Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

And you will waste more hours next year. And the next year and the next year....

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
And you will waste more hours next year. And the next year and the next year....

[/ QUOTE ]

You bet https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif It's like being hooked on watching "Judge Judy".....I can't stop....great entertainment https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif
Except I Tevo so I can blow off the comercials https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Mike

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

I'm just a nube to all this, I thought (at lease in the Peoples Republic of Illinois) that when a vin was changed on a car for repair etc. that it had to be witnessed and certified by a officer of the Secretary of States office. I'm not sure but then it would seem that there would be certification papers which would have to move with the title of the car?????

I feel real bad for the guy that bought the green ZL-1. He looked absolutely thrilled. Now I have to assume that he is really upset at this point, I cant see that the news has not gotten to him by now.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ever notice that EVERY year for a week after the B-J auction ends there are countless threads noting many examples of deception, fraud, and outright lies? Yet people still have the guts to say that B-J "sets the tone" for prices for the upcoming year...In my opinion B-J is nothing more than a big joke, a car show at best, and less "real" than pro-wrestling....has been for years. I'd also bet most of the "well bought" cars weren't actually bought at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Joe, I agree. BJ is a car show. Nothing more, nothing less. To me, it sets no market value.

Barrett Jackson is a wonderful for people who have very deep pockets for purchasing cars. It is the best car show in the world. Period, end of story. Even if you do not buy a single car, just being there to watch the action, collect some free-goodies and watch the auction is enough for you to understand the how the system works. Steve Davis, for example, must have said the following 1,000 times this past week. "Blue chip car, Investment car, collector starter car." After a while it became down right embarrassing to listen to. The ZL1 auction was a JOKE! Reggie and Holub were bidding the car up to 300k while whispering behind the podium/microphone. The winning bidder of the car was like a marionette bidding on that car.

Schonye- to answer your question from the perspective of someone who was on stage for the Yenko/ZL1 auctions, I do not know the legality of the auction, but IMO, the only pictures that I would be interested in seeing are pictures of the rebody-hidden vin swaps, tags etc. Barrett Jackson is not a forum for selling cars with hi-pedigree. That with why Mecum, Gooding, and Russo-Steel exist. While there were many no-question #1 condition cars with paper to back it up, we saw more restamps, clones, fake tagged muscle cars in one weekend than I want to admit. But I also think the buyers this year were smarter with money than ever before.

At Barrett Jackson there is no test driving, no formal inspection, barely even an opportunity to check numbers, pads, engine codes/castings or cowl tags. BJ will always remain the place to sell a questionable car why? Because sellers can! I had a great laugh when a fellow on stage with a '70 440 Cuda was on his cell phone, checking the welds in the 1/4, while he was bidding. Talk about inspection on the fly.

While we can beat up Craig Jackson and Steve Davis for being gut-wrenching, money hungry business men, the charity work they do is really top notch. And while I hate to admit how many times I turned around to comment on how utterly pathetic the two sounded when they complimented a phony or fake car with the coined "blue chip investment" or "collection starter quality" who else can raise over $1,000,000 in one night (in this economy) for charity?

I'll let someone else talk now.

-Dan

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
Schoneye The federal statue on VIN's applies to a stolen vehicle. If you are the "owner of said vehicle, or agent thereof" the exemption for removing/replacing is clearly stated. The law yields if you are "repairing" your own vehicle. So when a body shop is putting a front clip , cowl or body shell on a damaged vehicle it is a repair , not a criminal act. The law needs to be amended to state that if fraud is involved it is a criminal act, stolen car or not. Defining the exact nature of where fraud exists, however, is a real challenge . Sure, we all know it when we see it, but putting it in a legal code is the hurdle. Write your elected officials. Last I looked, however, they won't even jail a guy that stole 50 Billion from investors.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand, but think too, as Carl stated about Il. a DOT officer is required in Ia. also to witness a VIN changeout, and document it. I'm not sure it may not require a new VIN nbr. I'll see if I can dig up officer Dan my DOT guy and get his opinion.
We're on the same page with Bernie. Bernie should meet Bubba. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOST my reply, while copying below pics........ARGH!!!!!!!!!

Interested to read why this community refers to a created, mfg, cloned #27 ZL-1 69 Camaro as a rebodied Camaro.

#27 that everyone saw on T.V. Saturday night has only ONE born with assy line part, the VIN TAG.



[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Chuck...With all due respect and please correct me if I am wrong on the facts...I am going from memory and my alzheimers kicks in at times..hehehe, but I thought the story in prior threads was that you took the car to get mini-tubbed and they cut the full floors out, so you found another body and switched the VIN and the drivetrain and went racing with the car...and that point, I believe the car was considered "rebodied"....I realize at some point the drivetrain was separated from the body and the car parted out...but I would still consider the car rebodied. I dont see much difference if it has the original drivetrain or not...

..if the original body is found, I dont know what they could do with it without a VIN....?? maybe sell it to the owner of the car!! hehe

Do I have the story right?? more or less?? hehe... just my opinion... Max

...and as far as the auction companies...I dont know if one is any better than another...I remember last year this same car running through one of the other big auctions and bidding to 315,000 but not hitting the reserve.Is there an auction company that will not accept this car? I dont know if the buyer got such a bad deal as he may be able to sell the car for more money some day.
I realize that there are many purists in the hobby, but apparently, the law is set-up so a car can be repaired and "rebodied" if there was no fraud intended...I dont believe Chuck was committing fraud back when he did this. And as long as the seller makes a reasonable effort to disclose this, I dont think they are liable either...The whole Feggie bidding on teh car seems shady, but I guess he had every right to bid and win the car as anyone.......I'm not sure what was said in person by Barrett Jackson before this car sold at the auction as far as disclosure...apparently Reggie spoke about the car...but it was not shown on TV...anyone that was there??? Did BJ disclose the rebody of the ZL-1 prior to the auction??
I'm no lawyer, but I dont think it would be easy to prove any wrongdoing in court over all this...I think you would have a tough time saying you got ripped off just because the car bid to 315,000 last year at another auction.

jmhu...

Thanks, Max

BTW, Chuck...those pics are bad asssss https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
8 minutes 25 seconds from first yell to hammer. I seriously got sick to my stomach watching that auction. Craig Jackson is a bad guy in my opinion. This whole thing has seriously jumped the shark. What about the other poor saps that were also not getting what they wanted and got their cars hammered in less then 1 minute?

[/ QUOTE ] Exactly right, plus did you hear Craig Jackson when it was at 225K and Spanky was going to hammer it he whispered " don't do it" then winked to someone behind him. Really a sad display. One other thing if Reggie was really intending to buy the car where was his bidders id? Everyone else had one, I guess if your famous the rules do not appy. That being said I will surely tune in to see every minute of nexts years auction https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

BJ Az. has always been surreal theater.Nothing more,nothing less.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6.../popcorn-1.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

It's nice to finally see the whole rebody thing come out and into the light. Compare this auction to 5 years ago when everything sold was perfect, original and never questioned. It was the unspeakable. Ya right!

With respect to the green ZL1, it was funny to see Ron Pratt and Rick Hendrick sit on their hands while the car was on stage. They both had this look on their face as if to say "I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole".

Charley - what was the deal with the black COPO? A few guys have inquired.

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

I watched the video twice...when did they announce it was a re-body? As a matter of fact...C Jackson said 'this is a real car'..but they knew..it was a re body..hence NOT a real car...

Did I miss something?

I've been to Barrett Jackson twice...it is a meeting place of shysters and automotive idiots...idiots who want to be famous at the expense of paying a HUGE premium.

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's nice to finally see the whole rebody thing come out and into the light. Compare this auction to 5 years ago when everything sold was perfect, original and never questioned. It was the unspeakable. Ya right!

With respect to the green ZL1, it was funny to see Ron Pratt and Rick Hendrick sit on their hands while the car was on stage. They both had this look on their face as if to say "I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole".

Charley - what was the deal with the black COPO? A few guys have inquired.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hylton,

If you followed numerous threads here over last few years that were BJ was the topic - overall I think BJ has gotten a fair shake including LOTS of critical commentary where deserved, and some defenders who cleared the record for BJ.

I had enough of the BJ auction scene by 2003 which was the last year I attended.

This year one of the hi points for me was the 2010 Camaro sale to the noted NASCAR Chevrolet sponsored team owner Rick Hendrick who of course is on the big time payroll as a race team owner for client Chevrolet/GM.

Hendrick conviently pays over 300 Large for the first 2010 Camaro with the announcers saying time and time again that "some lucky enthusist was going to get the chance" Perhaps Hendrick is a Camaro Enthusist, however if he is or not the whole thing looks very conflicted out to me.

BJ great to watch on TV but I put it in the same league as pro wrestling just car style, it is entertainment and most of the country has little else to do in the dead of winter so they watch.

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

Chuck did not remove the trim tag or vin# from the car. Somebody else did that. The car now has the correct vin on the body. There lies the rub!!!

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's nice to finally see the whole rebody thing come out and into the light. Compare this auction to 5 years ago when everything sold was perfect, original and never questioned. It was the unspeakable. Ya right!

With respect to the green ZL1, it was funny to see Ron Pratt and Rick Hendrick sit on their hands while the car was on stage. They both had this look on their face as if to say "I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole".

Charley - what was the deal with the black COPO? A few guys have inquired.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hylton,

If you followed numerous threads here over last few years that were BJ was the topic - overall I think BJ has gotten a fair shake including LOTS of critical commentary where deserved, and some defenders who cleared the record for BJ.

I had enough of the BJ auction scene by 2003 which was the last year I attended.

This year one of the hi points for me was the 2010 Camaro sale to the noted NASCAR Chevrolet sponsored team owner Rick Hendrick who of course is on the big time payroll as a race team owner for client Chevrolet/GM.

Hendrick conviently pays over 300 Large for the first 2010 Camaro with the announcers saying time and time again that "some lucky enthusist was going to get the chance" Perhaps Hendrick is a Camaro Enthusist, however if he is or not the whole thing looks very conflicted out to me.

BJ great to watch on TV but I put it in the same league as pro wrestling just car style, it is entertainment and most of the country has little else to do in the dead of winter so they watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you. This site has always been on the ball. Membership has it's privileges. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif My point was that the general public seems to be starting to understand the rebody thing and that at least BJ has begun to announce when cars are rebodies.

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
I watched the video twice...when did they announce it was a re-body? As a matter of fact...C Jackson said 'this is a real car'..but they knew..it was a re body..hence NOT a real car...

Did I miss something?

I've been to Barrett Jackson twice...it is a meeting place of shysters and automotive idiots...idiots who want to be famous at the expense of paying a HUGE premium.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim,

Apparently the statement was made by the auctioneers when the cars came up for sale. It was conveniently edited out of the broadcast.

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

Who bought the Yellow Yenko camaro? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

The sign in front of the ZL-1 stated it was a re-body. Did not help that style trim was added.

The black COPO should have done way better. Nice car only minor issues.

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

Although Craig Jackson's "WINK" is not clear in the U-Tube segment it was very clear on my DVR recording when I showed it on my big screen LCD. The guy he winked at was Gary Holub standing right behind him.
There was also disclaimers through out the auction shown on the big screen TV's right next to the stage that said something to the effect of "IT SHOULD BE ASSUMED THAT ALL CARS ARE NOT MATCHING NUMBERS AND MILEAGE IS NOT ACTUAL" or something to that affect.
The net net of the whole fiasco is that BJ is in business to make money and is very succesful at it. They are car salesmen and nothing more. They don't care about true quality cars, they just want to sell them. As long as people buy from them it will continue. We can all wring our hands and bitch about it, but it isn't going to change. So take it for what it is "entertainment" and keep supporting the legitimate venues for buying and selling the cars we love.
I do, however have to give credit to BJ for their charity efforts. That does mean a lot.

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

As usual, Don nailed it...

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
The black COPO should have done way better. Nice car only minor issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's scary! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/shocked.gif Imagine the sellers reaction - taking home less than 90K?

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I watched the video twice...when did they announce it was a re-body? As a matter of fact...C Jackson said 'this is a real car'..but they knew..it was a re body..hence NOT a real car...

Did I miss something?

I've been to Barrett Jackson twice...it is a meeting place of shysters and automotive idiots...idiots who want to be famous at the expense of paying a HUGE premium.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim,

Apparently the statement was made by the auctioneers when the cars came up for sale. It was conveniently edited out of the broadcast.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still confused..

poster said he it got footage from his DVR..

The broadcast was 'live' wasn't it?

You can't edit something that is 'live ' can you?

I don't mean to be obtuse...

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I watched the video twice...when did they announce it was a re-body? As a matter of fact...C Jackson said 'this is a real car'..but they knew..it was a re body..hence NOT a real car...

Did I miss something?

I've been to Barrett Jackson twice...it is a meeting place of shysters and automotive idiots...idiots who want to be famous at the expense of paying a HUGE premium.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim,

Apparently the statement was made by the auctioneers when the cars came up for sale. It was conveniently edited out of the broadcast.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still confused..

poster said he it got footage from his DVR..

The broadcast was 'live' wasn't it?

You can't edit something that is 'live ' can you?

I don't mean to be obtuse...

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't edit something live but you can decide when the broadcast joins the auction. You see the car already on the block when the broadcast starts so viewers at home have no idea what has been said prior to start of auction.

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

I agree with Don also. I've said for years B-J is just an entertaining car show. I talked with another member here last week and we both agree; at the present time if you're looking for an auction that more accurately reflects the 'real life' pricing on "Quality" collector cars, look to Mecum.

Let's hope they can hold on to their integrity.

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did not help that style trim was added.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wasnt the D80 spoiler option added as well?

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

B-J was very entertaining for me. i love looking for people that i know better than looking at the cars going across the block. that and doing the fantasy bidding with the boys was just as fun. !!!! so i will watch again next year(if i dont go) and as far as the ZL-1 https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

I was waiting for the old organ grinder to appear when the ZL-1 was sold. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
Chuck did not remove the trim tag or vin# from the car. Somebody else did that. The car now has the correct vin on the body. There lies the rub!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Chuck,

If that's the case, I apologize...I thought I remembered Chuck explaining that "he was just a 23 year old kid wanting to go racing"..or someyhing to that effect..if I have it wrong, thanks for letting me know Kim. Im probably confused. As usual!! hehe
Maybe I should have just ASKED you Chuck what happened again..or better maybe someone can find the original thread?? Ive searched but I can never find anything when searching for an old thread..???? Anyone?

Once again..sorry

Max

BTW...does anyone have a pic of the cowl tag to the car??

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

My understanding was that Jim Bruns, a local racer, removed the tag and sold it for $25k and he is still racing the body. Might be wrong, a lot of hearsay. Chuck probably knows better. Jim

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

as the lugnut turns....

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

The money they raise for charity is great, but even those auctions get sickening after a while. All the pauses to say "Come on! It's for the kids!" and constantly reminding everyone that there are no auction fees.

Not to take away from the generousity of those that bid, but I prefer someone that gives to their favorite charity without having to do it under the lights of national televison.

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
Chuck did not remove the trim tag or vin# from the car. Somebody else did that. The car now has the correct vin on the body. There lies the rub!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Chuck,

If that's the case, I apologize...I thought I remembered Chuck explaining that "he was just a 23 year old kid wanting to go racing"..or someyhing to that effect..if I have it wrong, thanks for letting me know Kim. Im probably confused. As usual!! hehe
Maybe I should have just ASKED you Chuck what happened again..or better maybe someone can find the original thread?? Ive searched but I can never find anything when searching for an old thread..???? Anyone?



[/ QUOTE ]

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/show...fpart/all/vc/1

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

OOPs!! I was wrong!! Sorry Folks. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif Maybe too many https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

What Chuck posted on Camaros.net

"Over 30 years ago I parted out the ORIGINAL/REAL # 27 ZL-1 due to Thayne Porliers chassis shop in Tacoma, WA removing the factory floor pan. I removed the VIN tag and installed it on a junk yard 69 Body, and used the ZL-1 title to have WASH state ownership on the new 69 Canmaro, racecar I built. (Go ahead put me in jail, sue me, what ever on what I did 30 years ago...........that is NOT what this ZL-1 issue is about.)

Around 1982 I sold the multi colored C/SM 69 racecar to Allan Martin Chevrolet in Bremerton,WA. It then passed to subsequent owners including current owner Jim Bruns.
Somehow Bruns communicated with a man in the midwest, who wanted to buy his "ZL-1" VIN tagged car and title. Bruns didnt want to sell the car, but alledgedly sold the VIN tag and title. Not sure who actually recreated/cloned the current #27 ZL-1, but apparently the born with VIN TAG found its way onto the dash location.

Back to the original (butchered floor) 69 ZL-1 body with original TRIM TAG. I sold/gave (cant remember 30 years ago) Body to man by the name of John Carmondy (spelling) in North Seattle area. IMHO this body with hidden vin and trim tag was never used to recreate the current #27. The current # 27 has been inspected behind heater plenum and doesnt have the #27 ZL-1 VIN............There is no proof or evidence of what happened to original body!!!!!!!!!!!!

BOTTOM LINE is current #27 that is being called a rebodied car, DOES NOT have one born with part OTHER than VIN TAG...............
Every part on the recreated #27 was either imported from another 69 Camaro or possibly N.O.S. parts........

I can not prove above statements...........these are my conclusions based on what I did and/or believe to be the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

I do not want to change the subject , but obviously ILUV69S does not have anyone in his or her family with Alzheimers. Trust me it is not a JOKE

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

good point.
i'm sure one of the mods can delete that part out the post.

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do not want to change the subject , but obviously ILUV69S does not have anyone in his or her family with Alzheimers. Trust me it is not a JOKE

[/ QUOTE ]


You are correct and its been removed. Mahalo for pointing it out

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

My newest comments are in post 87 at this thread...........


http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...=1#post1142310

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

I was at the auction. Craig Jackson did not come out and say the ZL1 was a rebody. Rather, he explained that the car had been tubbed and was rebuilt/restored using "parts from other cars" and went on to say that this sort of thing happens to many cars.

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was at the auction. Craig Jackson did not come out and say the ZL1 was a rebody. Rather, he explained that the car had been tubbed and was rebuilt/restored using "parts from other cars" and went on to say that this sort of thing happens to many cars.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hum....

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

NW YENKO, Interested to know your source on that $25K selling price. Hard to believe that much, but I have no info on any price that Jim B received from mid west CLONERS............

FYI, I sold complete running C/SM drag car for $8500!!!!!!
to Allan Martin Chevrolet

Re: Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro
 

So it is a re-body of a re-body????...wwwoooowww....

..and sorry for the not so politically correct saying...If I hurt any feelings, it sure was not my intention...