment to match that snazzy looking carb. And then I'll have to repaint the 25 year old paint job on the car... And then update the suspension... another example of "Give a mouse a cookie..." |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
BTW, what vacuum ports are full vacuum and what are ported? I usually run the distributor vac advance off of the full vacuum coming from the big cast aluminum "T" that comes of the back of these Pontiac carbs. If this one actually has a port for the vac advance I'd be happy to use it. (It also needs to use of of the vac ports for the auto trans vac modulator).
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
This carb only has two vacuum ports aside from the one for the choke pull-off:
The one on the base is manifold, the one on the top pass. side above the pull-off port is ported. The back of the base does have the 1/8" pipe thread boss if you have a vacuum tree for it. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
BTW, I wouldn't worry too much about having to detail the engine bay because of the carb...that's one of the cruel ironies of my profession--all my hard work is usually hidden beneath a big ugly-assed air cleaner lol.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Ran into the first engineering problem of the day...
The dipstick tube assembly that routes the dipstick away from the crankshaft and toward the oil pan sump had a little glitch in translating to a block five years younger. See if you can identify the issue: https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...9-img_1492.jpg Yes, the bracket was designed for a 1975 block that had the #3 main cap with the two mounting bosses not a 1970 block that had #2 and #4 caps with the mounting bosses for a windage tray. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...0-img_1493.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
So I went to the old bolt bucket and found a Pontiac cylinder head bolt with the stud that the negative battery cable mounts to. It was the perfect stand to mount the modified bracket to. Thankfully 455 blocks are predrilled for four bolt mains and the bolt just screwed right in. (along with some red Loctite to keep it in place).
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...1-img_1495.jpg And after two hours of test fitting, drilling, heating, bending, reheating, and rebending, the bracket mounted up nice and tight in the correct position. I used red Loctite on the nut as well as centerpunching the edges of the nut to crimp the threads slightly. I test fit the oil pan with the dipstick tubes in place, as well as spun the crank to make sure it was a long way away from the reciprocating assembly zone. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-img_1499a.jpg https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2-img_1496.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Nice fix. I have the same dipstick...but I'm using a '70 YH block which I believe (hope?) has those mounting bosses!
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
If you're using a 70 block you probably will run into the same problem. They ran a windage tray and the lower dipstick tube attached to it. Do you have the 70 tray and dipstick tube?
The later model years got rid of the windage tray and used an oil pan with a welded-in baffle, instead. Since I am using the 1975 baffled oil pan i wanted to retain the matching dipstick assembly. |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Here's a shot of an earlier block with the factory windage tray mounted to the #2 and #4 main caps. When they went to the baffled pan, they stopped using the windage tray.
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...indagetray.jpg And the later baffled pan that replaced it. It prevented oil starvation. Due to the gentle slope in the center of the pan, the non-baffled pans were notorious for the starvation issues on deceleration when all the oil tsunami'd to the front of the pan causing the oil pickup to suck air. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...6-cimg5864.jpg |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Steve, just curious. How do you ensure the dip stick sits in the proper location to give you accurate oil level readings?
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
The lower half of the tube is bent at a specific angle and connects with the intermediate tube which is pressed Into the block. So, other than adjusting the swivel left or right, the angle is preset.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
It seems like if you are worried about the dipstick possibly being inaccurate than you can verify on the initial fillup if you know what the oil capacity is supposed to be. Looking great Steve! Something tells me this isn't going to be a Grandma's car anymore. I imagine you are going to run a bit more aggressive bump stick. Are there any other changes coming like a converter or rear gears?
Jason |
Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
The cam is a Summit Racing #2802. It's the trick low budget ($78) hot cam for this setup. It came highly recommended from several Pontiac engine builders. Rear gears are 3.42 which may even be too much already. My SD455 has 3.08 gears and runs right in the most potent portion of the torque band.
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Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
Interesting. I would have thought the gears would 2.XX.
Jason |
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