Looks more like the makings of a sand buggy on a VW pan than a Camaro.

That's the part of IV they did not use for the restoration. It's controversial for sure, but at the same time look just at the floor, hardly any of the original appears to be there. I wonder though about the firewall.

The guy who owns the chassis I think I saw him once say he was thinking to restore the chassis to the Richie Zul days.

Rocker panels, firewall & door hinge pillars are structural. To me, and many others, that means IT IS THE REAL CAR despite having a few pieces of original sheet metal skin being harvested and grafted onto a ‘70 Camaro that has probably spent its Sundays at church instead of the racetrack!

I saw the car a few times over the course of a few years and if no one told me, I’d swear it was a 78ish? Camaro. It even had the taillights and the larger rear window of a later Camaro. But the owner pointed out the work done to enlarge the back window and the most convincing part were the cutouts for the rear qp marker lights from a 70 Camaro that were covered over. Definitely had original 70 Camaro quarters. Other than that, it was a tubbed out, stripped out ex-race car in primer.

BTW, the guy also had what was supposedly a black L-89 69 Camaro ex-racer there ( complete less drivetrain) and one of the 100% real zl-1’s (a roller but totally apart). I was more interested in the ZL-1, but I definitely took pics of the other two cars also. I’m in Brazil for a few months, but I’ll search for my old pics when I get back to the states.

the photo of Toy IV with no front bumper and no front side lights is when it was set up to run in a Gasser Class probably in 1969 . Bill ran it in SS/C (1968) , M/P, Gasser , Pro Stock (1970) , match racer , and other classes.

I believe the fenders with no side lights were fiberglass.

I was thinking they could be glass too, but would glass fenders have been made with the step for the outer bumper bracket ? They, also, appear too smooth for glass, but I suppose they could have been make well enough for that finish.

Never seen toy IV with what looks to be driving lights behind the grill. Interesting.

I've got one:

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php/?ph...59878698216074.

Look at the pic in the link. The top is Grumpy's real 68 Camaro. The bottom is the car claiming to be the real car. There is a very visible difference between the 2 cars. Hint,the real car has a feature that first came out on Camaros in 1968.

That is interesting. I wonder if they made the car legal for a class that had to have working headlights, but not necessarily pure stock, original ?

Link no work for me.

Yep, seems the friend of bill is watching and may have had the fake car pic removed ??

The link worked for me. The same pic comparison is a few pages back. The comments are comical on the fb thread.

The link doesn't seem to work for me, care to share the name of the FB group. Love to see the pictures etc. Thanks

See post 127 on page 13. Its basically the same pictures.

Not my photo
 

Not my photo, but hope this helps everyone that can’t see it.

Yup, this has been pointed out and discussed often,...the "68" that Grump is in, in the first picture, has the quarter jamb vent that came in the 68 Camaros, part of the whole Astro ventilation system that came standard in all 68s.

The second picture which supposedly is the restored Toy IV, (during it's restoration) shows the quarter jamb of a "67" Camaro, which had vent windows from the factory, and no vents in the quarter jambs as part of the Astro ventilation which wasn't a feature of 67s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM536MvizhI

Hey John,...check out the subject matter starting at the 32:40 mark.

Great video Frank I'm still watching it.

Yep,....watched it today. I can listen to guys like that all day long.

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I wonder how much this guy was paid off to make this documentary. Towards the end it goes off the rails.
https://youtu.be/66g-3syXTeM?si=NUyZqxAMmib2MR_d

Oh my. When I first started watching I thought it was just a re-share of an older documentary but the end the "story" came up regarding the '67 tribute car out East.

At the end of the day no major auction site is going to run that car through their system represented as the real IV.

This was just posted on F-book by Bob Veniero.

One timeline has Bob as a past owner of IV, owned it after Brooklyn Heavy and before Joe Algieri.

Jenkins > Heavy > Bob Veniero > Joe Algieri > MIA

I had this in my Toy IV file as it was said to be Toy IV

^I think the guy on the right is Bob Veniero.

.... So Dana Mecum owns the Original 1967 white 396/375 Camaro that was Grumpy Jenkins First Camaro ?
... If so, that is great , I wondered who owned that car now.
Thanks !

...:headbang:

...

Been following this thread for a while, had to bring myself back up to speed on the story of the car that is out there claiming to be the real one. I found this when someone gave me the name George Winterstein and this article below came up on a search, I apologize if this article is old news to all, I have not seen it until now (vintage 2015):
https://www.chevyhardcore.com/featur...enkins-toy-iv/

Black69, that is not IV that is another old race car that's a '67 that some folks built into a replica of IV, all the while insisting it's IV.

A number of people in this thread have posted that IV was a '68 purchased by Bill, widely known, he also told Doug Boyce for the book, the vin is known by some folks, and there are pics from that year where you can see the '68 features of IV (trim tag, sheetmetal differences, interior differences.).

The '67 in PA is a nice tribute a few folks think it's the old Trost (I think that's the name) race car.

Grumpy bought IV brand new, it was never an acid dipped '67.

If someone wanted to seriously pass off a car as IV it would be wiser for them to start off with a '68 body.

[QUOTE=Pro Stock John;1646629]Black69, that is not IV that is another old race car that's a '67 that some folks built into a replica of IV, all the while insisting it's IV.

ProStockJohn, I know its not the real car from all the evidence, all I did was refresh myself on what the copy is vs the real one. I had a person that pointed me to that article indirectly by referencing the guy they knew that made rollbars, and it was interesting to see what made them think, amoung other things, it was the real deal, before waiting for more facts to come in back then in 2015. The thought of the grumpy's toy text on that rear window sill is beyond insanity. I actually laughed at that stretch belief on that item. Its obviously some other car.

There is so much slam dunk evidence here on this thread that should put every thing to rest on that particular car not being anything but a poor copy.

So an update, a few of us networked around NC to see if any of the names provided during the search had owned, seen or were aware of IV being near or at Camp LeJeune in the 90s. We got a hold of two of them, they said had not owned it. The third person I don't think we've gotten a hold of that person but I'll check with my local buddy in NC.

More than likely we need to go back to Ron who said he was present with some guys and personally saw the car.

Jim and Jake Trost from West Chester Pa had a body shop and painted some of the Penske race cars and Jenkins cars and others.

They bought a spare 67/68 body from Penske after Penske switched to the 69 Camaros.

Jim and Jake ran this Camaro in M/P then switched to a SRD Vega.

Interesting vinyl top on a '68 car.... assuming it was added, for some reason ?

Hmmm so maybe this is why some folks think the car out in PA was built by Trosts.

I was reading on FB this morning that the owners of the Pittsburgh car are trying to copyright the name Grumpy's toy and Jenkins Competition and have intentions of hitting anyone using the names on tribute cars with a lawsuit.

Link for us with FB?

Seems frivolous and hardly enforceable, but maybe civil suits of this nature are more likely to succeed in the US compared to here in Aus???

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/f3K...ibextid=oFDknk

Its about 20 comments from the top.

I'd assume Grumpy's estate already has things like that in place and a court would handily dismiss any outside claims.

Besides, even if those guys still go on about that tribute car, the community knows better.

‘

I’m only getting a quick video clip of the clone using Bracketracer’s Link, no comments/text?
Signed in w/ F-Book and all but don’t see any way to access more, what am I missing?:dunno:
:beers:
~ Pete

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