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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...0-dsc_0119.jpg
Original paint RG with door panel and weather barrier removed. I would say it has pretty decent paint coverage, and the no doubt gray primer does take on a purplish tint https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...1-dsc_0135.jpg Same door different angle looks grey..BKH |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Is there a suggestion here that the car in question has a full coating of grey primer on its door and maybe not EO ?
Wouldn't the EO fade into the primer more predominantly ? I see what I believe is primer in non natural light along with alot of yellow then the metallic red. With the doors off I see alot of DY every where except where the hinges bolt on and none but primer on the bulkhead/cowl area. Vinyl roof cars as far as I've seen in person with the vinyl stripped off are not full body color. They seem cut in too the molding trim area and the rest primer. Fisher has welded on the trim studs before leaving there facility. I have not seen any definitive EO where its supposed to be on a factory paint job. EO is metallic lacquer finish and has a definite haze per say when you see the over spray fanning out into primer. I don't see any evidence of this in the pics posted. I'm not saying it is or isn't EO but I don't see any other evidence to support it either.. If in fact it was a factory EO spray.... it must have been one of the worst paint jobs to come off the line in the door, door jamb area..... there's not enough paint. Why all the yellow and in a fashion consistent with factory spray techniques of painting the body with doors and deck lid attached. Any pics exist of the deck lid underside on or off the car ? |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Trim studs were put on right after major body shop activities were completed at FB.
This would have been a paint pot car with lots of human touches so I would expect many non mass production details to emerge associated with paint on this specific vehicle. |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
I wonder if there are any assembly plant workers that remember the car?? Would have been unique coming down the line.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
It's my recollection that the trunk lid either wasn't OE or had been re-painted underneath.
We also didn't see "...any definitive EO where it is supposed to be..." And we actually saw the car. |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
my questions to the doubters out there are. why would I tell the person who called me out of the blue about buying the car a untruth about the color ??? if the expert had not said it was silver would the color be in question?? why does experts opinion hold more influence than the original owner who looked at the car for many months in his garage vs someone who looked at it for 2 hours ??????
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
I would expect better coverage in the area under the door panels on a normal (not hand sprayed) RG or HO car because of the color difference between the main body color and the primer.
Not so much on a special paint car where the body color was close to the primer color. Oh and I did not originally introduce the photos of the "purplish" color primer on the Hugger Orange car. Just mentioned them again because they seemed to be ignored at first and I felt they were pertinent. Think about it...and what the preponderance of the evidence showed on the car itself. It's a special paint car no doubt - so how much does that add value to the car? Hard to say. It may still be a one of one - but Flamingo Silver / Sunset Silver - instead of that other color that keeps getting brought up. Flamingo Silver / Sunset Silver shows up darker or has more of a purplish tint in some paint chip books (I have more than one book) so I can see how there may have been a misunderstanding. There is no way to go back and look at the car now to see. |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
since there were only several special paint 69 Z/28 I am sure my Z/28 was the first one the experts ever saw and did not know what they were looking at.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
I don't have a gun in this fight, but I do have a few thoughts that might be pertinent in the discussion. Several years ago, I had an original, unrestored 9800 mile 1972 GS Conv. that I sold to the current owner of the HO Z/28 recently nicknamed "The Truth". That GS was a customer factory order (not a dealer inventory order) that had 31 options including "Special Paint". The car was ordered in a "Riviera Only" color called "Dark Chestnut Poly" that was a 1972 GM color, but not normally available on A-bodies. This GS was painted partially assembled ( more in a second) and had overspray everywhere! The paint was HORRENDOUS but ORIGINAL. The front clip had more overspray than the rest of the car and not surprisingly, it was NOT a perfect color match to the rest of the car. The window sticker did list "Special Paint" as option and the color WAS listed at the bottom, but NOT in the option list area. Knowing the front clips were painted in a different area of the plant explained the mismatched color that was not a normally used hue. Is there a chance the window sticker is available for the Z/28 being discussed here? If so, it would/should help clear up the controversy.
Another observation: Many of you know I'm in the car business and I have discovered something relating to GM's paint. 2007 and 2008 Chevy Tahoes and GMC Yukons painted Dark Blue (don't know the mix code or GM's formal name for that color) have a mismatch problem between the front clip and the rest of the vehicle. I have noticed this on many of these models. Now why I think these thoughts are relevant: It is a known fact that '69 Camaros were painted in two sections of the plant (proven by the hockey stick stripe being 1/2 paint-1/2 decal, and that many cars exhibit a noticeable difference in the body alignment of the fender/door match-up). I would tend to think that the car in question here would have a high percentage of the possibility of a mismatch in color between the front clip and the rest of the body due to the Special Paint applied during assembly. Those type colors, the orchids, the silvers, the light blues, basically any light color metallics are tough to match, and unless they are painted together at the same time, usually have a difference in shades. It would be quite helpful to view and scrutinize any original photos of the sides of the car. There are good supporting theories to both sides here, and both sides are considered to be experts in this field. It is tough to argue with the original owner, but I've seen some things in this business/ hobby that are "unexplainable"! And like the old saying goes "There are usually three sides to every story; your's, mine, and somewhere in the middle is the truth". |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">since there were only several special paint 69 Z/28 I am sure my Z/28 was the first one the experts ever saw and did not know what they were looking at. </div></div>
Clem, I suspect Lillard was on the money several pages back on the thread content on this car being finished as the content is now being actively demagogued along with several straw-man arguments. IMO...this has little to do with your old car and everything about defending things that were said on other forums about your car in the past...and accordingly I explect a thread lock here to calm the board. For what is worth I believe you. |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
There are a few important pieces of paper, old photos, and a first owner, selling dealer remembering the car, and local history on a very interesting Z/28. I would bet 95% of everyone out there would kill to have this type of info on their car. The other 5% are just never content. What's the point of further discussion? Right, wrong or otherwise. Why continue....???? What is there to gain in beating this to death? Money? Don't spend yours if your not sure. There are many out there who are, and many that aren't. Why can't we enjoy a cool car ?
Surprised no one is debating the gloss on the rear tail panel and why the spoiler and tail pan don't match in shade... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img] BIG https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...3_29842_eo.jpg |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are a few important pieces of paper, old photos, and a first owner, selling dealer remembering the car, and local history on a very interesting Z/28. I would bet 95% of everyone out there would kill to have this type of info on their car. What's the point of further discussion? Right, wrong or otherwise why continue....???? What is there to gain in beating this to death? Money? Don't spend yours if your not comfortable. There are many out there who are, and many that aren't. Why can't we enjoy a cool car ?
BIG https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...3_29842_eo.jpg </div></div>because jerry reputation as a Camaro expert is at stake here . why do you think his buddy william keep posting he did not see any EO paint when they looked at the car ???? |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Well put Big Steve . This car has been drug thru the mud for no apparent reason . A classic example of a real and interesting car getting a bad rap . As far as everyones opinion on a value it comes down to what someone is willing to pay . Saw it in person this past weekend and all docs and pics of car were real and authentic . A neat car for sure ... KP
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
If I'm seeing what I think I see, the door looks to had had blend work. Could just be the age or lighting of the photo. I almost hate to say this, but that car doesn't look like Evening Orchid IN THIS PICTURE. Not saying it isn't? But doesn't look like it IN THIS PICTURE.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...3-dsc_0146.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...4-dsc_0141.jpg [img]https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...5-dsc_0143.jpg[/img This is another Grabiak - - special paint 68 Z/28 in what I believe is Omaha Orange. This one is original paint. The wheels were said to have been factory orange as well. I found no evidence to disprove that. On a side note, is there anyone that has any pictures of 1969 Camaros with purple primer? I have never seen that and I would love to see some examples...BKH |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
this picture is me running a autocross at greengate mall back in the day. those are genuine real mag wheels I used to use on my corvettes
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
OO that is a truck only color and mrs clem had a 76 454 caprice that was factory painted a truck only light metallic green color.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Not hardly Clem. July 28th was the 40th anniversary of my involvement with 1st gen Camaros. Bought a used '69 Z/28 from Jim King Chevrolet on that day in 1975. That's worthy of mention because I hung out there in the '60s as a kid growing up nearby. I saw plenty of Evening Orchid '65s back in the day. I know EO when I see it.
Special paint is uncommon [est. 1.5% of prod] and I have seen a number of them. Exactly why it is special can be difficult to ascertain. It can indicate stripe delete [fairly common], non-normative stripe color [know of one] or non-RPO paint color. The car in question is really rare in that it was both stripe delete and a non-RPO color. I do not at all question the car was ordered EO. Having examined the car for about two hours back in 2010 I have reason to question that's what you got. I know EO when I see it. Didn't see it. It's not personal. You have accomplished much in your life and are well respected in the hobby. |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Surprised no one is debating the gloss on the rear tail panel and why the spoiler and tail pan don't match in shade... rolleyes. that area was painted black using a textured vinyl top paint. the grill was also painted flat black. there is another picture out there at the auto cross that you can see the flat black grill
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this picture is me running a autocross at greengate mall back in the day. those are genuine real mag wheels I used to use on my corvettes </div></div>
Does the color of the car in that picture look EO to you? Be honest. Could part of the "disappointment" with the color be because it was not as dark as expected? Are there any original docs from this car from 1968 that show the name of the color ordered? |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcmiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this picture is me running a autocross at greengate mall back in the day. those are genuine real mag wheels I used to use on my corvettes </div></div>
Does the color of the car in that picture look EO to you? Be honest. Could part of the "disappointment" with the color be because it was not as dark as expected? Are there any original docs from this car from 1968 that show the name of the color ordered? </div></div>sure does not look like cortez silver the 69 camaro color. http://www.69pace.com/paint1969cortezsilver.htm |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
That's a Kool Picture.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surprised no one is debating the gloss on the rear tail panel and why the spoiler and tail pan don't match in shade... rolleyes. that area was painted black using a textured vinyl top paint. the grill was also painted flat black. there is another picture out there at the auto cross that you can see the flat black grill </div></div>
Pretty cool stuff.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] BIG |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Posted by Clem.. "because jerry reputation as a Camaro expert is at stake here . why do you think his buddy william keep posting he did not see any EO paint when they looked at the car ????"
Clem. Jerry is not allowed on this site for other reasons. His reputation is not at stake here. I believe William is defending his position because that is what he believes he saw. My personal opinion is the car was some other color than Silver and that William missed noticing it. Joe Blow off the street would look at the pic with the mags on it and say "Silver". Not unless the Orchid color is brought up do you notice the off color. Everyone.....If we want this thread to continue it needs to stay civil. |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clem</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcmiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this picture is me running a autocross at greengate mall back in the day. those are genuine real mag wheels I used to use on my corvettes </div></div>
Does the color of the car in that picture look EO to you? Be honest. Could part of the "disappointment" with the color be because it was not as dark as expected? Are there any original docs from this car from 1968 that show the name of the color ordered? </div></div>sure does not look like cortez silver the 69 camaro color. http://www.69pace.com/paint1969cortezsilver.htm </div></div> You didn't answer the questions... |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Brian, is there any evidence that the '68 Z/28 you introduced was painted, even partially so AFTER some assembly? And was that particular color one that was included in the pallet of GM colors for any model, truck or car in 1968? I ask this because of the Buick I owned that did show signs of painting OTHER than the normal process.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Omaha Orange was available multiple years and I believe normally only for truck or commercial use. Could be ordered as special paint if available that model year.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
----I kinda hate to post in this thread because it is getting a bit rowdy, but if we reference that original picture again, its now 46 years old. Don't you think there might be a chance that its faded or that the technology of polaroid cameras back then isn't remotely as good as what a cell phone takes today? The pic even looks faded to me. Just saying I wouldn't base anything on that picture. If the color isn't exactly EO, then it was slightly mis-mixed at the factory. Clems and the dealerships reputation are not in question here in any way.......Bill S
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Posted by Clem.. "because jerry reputation as a Camaro expert is at stake here . why do you think his buddy william keep posting he did not see any EO paint when they looked at the car ????"
Clem. Jerry is not allowed on this site for other reasons. His reputation is not at stake here. I believe William is defending his position because that is what he believes he saw. My personal opinion is the car was some other color than Silver and that William missed noticing it. Joe Blow off the street would look at the pic with the mags on it and say "Silver". Not unless the Orchid color is brought up do you notice the off color. Everyone.....If we want this thread to continue it needs to stay civil. </div></div>my reputation is at stake because of jerry's and William's opinion and my reputation is important to me even if I am not a a self appointed expert on Z/28s |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcmiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would expect better coverage in the area under the door panels on a normal (not hand sprayed) RG or HO car because of the color difference between the main body color and the primer.
Not so much on a special paint car where the body color was close to the primer color. Oh and I did not originally introduce the photos of the "purplish" color primer on the Hugger Orange car. Just mentioned them again because they seemed to be ignored at first and I felt they were pertinent. Think about it...and what the preponderance of the evidence showed on the car itself. It's a special paint car no doubt - so how much does that add value to the car? Hard to say. It may still be a one of one - but Flamingo Silver / Sunset Silver - instead of that other color that keeps getting brought up. Flamingo Silver / Sunset Silver shows up darker or has more of a purplish tint in some paint chip books (I have more than one book) so I can see how there may have been a misunderstanding. There is no way to go back and look at the car now to see. </div></div> Bryon, I find it odd that you chose to lock the thread on the CRG site but find the need to continue to post about it here. To me the background on why Clem ordered the car E O is interesting but that where it ends. Color is all about personal taste, and for me this car holds no additional value. Someone else may feel different but again it's all about preference in color. If you continue to post on this thread I think it only appropriate to unlock the CRG thread. I believe there is enough day one information from the original owner, dealer and those familiar with the car to validate the color it was originally ordered. |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
all jerry had to do was run the VIN and the would have found my post from years before as the original owner.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
I've shut up since posting the VIN back on Page-1 so maybe a good time to check back in? First off, welcome aboard Clem! Sorry for what may seem like foolishness here but it's a serious group that sometimes perseveres when others don't but also reaches solid conclusions others won't...thankfully we have this forum! Reading all presented and resto of the car aside, being ordered EO but painted/delivered w/ the #81 Sunset color seems most plausible also helps all original pieces of the puzzle fit together? I have 3 things I'm hoping Clem can comment on; 1 - Have you seen the car since restoration in EO and does the color seem the exact same or any lighter/darker? 2 - Is the Sales document posted THE absolute original...there was some questioning of it earlier so an O/O comment best when possible. 3 - When we get past this quagmire, I don't expect I'm the only one looking forward to hearing more about your other cars! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] ~ Pete |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcmiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clem</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcmiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this picture is me running a autocross at greengate mall back in the day. those are genuine real mag wheels I used to use on my corvettes </div></div>
Does the color of the car in that picture look EO to you? Be honest. Could part of the "disappointment" with the color be because it was not as dark as expected? Are there any original docs from this car from 1968 that show the name of the color ordered? </div></div>sure does not look like cortez silver the 69 camaro color. http://www.69pace.com/paint1969cortezsilver.htm </div></div> You didn't answer the questions... </div></div>the answer is NO |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
----Believe me Clem, I know exactly what you mean. Something similar happened to me several years ago. Maybe I should have entered "to me" at the end of that sentence......Bill S
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PeteLeathersac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've shut up since posting the VIN back on Page-1 so maybe a good time to check back in? First off, welcome aboard Clem! Sorry for what may seem like foolishness here but it's a serious group that sometimes perseveres when others don't but also reaches solid conclusions others won't...thankfully we have this forum! Reading all presented and resto of the car aside, being ordered EO but painted/delivered w/ the #81 Sunset color seems most plausible also helps all original pieces of the puzzle fit together? I have 3 things I'm hoping Clem can comment on; 1 - Have you seen the car since restoration in EO and does the color seem the exact same or any lighter/darker? 2 - Is the Sales document posted THE absolute original...there was some questioning of it earlier so an O/O comment best when possible. 3 - When we get past this quagmire, I don't expect I'm the only one looking forward to hearing more about your other cars! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]#1 yes I was at mecum harrisburg sat. and that is what the car looked like when I owned it. #2 yes it is the original that mrs clem saved. #3 OK ~ Pete </div></div> |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
I just looked at that picture again, and it is cool. However, to my eyes, it does look like it has been blended from the middle of the door into the front leading edge of the rear 1/4. It doesn't appear as Cortez Silver OR Evening Orchid in this picture. I'm thinking back to what I said about the front clip not matching.... Could it have been blended as an attempt to make it match the rest of the car? Could it be that the "Special Paint" was applied in a manner that didn't cover as much as a normally painted car? Could it be that when William and Jerry looked at the car, the early repaint hid the "Special Paint" and what they saw might have been a primer that is known to cast a "silverish appearance? What if the line tried the "Silver Firemist" ( or whatever it was called) in an attempt to "appear" as the requested Evening Orchid? What if all of, or a combination of all of these possible scenarios occurred? I try to look at things rationally and in this case that is almost impossible due to the time that has passed since the car was originally painted, and then repainted and then appraised/ documented. I can't see why Clem and the dealer's representative would fabricate such a story (don't believe it WAS A FABRICATION), but with all the factors involved I really can't say if anyone is 100% right or wrong, or if any one person is maliciously telling an untruth to uphold a reputation. BIG is right that most of us would kill for the paperwork that has surfaced, but NONE of us would want the possible degrading of our car that could be associated with this car. I'm certainly not a buyer for this car, even if it wore the original paint, I don't think it is a $200,000.00 car. It is truly a shame it was ever repainted. Where is that window sticker?
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paceme</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcmiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would expect better coverage in the area under the door panels on a normal (not hand sprayed) RG or HO car because of the color difference between the main body color and the primer.
Not so much on a special paint car where the body color was close to the primer color. Oh and I did not originally introduce the photos of the "purplish" color primer on the Hugger Orange car. Just mentioned them again because they seemed to be ignored at first and I felt they were pertinent. Think about it...and what the preponderance of the evidence showed on the car itself. It's a special paint car no doubt - so how much does that add value to the car? Hard to say. It may still be a one of one - but Flamingo Silver / Sunset Silver - instead of that other color that keeps getting brought up. Flamingo Silver / Sunset Silver shows up darker or has more of a purplish tint in some paint chip books (I have more than one book) so I can see how there may have been a misunderstanding. There is no way to go back and look at the car now to see. </div></div> Bryon, I find it odd that you chose to lock the thread on the CRG site but find the need to continue to post about it here. To me the background on why Clem ordered the car E O is interesting but that where it ends. Color is all about personal taste, and for me this car holds no additional value. Someone else may feel different but again it's all about preference in color. If you continue to post on this thread I think it only appropriate to unlock the CRG thread. I believe there is enough day one information from the original owner, dealer and those familiar with the car to validate the color it was originally ordered. </div></div> There is not enough paper documentation for me to say what the color truly was. The thread there was locked because I felt there was some "bashing" going on and headed in a direction that was not productive. A prior thread had some "bashing" in it too and that was locked, not by me. I guess my tolerance level for that is low. I also felt that the original post was more of an "advertisement" for the car coming up for auction. The thread may open up again at some point, but that is not my call. I have been very civil but can't say that for all of the posts in this thread. An alternate solution between Evening Orchid and Cortez Silver was suggested - which is what I believe the color was. I have an open mind, but it is an opinion. Everyone can have an opinion. It's no big deal to me. This will be my last post in this thread. But I am not just Joe Blow off the street. I don't have a dog in this fight, but "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit". lol |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: olredalert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">----Believe me Clem, I know exactly what you mean. Something similar happened to me several years ago. Maybe I should have entered "to me" at the end of that sentence......Bill S </div></div>I have a friend who went thru this with his 69 ZL-1 corvette when it did not meet what the NCRS said. it is a case of facts vs opinions. I knew what the corvette was as I worked on it when it was brand new.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Do you really believe he was innocent?
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DW31S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you really believe he was innocent? </div></div>like I posted I had the ZL-1n my garage and these doubters only knew what they read in books and never saw the car when new. I know one guy who was there when it rolled off of the truck. same thing here the dealer and paperwork don't mean more than some ones opinion who never saw the car. .
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