Re: Judges
 

Here is the list I'm working on, like the Cuda's. Help me out.

[ QUOTE ]
Exterior, Interior, Top, Trans

1.Cameo White, Ivory, white, Auto @ In AZ (Hemi guy) last owned buy the guy in CA
2.Cameo White, Ivory, white, Auto
3. Cameo white, black, black, Auto @ May have pic at 97 GTOAA
4. Quezal Gold, black, black, 4 speed @ Gary in Tulsa painted blue
5. Aztec Gold, Sienna, Sandlewood, Auto
6.Aztec Gold, ivory, white, 4 speed
7.Special paint Camaro Rally Green, ivory, white, Auto @ In CA restored
8. Tropical Lime, black, black, Auto @ In WV
9.Tropical lime, black, white, Auto
10.Cardinal red, black, white, Auto @ In Seatle was in Sweeden
11.Cardinal Red, black, black, 4 spd @ Suydam in FL
12.Laurentian Green, black, black, Auto @ In FL restored was for sale in Hemings
13. Laurentian Green, ivory, white, Auto
14.Canyon Copper, Sienna, Sandlewood, Auto
15. Starlight blk, sienna, white, Auto
16.Lucerne Blue, blue, white, Auto
17.Castillian Bronze, Sienna, Sandlewood, Auto

The special paint car was painted a color that is close to 69 Camaro Rally Green. Ordered by a Florida dealer to pay tribute to Florida's state symbol the Alligator. It is probably close to being fully restored


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Judges
 

70 Judge Convertible on ebay

Re: Judges
 

Mac

How about this one...

The Hemmings Motor Book Of Pontiacs page 135

[ QUOTE ]
By 1971 Pontiac had developed a "High Output" 455 for the GTO, which devleloped 335 gross bhp on regular gas. And that, said Wangers, "was one of the best performing street Pontiacs they ever built."

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Judges
 

71 red 4sd

Found this pic on a page from "GTO Eastern Regionals 2001"

Caption reads "71 GTO Judge Convertible - Of the 17 Judge Convertibles only 3 were 4 speeds Of the 3 4 speeds only one was red. Yes this is it!"

Hopefully the same one Suydam has now, so as not to add bogus Judges to the puzzle. Anyone recognize the state from the front plate?

Re: Judges
 

This is to anybody that can answer this question:What was the most potent and strongest pontiac engine?I hear alot about the 455HO's RAlV's and 455SD's???

Re: Judges
 

Hi, I know a red 71 came out of Sweden. I thought it was the 4spd, that Kevin S. has now. Mine came out of Sweden too. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Judges
 

HI, The other cars in my little collection: 2 71 TAs, 1 stick(going soon to my 1st cousin) 1969 RAIV/4spd bird convert. silver loaded! 1970 RAIV/4spd Judge hardtop, Spec. order Daytona Yellow, & 70 RAIV/4spd TA White https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: Judges
 

Having fun driving them, is a overlooked part of the hobby. I drove my 71 TA 4.5 hrs ea. way to TA nats w/my 4 yr old. I take the car everywhere during the summer. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: Judges
 

That is why I asked if the one you mentioned much earlier was really an auto car, the one in Seatle? Because several people say Suydam's is the 4sp and that he still has it.

Plus I found this on CP:

[ QUOTE ]
I believe Gary Cave had the 1 of 3 71 Judge Convertible 4 speeds. I saw the car a couple of years ago at the Burdette Bros Pontiac show in Maryland. He said he had bought the car in pieces from someone overseas. It was a beautiful car. Gary apparently has quite a collection of rare Pontiacs. I hope to get by to see his collection some day.


[/ QUOTE ]

It takes a bit to sort through all the "he had", "sold there", "was in a barn", and all were red but only 1 was made.

Gary's (not the aboved mentioned Gary Cave) and Suydam's are the only two I can find that have a web presences, then a couple of others are talked about in some forums. It's not going to be as easy as the Cudas.

I went back 20 years on the HPP and didn't find a one cover story on a 71 Judge Rag, I am missing a few here and there would be my luck one of the missing ones has an artical.

Re: Judges
 

That makes sense, Gary was buying that red 71 4spd, when I bought his 70 orbitorange convt. Sweden was a haven for these convts. I assume, https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Judges
 

Steve, I'm a real avid mag. collector. I have a 2/80 Car collector, has great cover story(70 Orbit orange) on Judges, has 71 white convt. in there. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Judges
 

Here we go, I don't have Oct98. Do you or anyone else have this and can let me know which one it is and anything else of importance from the Mag?

[ QUOTE ]
The 71 Judge Conv. was on the cover of the 1998 Oct. issue of HPP.The were several options on the car.One of the rarest option # RPO 564,being electric seat back.When the door is opened a switch similar to the doorjamb light switch activates a solenoid in the seat and it can be folded foward instead of reaching in and pushing the button.The car also has a AM/FM radio with rear headphone jacks.It says in the magazine that the car had 7 years of on & off work done to it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Judges
 

MUSCLECAR REVIEW 1999 had a White/White feature, don't have that one eiher.

Re: Judges
 

WOW you have some serious cars there.It must be rough to pick a car each week to drive.Out of all of them what is your favorite?

Re: Judges
 

Eric

As much as you like round port cars, some day I hope your lucky enough to see the cars that Gary in Tulsa has. It's complete insanity and I will never understand how he got them all. It astonishes me that in all the years I have been messing with these cars I have never once found a round port car in my area, I guess it's because Gary got them all. HAHA

I have found some original round port cars but the motors have been long gone. The stupidest thing I have EVER done was in 1979, when I was 16 myself and Eddie Garcia found a 71 Judge in Porter Oklahoma. We talked the guy into selling it to us because he had wrecked the right front, we bought it for $75. The sad thing is we took it home and stripped it, then dumped the body at an apartment complex here in Tulsa. The round port motor had been taken out by the guy we bought it from and put it in a Pontiac station wagon sitting in his driveway. Wonder where that wagon is now?

My friend Eddie still has most of the Judge goodies off that car, glove box: spoiler: hood: and a few other things.

Like I said, the stupidest thing I've ever done.

Re: Judges
 

OK...... I think my big screw up was thinking Suydam was in Florida when in fact his cars are in Seatle.

So that would leave the red auto un accounted for. And it leaves me thinking the majority of these 17 are either tucked away and hidden or they are long lost.

The guys from Classical Pontiac think both magazine articles I questioned are the 1 white/white car that is now in AZ.

[ QUOTE ]
Exterior, Interior, Top, Trans


1.Cameo White, Ivory, white, Auto @ In AZ (Hemi guy) last owned buy the guy in CA
2.Cameo White, Ivory, white, Auto
3. Cameo white, black, black, Auto @ May have pic at 97 GTOAA
4. Quezal Gold, black, black, 4 speed @ Gary in Tulsa painted blue
5. Aztec Gold, Sienna, Sandlewood, Auto
6.Aztec Gold, ivory, white, 4 speed
7.Special paint Camaro Rally Green, ivory, white, Auto @ In CA restored
8. Tropical Lime, black, black, Auto @ In WV
9.Tropical lime, black, white, Auto
10.Cardinal red, black, white, Auto
11.Cardinal Red, black, black, 4 spd @ Suydam in Seatle, was Gary Cave’s and in Sweeden
12.Laurentian Green, black, black, Auto @ In FL restored was for sale in Hemings
13. Laurentian Green, ivory, white, Auto
14.Canyon Copper, Sienna, Sandlewood, Auto
15. Starlight blk, sienna, white, Auto

16.Lucerne Blue, blue, white, Auto
17.Castillian Bronze, Sienna, Sandlewood, Auto



The special paint car was painted a color that is close to 69 Camaro Rally Green. Ordered by a Florida dealer to pay tribute to Florida's state symbol the Alligator. It is probably close to being fully restored


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Judges
 

Here is part of the MCR article from 11/99.
Hope this works.
Andy

Re: Judges
 

Steve, too bad the 71 judge prob. is a coke can. the Red auto is in collection in N.H. I know Gary has alot of cars. My collection is & will stay @ 6, it can go down in # but not up. Too many car, & you can never enjoy them. We have 3 children all 5 & under, so time is limited. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Judges
 

That's hard to pick one. I would say that I favor the birds over goats. I think 70 is best handeling, but 69 TA is a unique looking 60s musclecar. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: Judges
 

Would you know the color break down for the 70 455HO Judge vert?The reason why I ask is that I have that information and I dont know if its correct.I was told that there were 2-Cardinal Red and 1-Polar wht car.Any one can jump in and correct me on this because I'm not sure if this info is accurate.

Re: Judges
 

I own two GTO's 70 Judge RAlll 4speed HT Palladium Silver and a 70 GTO HT 400 350hp Auto Baja Gold.My dad is the orginal own of the Baja Gold car.

Re: Judges
 

HI, I know of a mint red one, believe it's an auto. These are very rare, being 3 made, but the 455 is not a real desirable mtr. The raivs would be worth alot more$, plus a much better mtr. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif

Re: Judges
 

All the 70 Judge HT and verts were autos.Why did'nt the 455 Judge in 70 have 4speeds?You could get the same motor with a 4speed in a regular GTO.

Re: Judges
 

Just because it wasn't ordered doesn't mean it wasn't offered. It's like the RAIV Judge ragtop from 1969 - no autos.

Re: Judges
 

[ QUOTE ]
442w30

The white car you said is in AZ now, do you know if it is one of the 2 white int cars or the black int car?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the triple white car, formerly from CA as far as I know.

Re: Judges
 

That would be correct, 69 RAIV auto judge available, none ordered, but 69 auto raiv gto convert made. No 69 raiv TA converts, but 17 bird converts made, as I have a 4spd one. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: Judges
 

Hi, that 71 was a nice loaded ":frame on" went to Ariz. then? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Re: Judges
 

If it indeed is the same car, then yes. But the owner also lives in the Dakotas, so it could be there too.

Re: Judges
 

Then I would say it's the one showing up in the magazines.

I wish some one would speak up on the white/black int. one I found a pic of.

And by the way, that pic of the car in the parking garage is very cool!!! Did you take it, did you buy it, when was it?

Re: Judges
 

Never mind, I see you just answered my question while I was posting it. Except whether you got it?

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Judges
 

No, I owe the gov 20 grand for school. It'll be years till I get a second collector car. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif My consolation is that prices will go down when the Baby Boomers start dropping like flies. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif

Re: Judges
 

I have a pretty good magazine collection, including musclecar reviews back to 1985. If anyone needs any articles or info let me know. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: Judges
 

gtaa9 wrote:"This is to anybody that can answer this question:What was the most potent and strongest pontiac engine?I hear alot about the 455HO's RAlV's and 455SD's???"

They are all round port headed motors, which means the exhaust ports were round, instead of standard GTO D-port heads. They are all very similar, and MUCH stronger than D-port head engines.

1969
400 RAIV...Good flowing heads,10.75 compression, 308/320 duration .520 lift camshaft, 1.65 ratio rockers,screw-in studs,thick pushrods,4 bolt mains, beautiful aluminum 4 bbl intake, removeable heat crossover, Special Q-jet carb.
This was one of the musclecar era's strongest combo. Well tuned stock examples regularly run very low 13's.
--------------------------------------
1971
The 455 HO motor is basically a stroked low compression (version of the RAIV motor with a much milder 068, slightly inferior heads. This motor made tons of torque. Did the cubic inches make up for the loss of compression and camshaft?? This is a long debate, with even Pontiac themselves trying to say that it did. I think Pontiac knew the end of the muscle car era was upon them, and did the best they could, this was still a potent motor, however the cars they were installed in were getting heavier.
-----------------------------------------------
1973
The 455 Super Duty, Best flowing round port heads to date, however still low compression, still mild cam, aluminum intake now made of iron. Beefed up block, was ready to be raced. Headers helped this engine breathe tremendously as now it was only in the 73' Firebird/TA line with restrictive crossflow mufflers. Still an EASY mid-13 second performer, right off the showroom floor. A set of headers, step-up camshaft and a better intake and carb... and you had a bonefide street cleaner.
-----------------------------------------------
I think if Pontiac had made a High compression round port 455 motor in 1970, with the same attributes as the 69' RAIV engine, That would have cemented Pontiac's round port designed motors as one of the strongest ever built.
Instead we are left with debate as to which is better:
Smaller cubes and higher RPM. OR
More cubes and low compression, lower RPM.
Any one of the three, will put a smile on your face quick when you mash the pedal down.

Re: Judges
 

Well said https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: Judges
 

You left out the 68 1/2 RA-II which was the fore runner of the RA-IV. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif Cast intake and 1.5 rockers. Intake side (I think) did not flow like RA-IV. Jim Mino has probably the quickest PS Firebird around w/RA-II power and not RA-IV.

I am posting this just to make the controversy go on and on. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: Judges
 

Let me help you......

[ QUOTE ]
Any one of the three, will put a smile on your face quick when you mash the pedal down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have seen that smiling face in my rear view mirror. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif Sorry Poncho guys...I had to.

Re: Judges
 

Thanks for the information I appreciate it.I would think the smile on the face is a given. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif

Re: Judges
 

You are soooo right Bob, That's why I am looking for a Chevy now. I have finally seen the light and it is good https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: Judges
 

Bite your tongue! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Re: Judges
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bite your tongue!

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a common occurrence when Driving a Chevy https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif