Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

Matt
Here is a link to the previous thread with the Yenko's for sale in MA. Yenko's for sale.
One is for two '67s advertised at Rudy's. Good luck!

Steve

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

thanks for digging them up, since I live in Ma. I'm gonna go through the Springfield census records for both addresses , get the full names, and run a search through the internetfor surrounding areas, If any matches pop up , i'll call them and see, both sound interesting, the search is worth a try if I can get an orig. owner w/ pics or a protectoplate or something. Thanks again

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

I have done a lot of research on the 67 Yenko Camaro and can give my opinions. My original pictures and talk with original owner shows no Yenko crest and no Yenko tags. At the time I found my car all the restored Yenko Camaros had a Yenko crest on the fender and Warren did say he thought they put YS# tags on the 67 Camaros but I can find no original 1967 pictures of the Yenko crest and no 67 Yenko Camaros with YS# tags. Yenko seemed to be proud of his Yenko crest, as most would be, and put it on some of his racecars and streetcars. In original Yenko pictures there are 1968 Camaros and Corvettes with the crest but found none on 67s. Also there has been info from other original owners of 67 Yenko Camaros who said no crest. I also found some evidence that Yenko was working on a 1967 COPO Camaro and some of the 67 trim tags have a dash that I can find no explanation for. I talked with Jerry M , Larry C and some CRG guys but can’t pin down anything on the dash yet. Still working on that but I believe at least some of the 67 Yenko Camaros were special ordered cars. We know the Stingers were, so this would not be unusual for Yenko to get some type of special order. If anyone is researching the 67 or 68 Yenko Camaros I would like to hear from them.

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

hey joe,I wonder if yenko had first dibbs on the big blocks when they rolled off in early june 67',my car was built fifth week of may or first week of june, I guess it had to be one of the first, Warren said about that time the cars came w/ the 427s from chevy either directly to yenko or right to harrell if they were full, he seemed to imply they came w/ the 427 short block in it but then would need building up, he said they definetly didn't take receipt of the cars w/ a bunch of crate motors soon to follow or already waiting for them at the shop, Maybe the 54 list includes all ss350 conversions at yenko, and the 107 list includes the big blocks that started to follow mid year w/ 427 short blocks in them, Kevin's seems to be a mid year big block that went directly to harrell for assembly w/ receipts. The straight six vins might be factual cuz Harrell could probably take on converting these if copo dropped 427 short blocks in them to start, maybe chevy started w a few of them to get the idea how to set up the big block car for a motor that size ( such as installing a new heater box for clearance and beefier motor mounts, what does a straight six motor mount look like?( In all maybe yenko did the 54, and harrell did the other 53) Do you know anything about a vertical date stamp under the heater box near the inner fender support mine says h 17 r the 1 and r are underlined w/a dash, I have a h19 in between my drivers side door hinges , guys tell me it means august 17 and 19 but how could it if it was built in early june, does this imply a 66' diecast stamp when the body came from fisher, one guy says the r stands for right side and that their would be an L on the other side, but their clearly is not just H 19, so what could the R in H17 R stand for. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

well i found a rudys auto service in Seaford ,ny 3586 Merrick rd. Bill Arnold is manager, I'll ask if they originated in Springfield back in the sixties. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

"H 19" is a sheet metal date stamp. The "H" is the year, starting with "A"=1960, so "H"=1967. The 19 is the week# in the year.

For example, "H 19" is the 19th week of 1967, which starts on Sunday, May 14 -- which makes sense given your car's assembly date.

Not sure about the 'R' but I agree with the other folks who say it means right-hand-side. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

P.S.: Count the gears... http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/...net/4gears.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

That's sounds better to me denis but where is my L onthe left there isn't one just r underlined on under the heater box, that one says h 17, does this mean the right side was welded together the 17th week and the left side was welded together the 19th, did it take that long to get around to the other side, or were they taking their time trying to figure the first bigblocks on how to set them up for their drivetrains, the 1 in 17 is also underlined, but not the 7 or H for that matter, the 1 on the 19 appears underlined but nothing else. ALso was the orig bigblock cars just a z28 body and frame but a different heaterbox, did the z28 also have a taller driver's side mount ( if so probably for weight distribution on trans am tracks?) If the bigblock inherited this platform, they probably didn't forsee the heater box clearance issue till they tried to drop the first one in. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

The date stamps were when the panel was stamped out on a machine not when the panel was welded. Your car started as a Camaro body not a SS or Z28, they all start as Camaro bodys. You might go to www.camaros.org and look around. They have plenty of Camaro facts.

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

[ QUOTE ]
The straight six vins might be factual cuz Harrell could probably take on converting these if copo dropped 427 short blocks in them to start, maybe chevy started w a few of them to get the idea how to set up the big block car for a motor that size ( such as installing a new heater box for clearance and beefier motor mounts, what does a straight six motor mount look like?

[/ QUOTE ] So do you think the 6 VIN on your car may be correct for the car now ?

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

nope, doesn't coincide w/ number stamped into car on top of cowl, and in heaterbox, I'm just saying my car is only on the 107 list which also has straight six vins on it, people say these numbers aren't real yenkos, but the old yenko mechanic has my work orders and ys# on paperwork w/ vin for 5000$ of coarse so I won't be taking possesion of those for awhile. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

Who is the old mechanic with paperwork ?

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

I think he is talking about Warren. I would make Friends with Warren and get those papers bought..

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

yes,i not sure of his last name, but I know of other guys who got their workorders from him , the orders even tell you if yenko or harrell assembled the conversion, pretty cool. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

Well good luck on getting this car doc'd and done....I don't know jack about this stuff and I'm kind of surprised we haven't heard anything from the likes of SYC or BKH to grill you a little bit about it. Hell usually when a car comes on this site it catches some big scrutiny by some very knowledgeable people...that must be a good sign !!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

You Can say that again!!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

Yeah come on you sleeping giants!! I want to see someone else get into some sort of controversy for a change! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

I hear that Marlin has been to busy getting his hair done and his nails painted to post anymore and that Motown is in a nut house somewhere in Michigan! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

Hey, I am just sitting back and watching, as it looks like Berger is getting plenty of valuable information from other sources. In fact, I have already learned a few things. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

I did not know that Chevy built COPO Camaros in '67, especially a run of 427s. That the list of 107 Yenko VINs was for NHRA use, and might contain VINs of straight six cars, which Harrell may have converted.

My only question is, what happens if another car shows up with the missing VIN and trim tag. Who owns what? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

I have answered all of Bergers questions. He has PM'd me a few times. By the way, weren't you tired of "Diamond Certified" judges answering questions not that long ago. I am one of those judges...BKH

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

"My only question is, what happens if another car shows up with the missing VIN and trim tag. Who owns what?"...Good question. So what is the Heart and Soul of the car, the Body or the Trim Tag and vin plate ? I'm thinkin the the Guy with the vin plate has a legal problem since it does not belong on the car it is on.

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

Matt seems to be getting a lot of mixed info from different people. I did tell him I was researching a possibility of a COPO for 1967 Camaro but I never said it was for a 427. In my research I found that
On Sep 15, 1966 Don Yenko applied to Chevy for 3 COPOs. One for a different dash for the 67 Stinger, one for a 67 Nova for SCCA A/sedan class and one for a Camaro. It is not clear what Chevy allowed him to order. I also found strange info on four 67 Yenko Camaro trim tags. I told Matt that I don’t think that there were 107 Yenko Camaros built in 1967. There are a few reasons for this. One is that some of the YS#730-YS#740 cars were delivered in Sep of 67 when 1968 cars were already coming out. It does not seem likely that over 50 cars could be built and delivered that late in the year to get from approx YS#760 to YS#7107. There were some YS#6xx numbered cars but there would have to be over 50 of them, which seems unlikely. Yenko had to off load some cars to Harrell’s shop just to keep up with the YS#7xx cars. I have been surprised by some of the new info I found but I have not been able make any conclusions so all this is “just my opinion”. As I said before, I am interested in talking with anyone who is researching the 67 and 68 Yenko Camaros as I believe that more can be discovered if all the info can be pooled.

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

Not to worry Frank! I was the one who got Berger rolling by telling him that his vin was on the list of 107, not sure on the list of 54, and turned him over to JoeC and Warren D. Sometimes it's better to help people via PM's and phone calls instead of playing the whole thing out in public and drawing 'fire' for helping.

So far it's a tough car, has the right vin in the firewall, but no tags, and.... it's on the list of 107, not sure if it's on the list of 54, but Warren has papers for it. This lends creedance to the expanded count for '67 Yenko cars, and our theory that the 54 cars on the 'list' represents those cars that were sold through SPAN Inc, and were listed for commission payment purposes only. So, the jury is out on this one until more research is done. Berger seems to be doing fine job on that end, props to him, and the winning lottery ticket for that $5000 - that indicates 10 pieces of paper???

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

See...all you guys were hibernating....it ain't that cold...Charley since the VIN is still on the body I agree...if someone turns up with those tags they would be the ones out of luck.

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

What if the other owner (tags) has gone through the proper channels and has a clear title? Lets say a salvage title, where it is legal to combine two cars to make one. I am sure this person would not surrender the tags without a fight and/or compensation. Most likely a issue for the courts to decide.

Also, if Berger goes to have a trim tag made, what codes does he put on it, not knowing how the car was equipped?

As I told him in a PM, IMO, the car is best left as a race car, where these matters are not of such great importance. IMO, the only way I see that the car could be of major value would be if the original tags were reunited with the original body. Otherwise, there will always be this cloud of mystery (missing tags) hanging over the car.

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

Question from a new guy,

so when a person pays this Warren gentleman for paperwork how complete is it?? what exactly do you recieve??
Does it have a copy of the window sticker in the file??

Bud.

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

kevin already posted his work orders he got from warren , I forget where I saw the thread here, but it cleary states what was to be converted on the car, all the way down to hood pins, it included labor charges, tax etc, and if yenko was doing it or Harrell, when I spoke with warren he said if Harrell was to do the work the car and motor went straight to his shop from the factory and not through canosburg, these orders are good because it gives you a blueprint of how to orig. restore the car, so you wouldn't put sidepipes on the car if they weren't originally ordered.
As for the trimtag, the only things missing in the car is the drivetrain and seats , I got everything else,(chrome exterior app. package, interior app. package chrome, whole dash, headliner(black), and speedometer 120mph, 22,739 miles. Plus allthe suspension, steering, and brakes as I posted in my pics.) The only thing I don't know is if it had deluxe or standard seats, or shoulder belts. I found a former owners' dad in ny, son owned it in79', he' s gonna try to get me in touch w/ him, he sold it as partscar,it seems they owned 2 camaros the other blew its motor and they tried to reg. mine, motor ran but rear was still blown from back in the day so they never drove it, apparently they parted it out seats, steering wheel, rs grill, wheels, until they sold the carw/ motor to I guess the man I am now chasing about pulling the motor in80' nearby. He didn't speak of selling the tags, but it would seem reasonable if it was getting picked apart, that someone who had a 396 and a 67' camaro might just need L78 tags to make his small block look like a legit BB, The father didn't think the motor 427 was orig, because he didn't think they came w/ them in 67'. It sounds like it had dual quads at that time also, but this would coincide w/ the rest of the cars race components that had been installed back when it was racing, they knew it was an old drag car but knew nothing about it being a yenko when they bought it, I hope to get more info from the son and locate who they bought it off, I'll keep trackin' her back to the protectoplate if I gotta. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

In my opinion the other guy does not have a Yenko, he has tags and maybe a Title. I see nothing wrong with restoring this car back as a Yenko .

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

[ QUOTE ]
In my opinion the other guy does not have a Yenko, he has tags and maybe a Title. I see nothing wrong with restoring this car back as a Yenko .

[/ QUOTE ]


So, in your opinion, Berger should spare no expense in restoring this car, as it is a Yenko, and once completed, will be worth the investment, as once completed, it will bring the same $$$ as other documented '67 Yenkos.

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

I have no idea if he should spare no expense as I have no idea what his financial situation is. I think if restored as a Yenko it will be worth alot more than a Camaro but less than a Orig tagged Yenko. If he restored it as a Yenko what would the SYC consider it ? And would Ed issue it a Certificate ? There are cars out there that are nothing more than Titles and Trim tags that are still selling for Supercar Money and considered Supercars so why should this car be treated as a lessor car ? Great discussion Fodder.

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

I agree with most of what has been said, except for the part about the missing tags. Here is why. I know of more then one instance where tags from one car were installed on another (accident, rust, other?) with the remaining pieces of the old car left for salvage. Then one day, the body reappears, thus 2 cars with the same VIN. I owned one of 2 '66 Shelby Mustangs with the same VIN and I have been told there is a ZL-1 out there that this has happened to and I know of at least one instance of a Yenko race Corvette being in court over a similar type situation.

And what if the person with the tags had posted first,
would everyone be telling him instead that he has a Yenko? It is a Yenko, but who has what? We all have our opinions of which is of more importance, the body or the tags, but in reality, who can really say, except for a judge? Acknowledging a car's heritage is one thing, its' ownership a whole 'nother ballgame.

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

I know I'd much rather have a real Yenko with missing VIN and trim tags than an original set of Yenko tags riveted to a non-supercar. If the guy with the original tags to this car ever surfaced, I would say all he has is a couple of cool collectibles for his scrapbook, not a Yenko car. As far as value goes, no question a car that hasn't been messed with and has all its tags in place, etc. has more value than one that doesnt, but as Charlie said, there are plenty of cars out there that many consider supercars which are really just original tags riveted to a different body. At least this is a real Yenko car, not just a real Yenko VIN tag. JMO.

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know I'd much rather have a real Yenko with missing VIN and trim tags than an original set of Yenko tags riveted to a non-supercar. If the guy with the original tags to this car ever surfaced, I would say all he has is a couple of cool collectibles for his scrapbook, not a Yenko car. As far as value goes, no question a car that hasn't been messed with and has all its tags in place, etc. has more value than one that doesnt, but as Charlie said, there are plenty of cars out there that many consider supercars which are really just original tags riveted to a different body. At least this is a real Yenko car, not just a real Yenko VIN tag. JMO.

[/ QUOTE ]


So any supercar out there that has been "rebodied", which if the turth were told would be several, is not legit, regardless of who or how? All these owners really have are items for their scrapbooks? Hmmmm..., glad you said that, not me. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

If the only original Yenko part of your car is a the VIN tag and the body trim tag, then yes, i say its a clone. But I also say, thats simply MY personal opinion.

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

Just to make things more cloudy, there is a Yenko Camaro here in PA that was stolen years ago. The owner had removed the original engine due to the high gas prices, and had a SB in it. After 5+ years the car is recovered in Florida, as a stolen car - no vin tags. The owner gets the car back, but no VIN plate. Since he had the original title, registration, police report, and the orig engine, it was easy to determine that it was his car. The PA - DOT and the PA State Police actually issued him a special anodized plate with the VIN and riveted it to the firewall, over by the heater box I believe. Now the car is fully titled and registered.

So, if it was possible to do such a thing with this car, Berger may have another avenue to pursue. If this '67 car was indeed stolen in the past, and the tags removed, it might be possible to research the vin in all states looking for a 'stolen vehicle report' - in my mind a viable reason to actually utilize the NICB - and see what comes up in other states. The down side is that maybe the guy who had it stolen might get it back, then you might have to give up the car - unless the owner was paid off by his insurance company. How would that work Kim?

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

I agree Marlin. But he says they did a check to make sure it isn't a stolen car and it came back clean. But is the Yenko VIN actually registered to a 6 cyl car somewhere? Since the hidden VIN verifies this car's heritage, I can't see how it would be worth much less than any other 67-69 Yenko without the original motor. It's a bummer not to have the VIN and trim tag, but the hidden VIN verifies what the car really is. As for the value of a rebodied supercar, it basically is a clone in my opinion. I don't see how you can pull everything off a car and put it on another body shell and call it the original car. The value would be what the engine, trans, rear, interior, fenders, etc. are worth to somebody. If a body shell is rusted or damaged beyond repair, may the car RIP.

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

well. she did come back clean, and my uncle who is a law enforcement officer also restores vetts, so he is using his resources available to him in trying to track my or the six's vin to a current registered car in the tri-state and new england area, no luck yet, our best luck has been contacting former owners through past bills of sale and registrations in the car, its worked well so far back to the mid seventies, right now I'm trying to see if that owner sold the tags to a friend who gave him his six's to slap on when selling car as parts. My uncle says its a federal offense to place wrong tags on a car whether you buy them or not so they could lose the whole car if they don't give them up when found(the main problem w/ swithchin tags isn't theft, these cars were 5000 new back then , it was taking a car and committing a big time crime and dumping the vehicle w/ bogus tags to avoid evidence getting traced back to you, he says the whole reason the companies had to place the vin stamp in the heater box and cowl was that not many criminals wwere either knowledgeable or thorough enough to belt sand these off to cover tracks,many didn't even know where they are, Your also forgetting one important point in determining these cars for resale, I've had guys tell me PM to just have new tags made and placed on car, they speak as if they've done it before, that scares me for whoever bought their stuff at auction, in conclusion, we'll be doing the resto ourselves, for 50,000 I could do 3 67's over from scratch, I'd never pay the kind of money at auction some pay, its like legalized gambling you hope its real , you tell youreslf its a good investment like real estate and you can't lose, well like the stock market good luck if the market turns. I see it this way I paid 500 for her we'll do everything in house from engine rebuild, to welding to paint, and we'll enjoy doing it not because what it may be worth in the future, but because we enjoy making something from just about nothing and we can use it for 15yrs and paint it again, in my eyes if A car doesn't have its orig drivetrain ( which is really what seperated these cars from the flock) well than its worth about what my unorig 327 67' is worth since they look identical, about5000 to 8000 if I sell it at prime time at a car show in the spring, hey guys its just a neglected car nobody took the time to take care of, its not the cure for cancer, ya know. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

What exactly does this list of 107 mean ? Especially if there are 6 cyl VIN's as has been said previously ? Are we to assume that all of these 107 were 427 cars ? And is there any way to actually prove that ? How do people know that this list is a list of Super Cars ?

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

I'm just learning this stuff on the fly too, some guys say their is a 54 list which no one knows when it was drafted ,its purpose , or where it was sent too. Then there is a list of 107 that was sent to the nhra apparently on two seperate occasions, for qualified status. the 107 has groups of vins that are also on the 54 but some that are not including straight six vins, I hear there is an 67 car that isn't on either list but has tons of paperwork, so I don't know, maybe if your on one list you get 50000, 2lists you get 100000, 3 certified `documents equals one list , I don't know, if you don't have a matching vin on motor and car its like rolling the dice to me, and none of these had a partial vin on 427, if the guy didn't budge on the 1000 he wanted when I bought it for the four piston calipers then I would of passed and wouldn't be losing any sleep over it, I don't intend to lose any now cuz the last six owners left her out to rust and the orig. owner used her the way they were all and still meant to be used and ripped her twelve bolt out and threw it away dropped in a super 88 rear w/ 5.13 gears and proceeded to blow those right out of her, my hat's off to him, I'll try and do the same and make him proud https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

Berger, this list of 107 VINs. How did you arrive at the conclusion that it was for NHRA use, (NHRA required either 50 or 500), and also, that it contained straight 6 numbers?

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

i got that info from the deuce registry , he only needed 50 but submitted 107, twice, got rejected twice, they knew they were dealer installed and dodge was pressuring nhra. Unless I got that info wrong I'm pretty sure I got the same from other sources through private mail. I figured all you guys owned all these lists, now I think only some got them and some just partials, I hear vince in the day would give you a copy of the sheet yours was on, you guys must be piecing these partials together, at least privately. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: 67 baldwin motion identification question/new memb
 

[ QUOTE ]
hey guys its just a neglected car nobody took the time to take care of, its not the cure for cancer, ya know.


[/ QUOTE ] Agreed...and drive it like youe stole it !