Re: General LT-1 Information
 

That's the '182 cam! That's what is going in over the winter [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Good going Marlin! Is Day-2 beginning to rub off on Ya? It is a shame that we can't find very early NOS LT1 cams, because they really worked. The GM LT1 short block we installed in 1972 in my 69 nova was a killer. When that cam hit around 2600 rpm's it snapped to 7000 rpm like you had nitros. Chevy does not grind the cams like that any more it seems. Marlin, Those original LT1's and 1970 Yenko's beat many a big block cars. I was there first hand! Horse Power per cubic inch...Nothing [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif[/img] out performs a SMALL block chevy!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] Sam

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Thanks Rob. The next 302 we build I am going to do a little more research on cams. They seem to be different compared to years ago. I just have to watch how much duration because I want my power brakes to work. Also I don't want to put a 5:13 rear in my car. Like we said before, it is really about the whole combination. Sam [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good going Marlin! Is Day-2 beginning to rub off on Ya?It is a shame that we can't find very early NOS LT1 cams, because they really worked. Chevy does not grind the cams like that any more it seems.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure I'm following you, Sam? Crane offers blueprint cams to replace the LT-1 cam, 30/30 cam and the Off Road cam...wasn't their only 1 cam offered in the LT-1? Not trying to get smart, but I must be a page behind! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I think it would be safe to say the Crane units are good units, and they are ground identical to the original units. Whether you pick up an NOS cam or a Crane blueprinted unit, they should be the same except for their age. I've been nothing but happy with my "143" from Crane, and I think it would be safe to say that Pete likes his Crane units as well.

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Rob, I am not unhappy with my Crane Cam. What I am saying that there was a difference in the early years. The spec cams and the new G.M. cams do not seem to have the pull and strength through the rpm range as do the old cams. The snap just doesn't feel like it is there. I have the same engine builder as I did 30 yrs. ago and we all agree. The seat of the pants feeling just don't seem to be the same, with all things being equal. Ask some more old timers, I think they might agree with this. Just my 2 cents. Sam

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Without trying to start any spitting matches, and fully agreeing with Rob on the spec comparison, and being fully qualified as an old timer, I kinda agree with Sam. Englers red deuce is a dead nuts rebuild of an LT/1. Even has Ross pistons, and I don't believe its as fast as my original deuce. Then again maybe its just my oldtimers kickin up. Schonye

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

There was a difference. The only thing is that you probably just had to have been there. The snap doesn't seem to be there. Whatever [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

So, what's the difference? Headers then, manifolds now, or vice versa? Trannys? Got an original LT-1 cam? Would be cool to get an "early LT-1 cam" on a cam doctor see what's up.

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Wish I had an original cam, or early NOS LT1. I would put it in the short block we are am building now. Headers do help, manifolds are restrictive. Wide ratio trans. also get you out of the hole better. Did any body ever really check a spec cam? Lift and duration, lobe centers, ramp speeds, are they really what they say they are. I never personally checked a spec cam from Crane. I just took there word for it being a 1969 302 spec cam. I am going to pay more attention to what cam we use in this motor. Maybe try a different cam company.

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

I still have my original cam, is it useful for spec'ing against a new Crane? It's got 99k miles on it [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would be cool to get an "early LT-1 cam" on a cam doctor see what's up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rob & Sam,

Perhaps my first post on this subject was unclear, but this is exactly what I did. Like Sam, I was convinced that there was a difference between the original specification LT-1 camshafts and what Crane was providing to GM. In an effort to prove that theory, I had three cams checked on Jere Stahl's equipement... Cam #1 was an original cam removed from a 1970 LT-1 Corvette at 1,600 miles (I fully intended to use this cam in my own engine). Cam #2 was an original cam removed from a 1970 LT-1 Corvette at 67,000 miles (my own car). Cam #3 was a Crane supplied GM cam purchased a few months before it was discontinued.

After spot checking several intake and exhaust lobes, what I finally ended up proving was that all three were identical (there was some reduced lift on Cam #2, but I attribute this to it having 67,000 miles on it)... There was no difference between the original 1970 LT-1 camshafts and what GM was selling over the counter in 2000-2001.

I would fully expect an original 1971 LT-1 camshaft to be identical to the 1970 version. I would love to check a 1972 LT-1 camshaft though... Just to see if GM carried through the entire LT-1 production run with the same camshaft. My guess is that they did, but I'd still love to prove it just to satisfy my curiosity.

Regards,

Stan Falenski

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Hey Stan, I think it would be a good idea to buy a crane spec for your car and sell me the used LT1 stick with 1,600 miles on it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] Thanks, Sam

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Put it in, it is probably faster than the crane. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

With all due respect fellas...... Rowdya Rat has done his homework. Stock specs are stock specs. I think the seat of your pants has a hole in it!
Peter [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

I'm a young-timer, so I'm going with Stan's research and results. Crane it will be, and we'll take it to the track in the spring [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Good going Marlin! That is the way to put it to rest! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img] Sam

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good going Marlin! Is Day-2 beginning to rub off on Ya? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] Sam

[/ QUOTE ]


Marlin,
Does this mean that you're going to put those whitewall tires on the shelf too?

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Nope!! The whitewalls are staying on, so are the Yenko wheels.

I really don't care for the Atlas style wheels on the gobi beige, so my polyglas tires are off the mags and are going on my '69 SS Nova with steel wheels and dogcaps. I just got the rallye green paint matched today for those wheels, anxious to weld, grind and paint something [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Call me slow, but...I still don't see how two identically spec'd cams will run differently? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img] Does your engine guy have a dyno? That would prove/disprove a lot of this, and is calibrated and repeated, as opposed to the seat of your pants! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I've been on a LOT of passes where I would have swore I was on a low 12 second pass, only to get my time slip and have it say 13 something!

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Rob, You are not slow. I am just telling you my experiences over the last 33 years. Lift, duration, lobe center are one thing, but ramp speed and how it is degreed is another thing.I am not sure all the spec cams are really to spec. I just feel that the early 302 cams and the LT1 cams are better than the aftermarket (spec) grinds of today. We don't have to agree on this. I am just telling you from my experiences. None of my motors were on the dyno. Maybe cams are like carbs, there are no 2 alike. Just ask Jerry MacNeish, or any Stock, Super Stock guy. I am not really unhappy with my crane cam, I just like the chevy's performance better. Sam [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Fair enough! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Its just 50 year old guys like me talking to 28 year old guys like you. Some day you will tell your kids things that can't always be explained. This is a great forum! Keep it up. Thanks, Sam [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Hey guys, do not make up now. Come on, you are half way to beating the record for the most pages of posts. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

How about something like, my cam is bigger then yours? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Hey Sam,

I'm from PA and was wondering who your engine builder of 30 years is and where he's from.

Paul T

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Hi Paul. I am always ready to put a plug in for my buddy. Pete's Automotive in Pottstown, Pa. Used to run Modified Eliminator with a 1957 chevy wagon called "Mother Nature."Good guy with good prices. Does 409's and all kinds of carb and head work. Used to race against Ken Montgomery in the old days at Maple Grove. (610)326-8322 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

If Pete does 409 work and has been doing things for 30 years, then he'll know Ron Ruth and the "Get Around". Ron past away a few years ago but every time I hear of a 409 I think of my dad's ol' buddy.

Anyways, I live in Glenside about 1/2 mile from Ken M's shop. I'll have to ask my pop about Pete. Just like to keep tabs on some of the older engine builders as they have quite an involvement with some of the greater cars in the area.

Unfortunately for me, my guy- Doug Myers- has been doing mostly roundy-round guys so there are not as many old stories of muscle cars to follow up on.

Cheers to you,

Paul

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Paul, Doug Myers and Pete are friends. Doug does some machine work for Pete. Pete does all the assembly, heads and carb work, but Doug does his boring and honing. Pete does the 409's for Wooley Bully and also Ronnie (wildfire) Evans.I think he did some work for Vern Frantz, a member of this board. I remember Ron Ruth at Vargo. The car was called Get Around. Ran great mid 60's. Maybe I will see you at the Vargo Dragway Reunion. Nov. 1st I have a 1969 RS-Z/28. Sam [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Sam's comment,some things can't be explained,kinda rings true.When I first got to know Marlin I asked him if Yenko had changed cams in the deuces as they seemed to run better than comparable cars.He said no he did'nt. I'm sure thats true, but I asked because I had a friend with a 70 Z28 LT1 that ran very well, But about 2 carlengths slower than my deuce. He was running a 3.73 to my 4.10, but still seemed like I was putting out more HP.
Seat of the pants is hard to go by these days at 51. Finding my a$$ with either hand sometimes is a good day.
Someday Rob we'll see what a original deuce cam specs out to. I've got the orginal one from Belks orange deuce. Schonye

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Hey Schonye, Must be the generation gap. I have 4 boys from ages 26 to 17. I am never right with them either. Maybe because they take after my wife! But then again, I met her at the drags. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]Sam

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

The Crane blueprint cam is going in! I'm anxious to see what the 'seat of the pants' difference is https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

** Cheater ** https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Now how is that 'cheatin' https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Alright! What are you trying to start here, a race?
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Fix your heads? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

What cam did you have in it Marlin. I thought you restored it with a blue print cam. Sam

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Wha ?

Marlin's got cheater heads TOO ?? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

These SBC guys are sure sneaky ..........

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

[ QUOTE ]
What cam did you have in it Marlin. I thought you restored it with a blue print cam. Sam

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a different blueprint .......... it's a GobiBeigePrint ....... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/headbang.gif )AHHH I just don't know anymore guys! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

If I didn't know better I'd think Casey was over here pickin' fights! His W-31 runs some 12.8s and he becomes a bully!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif But, since he's seen the light and joined the L72 fraternity I guess I'll cut him some slack...https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Get that Deuce back together, M...Stanton is gonna be here before you know it!