Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

It is very true that there are true rarities that will command value whether having factory paperwork or not..The problems arise though when we start equating all cars of a certain type ie..Yenko Camaros, COPO's, etc... A COPO without any other docs shouldn't sell for thesame thing as a factory doced car...but they do..that was the point I was making..Until the hobby realizes that the prices and rationale behind the current prices is based on over specualtion and a "perceived" rarity..they made quite a few COPO's and LS6's..then people will continue to pay too much for certain cars and once the market falls or self corrects there will be a lot of money lost..We can always equate this current "musclecar" market to the stock market of 1998-1999..Way too much specualtion followed by over priced goods, followed by a self correction= lots of $$ lost....

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Hey I know Cletus.. and he's as honest as the day is long. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

This argument could go on forever... as i think Jeff H put it... each situation and each buyer is different. What is essential for one person might not mean squat to the next, and vice versa. Some valid points have been made on both sides of the fence.

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

It's not a "perceived" rarity though.....a COPO is a lot more rare than an LS6. Prices will refect that.

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

That is a matter of personal opinion...I wouldn't take 95% of the COPO's out there for the green LS6 if one is judging rarity..It would be very hard to sell 1 of 10-15 "pilot cars," for 1 of 500 or so COPO's, and I have verifiable factory docs to boot along with what is customary on COPO's (POP, owner history). Especially when the LS6 is considered by many to be the pinacle of factory performance by Chevrolet on a regular production car (more HP, bigger engine, same ET's, etc.) during the "musclecar' era. Whether my description of "rarity" is yours or not can be debated, but we can agree to disagreeon certain cars. I think only time will tell once this current market "self corrects," i'm sure the guys in it making tons of money in 1988-89 never thought it would end either...but it did. There was a time not too long ago (a decade) a COPO was 30k and an LS6 was the same...maybe if we got back to that it would weed out the specualtors and non-enthusiast. The guy that truly appreciates the cars (whether he wants a COPO, LS6, or a 440 sixpack) could again own one and this topic would be pretty much pointless. As I've often said..if I want an investment I'll personally buy real estate or "tradtional" investments (blue chips) as they are more easily liquid and the "masses" will more easily see the "value." It is sadly a topic which will never be completely closed, as it is based on belief.

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

[ QUOTE ]
..Way too much specualtion followed by over priced goods, followed by a self correction= lots of $$ lost....

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="blue"> Greg, was there really money lost over the long term? No, only for a brief period if we are talking about muscelcars. LS6s, Z/28s, etc lost some ground in the early 90's, then "corrected", but are now higher than they were during the peak. Ferraris like the F40 peaked and tanked and have never recovered, but musclecars have gained overall since the last boom. </font>

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Morris,

I think it is more of an issue because the current boom in musclecars followed the largest boom in traditional investments. The same guys paying 150k for a Yenko Camaro are the same guys 5 years ago dumping tons of money in the market..That tanked and hasn't fully recovered so they are looking for a windfall elsewhere..If the accounting scandals of 2 years ago and other events that surpressed the market wouldn't have happened, we probably would have already seen the turn down already IMO..At what point is it too much,...keep in mind that the people willing to pay 275k for a Chevelle are the same people here..Put these cars onto the open market via auction or outside of a website devoted to it and see what it does..That in my opinion is a truer sense of "market value" If these cars (or really any car) were great investments they would be easily specualted all the time..look historically and what do you see..The market crashes in 1987..musclecar and other "commodites" go up..the market recovers and prices fall..the market tanks and prices on muslcecars go up...when the market rallies and people realize the only ones paying 275k for certain cars are their buddies then they will bail out as well..the musclecar hobby benefited from baby boomers that grew up with them and the prices reflect disposable income..If you want to see if they are true investments wait til the guys in my generation (30's..) are willing to pay 250k for one..I highly doubt we will as a whole..The true test of a solid investment in my mind is one that stands the test of time and market...real estate, art, gold, etc.. It becomes a domino effect when one gets out they all will..the Ferrari F40 was way over specualted as most modern "high speed low drag" cars are..The market prices now reflect the over specualtion..Keep in mind at that time it was still a brand new car...that was governed by all new car laws..they depreciate..

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

I wasn't talking about pilot cars !! Can you imagine what the first pilot COPO Camaro would be worth ?? Was there a pilot for them ?...and we all know rare doesn't necessarily equate to valuable...440 sixpacks huh ...I would love one of those one of these days !

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Greg, I don't think the limited production performance car market will tank like it did before. This time around a lot of people realized how limited the number of surviving cars is and if you want one, you better grab one. There are only so many ZL1's to choose from, same for JL8's, L89's, LS6 convertibles, Yenko's, etc. And if all the documented cars' owners don't want to sell, then the undocumented #'s matching cars will climb to the same price level because that's all you have to choose from. Plain old Z28's and SS350 cars may drop back down as well as SS396 Chevelles because the supply is bigger than the demand.

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

OUCH...........THESE WISDOM TEETH!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

[ QUOTE ]
The true test of a solid investment in my mind is one that stands the test of time and market...real estate, art, gold, etc..

[/ QUOTE ]

In my opinion, as myself not being from the baby boomer group, is that these classic muscle cars...supercars in particular are pieces of American art themselves from a time in modern America's history were it seemed (at least from my perspective) these cars were the definition of the time just like different sorts of art work have been (paintings, sculptures, pottery, architecture...etc) defined other periods of history.......the generation that was young (young, being a relative term https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif) when Duesenbergs were new are not the majority of the ones buying them these days (if my math is correct)....just my humble opinion and 1.5 cents worth from one of the "young guys".....PARTY ON! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif