Re: Would this car be considerd a COPO
 

I think that the COPO world gets a little disturbed when they see sleazy dealers, and others, hanging the COPO name on anything and everything just to make a fast buck. GM had several ways of getting cars through the system in the old days and COPO was just one of them. If we work together instead of getting all strung out, perhaps all of these methods will become clear. It's not that many years ago that people thought that I was pulling their legs when talking about our factory 427 Chevelle. It was a little frustrating but they eventually learned a little. Same with the pace cars and others such as Ray Morrison's COPO Chevy II. I bet these guys also had their share of disbelievers. Our GM of Candada microfilm printout shows the 9566AA but doesn't call it COPO as such. Unless you knew the significance of the number, it looked just like another L78 car when looking at all the option codes listed. There is still lots for us to learn.

Re: Would this car be considerd a COPO
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible to see a picture of the cowl tag for the car in question? Neat, historical car regardless of whether it was ordered via the COPO system or not.
-Jon

[/ QUOTE ]

Show me yours, I'll show you mine.
Nice try Zedder. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Would this car be considerd a COPO
 

Man, you really are a rocket scientist aren't you?

1967Z28 isn't me...it's Jon Mello, you know, one of the CRG guys that you told me I should contact to learn a little bit about '67 Camaros??? I haven't spoken to Jon in months and can assure you, he could certainly teach you a few things.

For what it's worth guys, Pacecarjeff contacted me via email and got a little nasty when I wouldn't buy into his "my car is a factory 427 car just like the Yenkos" story. Don't waste your breath trying to reason with him.

Also, to clear up some misinformation he provided in this thread, the 80055 GM Oshawa account was a Sales Promotion Account, not a "Show car" account. Over the years, this term has been used incorrectly by some at GM Vintage Services - especially in the early days when much of this information was just being figured out.

Pacecarjeff...please do not continue to contact me with your little games, I don't care about your "special car" or your "trim tag collection" https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Would this car be considerd a COPO
 

Vintage Vehicle Services was sort of an evolutionary thing. Many years ago GM had a reference office (my descriptive name). You might have an engine out of heaven knows what. You gave them the casting number and/or stamped VIN numbers. They could look up what the engine application was. Then you knew where to start if you needed parts. Larry Davidson did a search on an engine in a '65 Chev SS for us. Turned out to be a late '50s 283 engine. This service was meant primarily for garages and dealerships I would assume. With all the information that was available, guys like us eventually started making requests regarding our cars and it was all free. We got the GM info on our COPO car in about 1988. At that time they didn't have information on the ZP8, ZV6, ZN1 and other Z series codes. Guys like Peter Simpson and others have since seen patterns and figured out what the codes meant. Even the GM guys didn't have all the information but did their best. Helping us was more of a service by guys, like Larry who were interested in cars, than part of their job. Without their interest, the service might not even be available to us today.

Re: Would this car be considerd a COPO
 

It's a great service...no doubt...I just got my copy from George on a 63 Belair factory 409/425 car.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Would this car be considerd a COPO
 

Yes, you are right Jon Mello has contacted me directly.
I have sent him a picture of my tag, I am sure he knows who to send it to, he seems like a very reasonable guy.

Seems this guy Mark has had a falling out with just about everyone.
I am surprised he is still allowed to post after he was banned from the site the last time.

I know you don't care Mark, you have already stated that in your PM's to me many times. If you don't care about the research I am trying to do here, then please just don't click on this thread.

As far as the Show car account.
My paperwork is DIRECTLY from General Motors of Canada limited - not some service that is no longer around.
This now cost's around $40, (but when I did it it was only $25 or so) It came from a gentleman named George Zapora.

The only games it seems are you attacking me.
Zedder had asked for pictures and copies of all my documentation. (which he claimed that he already had)
Additionally, He wanted pictures of my trim tag to add to his photo collection.
I told him that I would not add to his photos.

I also informed him that I have been collecting parts and trim tags for many years, and sent him a picture of a few hundred Tags laying on my kitchen table. I also told him of 1 special tag I had from a crashed 1967 Z/28. Thought that would interest him, just made him mad.

I would really like to get away from the bickering.
I am willing to drop the whole thing any ways.

I would be willing to share all my data with anyone who wants it in a non-selfish way.

I just don't really care anymore either.
Besides my electricity just came back on after 6 days.
We have been living on a generator since Hurricane Wilma.

Bye. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: Would this car be considerd a COPO
 

I still would like to know what makes you think the factory installed 427's in Camaro's for Yenko in 67. All I have ever seen is that Yenko did transplants. If indeed all the 67's have a dash on the tag just like your car I would think you can be assured it did not come with a 427. Does anyone have a pic of a 67 tag to post ?

Re: Would this car be considerd a COPO
 

I just can't stand liars...here is the email exchange between this guy and me...and by the way, I don't have a trim tag photo collection and do have the GM shippers on all of the Canadian IPC's, so why would I want yours? I offered to compare your tag to the blue car's tag pic that I have that is in non-digital format to help you out. Some thanks I get...frankly, I wish I had never even commented in this thread in the first place, but I honestly didn't think you had an agenda when you posted...

From Jeff...

"I saw you said you had all the paperwork on the Canadian cars.

Can you tell me if all the BB canadian cars had the F41 package, or just
mine.
Can I see the paperwork from those cars - is mine different? #N236970
My car seems to be weird for some reason, and may have very well come
with a 427 installed after all.

Looks like mine was special ordered and we don't know why.
It may have gone through the same clandestine process as the 67 Yenko cars.
My trim tag has some other different stuff,
my rear end is hardened heat treated,
and has a lot of off-road front suspension parts.

Mark,
Not looking to start a fight - just want to document this potentially
significant car.

Jeff Ashen

I own a 68 Z/28 also - so I can't be all bad. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif"

Re: Would this car be considerd a COPO
 

My reply...

"Jeff,

I don't know who is feeding you this info or whether you are just wishful
thinking, but you really need to read some of the books and articles written
on '67 Pace Cars. ALL of the Canadian cars were IDENTICAL (big blocks and
small blocks). They were ordered through 80055 which is the GM Oshawa sales
promotion account, not the "show car" account as some GM vintage services
people in the past have mistakenly identified it to be. I've owned numerous
'67 Camaros that were ordered through 80055. All BB IPC's have F41 and all
have identical options. Your car was the second BB car of the 11 and is no
different from the rest.

Some have fleet codes, some do not - that is nothing unusual. In fact, I
have pics of a number of real trim tags that are missing option info that
can be documented via other means. All '67 Z's were 4 speeds, but I have
seen a number of them who have trim tags that do not show the 4 speed
transmission. Frankly, I wouldn't put too much effort in trying to
determine if you car was special...others have researched this topic to
death. Send me a pic of your trim tag and I'll tell you how it differs from
the others that I have pics of.

Mark"

Re: Would this car be considerd a COPO
 

His response...

"Seems your very closed minded about this whole thing, so I won't bother
you again.

You would shake in your boots if you knew who was feeding me this stuff.
At this point I have promised to keep their identities confidential.
Very High Profile!!!

There are a few other things that some of your buddies have PM'd about
which also points to VERY special order.
Additionally, the Paperwork that I got from GM,. way before you were
investigating this stuff.
Clearly reads: GM of Canada Show Car Account.
It is not from a vintage service company, but from GM themselves.

Also, I have seen the trim tag from the Blue car -
A member from our group had pictures of it, and knows where the car is.
It is not for sale.
It has a fleet code. does not have to other markings as mine, so the
cars we not Identical at all.
well maybe 20 of them were - mine is different for sure.

Maybe you have read Donna C.'s book, good for you. I have known her
personally for a many years.
I have read every book, and I still own one of the cars too.

There are 2 other things on my tag which are different than all the
other tags.
You should sit back and watch, because you are going to be very
surprised how this turns out.

But since you have looked at only 1 of the cars, that must make you an
Canadian Pace Car expert.
Which ones of the BB cars that have you seen don't have a fleet codes? -
There are just not any others.
maybe it was a mistake, but the evidence is pointing to Special. (I
would like to see your evidence otherwise)

So we can all speculate back and forth, but hard core evidence is going
to prove it.

Do you even know what the process would have been to make a 67 Yenko 427?
You should start there.

I have owned this car for many years, and have 5 classic Chevrolets in
my collection.
I am not selling this ever. - Someone contacted me from GM - Looking and
asking weird stuff about this car.
That's why I started asking questions.
Don't really care about the other 0-1 cars, but to keep everyone
interested, I am including them also.
So good luck,

Send the pictures of the trim tags to the Pace Car Guys or CRG
until you do that, no one will believe you.
Jeff"