Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Cringe away:-)

As far as I know the Chevy rear is the only stronger alternative that is PSMCDR compliant.

Ryan

PS:
Took a little time last night to discuss with Stephen Minore the list of items to go to MASCAR. I think we have everything covered.

PPS:
I even got a 7029250 1969 350 Carb (Non W31 7029255) to use for the PSMCDR engine.

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Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Nick Morocco sent the assembly pictures of the M22Z:-)

Those are some strong gears:-)

Ryan

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Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

What 1st gear is in the Muncie? Knowing that will help determine what rear gears to choose. You need some grunt to get that heap moving; trust me, I know all about it. You'll likely need cam specs, rear tire height, trans gears and a guess at trap rpm to figure final gear ratio. I'm gonna suggest a 2.52 1st gear, H70 tires (if they are allowed) and 3.91:1 will get you in the ballpark. You surely don't wanna run out of engine at 1000 or 1100 feet. Get a shift light and start out at 5500 and see how it all feels. I've not run those rules so I have a different set-up, but I bet I'm fairly close.

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

I wouldn't say the Chevy 12 bolt is all THAT much stronger---it is SOMEWHAT stronger. The real advantage of using it is the amount of support (both Chevy and aftermarket) in terms of parts availability and tech help from other racers. Tweed, Wayne, Jeremy W. and others (myself included) will tell you that "back in the day", we made do with Oldsmobile differentials......sometimes it was all we had!

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Thanks Dave,

The M20 (2.56 first gear) that was in the back seat of the car when I got it is all rebuilt. This trans may be used for street, TBD.

The M22 (2.20 first gear) that was in the car when I got it is rebuild. This trans will probably sit on the bench.

The M22Z (3) that Nick just finished is a new gear set with an extra wide ratio. 2.98 first, 2.04 second, 1.47 third, 1 to 1 fourth. This trans is optimized for a reasonable set of highway gears like my 3.42's. This trans will most likely be used for PSMCDR and street duty.

PSMCDR only allows one size up of tires so G70-14 is the largest for me. I will most likely use F70-14's but TBD.

Rear gears are up in the air until the engine is run on the dyno, the overall power curve will be used along with all the factors you mentioned to select the rear end ratio.

Ryan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Sounds like you're on the right track! Muncie-cubed.......you are the MAN! Hoping to get your water pump numbers tomorrow (12/29/16).

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Olds O-type rears have positively retained axles, which is nice, and aftermarket axles are available. The downside is the limited availability of new gear sets (3.42/3.91 only). Older (some NOS) 4.33 and 4.66 sets are around as not many people use them.

The Chevy 12 bolt is typically C-clip from what I've seen, and the value is higher, so they are more expensive up front once you buy the housing and have new ends welded on for positively-retained axles. But, you have any gear ratio available and plenty of parts availability.

Just remember if you plan to ever switch back and forth you have U-joint differences and a driveshaft length change. I don't see either option being a strength issue for PSMCDR, though I wouldn't recommend being on C-clip axles with a 4 speed car (my opinion, I'm sure 10 people will tell me I'm wrong). There are people that have broken axles on polyglas. I wouldn't worry about it from a purist standpoint, just whatever works better for you. I haven't decided what I'm doing with mine, though I have to decide somewhat soon.

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Thanks Dave:-)

Thanks Luke:
I agree with your comments, but no opinion? Come on let me have it:-)

Can a 1350 yoke be added to an O-Type?

I like the retained axles, and if I use a Chevy it will have c clip eliminators. (I think there are bolt on kits? )

I will verify total cost either way, but I like that the Chevy is larger, and more HD all around.

Ryan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

"I like that the Chevy is larger, and more HD all around."

The smartest thing you've said of this entire thread
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]

Dan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

If you use C-Clip eliminators....you risk the chance of the axle seals leaking if you drive the car on the street. I'm not apposed to it but that is one of the downfalls and very common.

On a side note.....I don't use them but maybe I'm lucky! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

I don't want leaks!!

Keep the info coming!!! Totally in research mode about a HD rear end.

Ryan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ryan1969Chevelle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Dave:-)

Thanks Luke:
I agree with your comments, but no opinion? Come on let me have it:-)

Can a 1350 yoke be added to an O-Type?

I like the retained axles, and if I use a Chevy it will have c clip eliminators. (I think there are bolt on kits? )

I will verify total cost either way, but I like that the Chevy is larger, and more HD all around.

Ryan </div></div>

I really don't have an opinion either way. I believe you can put a 1350 yoke on an O-type, though you still won't be able to share driveshafts with a Chevy 12 bolt due to length differences. The O-type rear uses a 3R U-joint which is at least as strong as a 1330. Don't use bolt-on C-clip eliminators, either buy the best C-clip axles you can (31 or 33 spline) or have a chassis shop weld new ends on the housing that can retain a bearing pressed on the axle.

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ryan1969Chevelle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't want leaks!!

Keep the info coming!!! Totally in research mode about a HD rear end.

Ryan </div></div>

I will have a fresh 12 bolt available in the coming months [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img]

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

More good info:-)

I have to look under Oldsmobiles at PSMCDR:-)

Ryan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Please PM some details Albert:-)

Ryan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

My pleasure Ryan.

Keep us posted on the progress. And it looks like things are really falling into place for you.

Paul

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ryan1969Chevelle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I have to look under Oldsmobiles at PSMCDR:-)

Ryan </div></div>

that'll be a little hard to do if you plan on running the car in 2017 if you are using that look under to determine what rear axle you'll use.

I'll save you some time, almost all will be the type O (and some will have some steep gears like mine - hint hint). I know Dave H had a C 12 bolt at one point under the Ram Rod. I also know he swapped it back to a type O. He may have C 12 under the 66 now, I'm not sure.

and to make you feel part of the PSMCDR participant family, I'll break you in now. So get used to this banter - cheater [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/laugh.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/laugh.gif[/img]

Seriously though, I do understand the C 12 bolt usage. But if you are getting the max'd out MASCAR motor, I HIGHLY recommend some steep gears. 3.23s and 3.42s won't cut it. Don't be afraid of the 4.33s. 3.91s would be the bare min I would consider for a high winding small block. In C 12 bolt speak, I believe 3.90, 4.33 and 4.56 are your options.

FWIW, the racin cajun ripped the pinon out of the 9&quot; Ford of his BOSS 351 at Stanton, so anything is possible

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Thanks Chris:-)

I am getting O-Type advice from a few sources such as Brian Trick and pricing for 31 spline axles, antispin unit and gears. It adds up quick.

Agree 3.91 is the minimum, the trouble is I put a lot of eggs in the M22Z basket for all around use, and a more appropriate drag race only trans would be the M22W.... does this mean 4.33's and the 3 to 1 first gear would be too steep? In this case I would use the M20 but it is a normal strength trans, not HD like the M22, or M22Z.....

I want to calculate rpm at various speeds, for example 100 mph with 4.33's and 26.2&quot; tall tires.......? I need to look at various PSMCDR spread sheets to see the Average MPH for similar cars and gear sets, and do the math.

For the PSMCDR drive train I am planning to use numerically high gears but need to make sure I don't go too high for the engine rpm range.

All of a sudden I am focusing on PSMCDR:-) nice!!!

Ryan

PS: my schedule includes a lot of activities and PSMCDR is a 2018 goal:-), not 2017:-(

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

PS: Benoit's crowd pleasing antics are tough on his cars:-) even a Ford 9 inch is no match for his driving style:-) I have seen parts fly off his car:-) (leaf spring clamp clinking down the track)

Who else does a burnout in reverse in the burnout box, followed by jamming his LS6 into first or second and making candy cane marks? I have never seen anyone else do this:-) He wins!!!

Ryan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Enough of all this talk......get back on the car, your all over the place....where is the Rotisserie??? Get back on track.....at this rate, you will be saying.....2019 [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif[/img]

Just helping.....not criticizing [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Dan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

January I am getting back on track:-)

Have you ever heard this before?

Ryan

The rotisserie is otw and I have to start preparing for the move:-)

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Perfect.....January begins tomorrow [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

See you soon.

Dan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Ryan -- here are two pics of my W-30 taken in early 1970 ... ordered it in Vietnam and picked it up at Bob White Olds in Green Bay. TAZ https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...9-442_w_30.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...570-69_442.jpg

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Neat pics, Craig!

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Very cool pictures:-)

Love them!!!

Ryan

Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

'

Way cool Craig!
Love to see/hear more, especially about the HO stripes.
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]
~ Pete

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PeteLeathersac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'

Way cool Craig!
Love to see/hear more, especially about the HO stripes.
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]
~ Pete


</div></div>

As &quot;Kids&quot; we did crazy things ... like take a brand spankin' new 442 and paint gold &quot;Hurst&quot; stripes on the sides -- with a &quot;rattle can&quot; !@#$ The hood gold stripes were factory ... TAZ

PS -- stripes didn't turn out too bad though ...

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

The stripes turned out great:-)

Cool memories!!

Ryan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Cool thread and will be one neat car! Glad I could help out Ryan.

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Dan how's the progress on your 70 Buick post coupe?

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Dave,

Thanks for asking.....I have finally found the great set of front fenders [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
I appreciate you asking.....but this thread is all about Ryan's 1969 Olds W-31 [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Dan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Don't worry Dan, this build thread is not tightly moderated:-)

We can even post pictures of chicago's finest food on here:-)

Ryan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Ryan pulled up to my house on Saturday at 8:00am.....I had Ryan park his car in my backyard.....we hopped in my car and we were off running. I drove Ryan to see some of awesome car collections.
It's always fun......when two car guys make plans to see some fantastic cars, visit other great car guys, pick up some nice original GM parts and eat great Chicago Food.

Let's do it again soon [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...psumbxbivz.jpg

Dan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Hey, Dan took me there too... Fun times!!!

Let me know when you plan to schedule a southern Alberta tour.

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: L78M22Rag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey, Dan took me there too... Fun times!!!

Let me know when you plan to schedule a southern Alberta tour. </div></div>

Thanks for the invite Helmut, I will take you up on this visit........ when is the question :-)

I haven't been out west since I was about 13, so it is long overdue.

Ryan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Ok southern redneck here.... What are you eating? Great times with friends and cars are always a huge plus.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Ryan had a Portillo's - COMBO BEEF &amp; CHAR-GRILLED SAUSAGE with Sweet Peppers, a Large Fry and a Large Coke.

Dan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Helmut - you are way over due for a Chicago Trip....was that 8 years ago, when I took you to Portillo's?

Dan

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Postsedan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ryan had a Portillo's - COMBO BEEF &amp; CHAR-GRILLED SAUSAGE with Sweet Peppers</div></div>


[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Ryan Weaver's 1969 Olds Cutlass S W31 Club Coupe
 

Great friends, great cars, great food, great trip.

I have to pick a favorite at each car event I attend:-)

at the Olds collection this one stood out to me:-)

Ryan

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