I know it would be a very long haul, but it would be so cool to see this car at the Super Car Reunion.

As an SCR sponsor, I think that is a requirement.
Have they set a date for this year yet ??

SANO!!!!!!:drool:

That is one clean build. A Lot of good ideas under there. Looking real nice.

In the last few weeks, I've had an opportunity to get the Nova out. Like any new build, there are always a few bugs to work out. I assumed this would be the case, so there is no surprise on my end.

When Wayne and I consummated our deal, we were in the dead of winter. Wayne was kind enough to change the coolant over to an antifreeze blend. Given the time of year, Wayne was not allowed the luxury of time and environment to get the cooling system bled out properly. Wayne did warn me these siamese bore blocks can be a bit tricky to get the air bled out of them properly. There was an issue where the temp would be just fine, then take off......to only come back down to 180, and repeat. Wayne and I had a nice conversation to which he gave me a few tips. I have made some significant improvements in this regard, but I still feel there is room for improvement. I also played around with some timing adjustments, and that showed some gains as well. As many of you know, a combination like this is far from a plug and play.

The brakes are awesome in the car and can back up the performance of the car (more on that later). The pedal pressure is a bit firm. I feel I can improve on that and have a different bore master cylinder. The front suspension combination is firm and holds the road wonderfully. Wayne was quick to point out he wanted as much caster as reasonably possible given the "purpose" of the Nova. Wayne had done the alignment in his shop. I've got to say........this is impressive. I will get the Nova in front of a good local alignment guy to dial that in a bit more.

So the last question that everyone seems to ask.........how's that thing run?
Well......in short.......it's F'n silly. The engine's idle is somewhat docile (if you want to call 1100 rpm docile) and has good manners in a driving scenario. The experience Wayne has in these types of builds is blatantly evident. Between the carb, the converter, and the gearing......the car just works. Mash the loud pedal.......you best be paying attention. If I "whack" the tires hard, they get nice and sticky. Then it's game on. The rear suspension works although the motor can still overpower the "hook". A perfect street car:naughty:

As I had mentioned in a previous post, the fit, finish, and eye for detail on the car can only be appreciated in person. If you spent just an hour looking around the car by yourself, I think many of you could see and appreciate what I see.

This is not an easy car to build. Even more difficult yet to get the project to execute as planned. Wayne has built a killer car here. Furthermore, he was a gentleman to deal with, and the end product was everything he made it out to be.

So, what's next you may ask? I'll share this. Once I am comfortable with the car and happy with all of the little details, I foresee a next stage. Backing up a little bit, one of the questions I asked Wayne when making our deal on the Nova, "if you kept the car, what would you do?" Without hesitation, he said "a stick". (Great minds think alike).

As I write this, a mutual friend of Bill Wente and myself reached out a couple of days ago. One of his friends (Brian's friend) has a brand new M23 from Midwest Muncie (here in Wisconsin) that he is not going to use. These transmissions can handle 800hp on a sticky tire. In order to package everything the way I'd want to, this will be far more than cutting a hole in the floor for the shifter. I would want to keep the bench seat, yet place the shifter as close to me as possible. That would require some surgery on the seat. Then, a stick with this kind of power can hurt a car that is not properly reinforced. The body on this car, the panel fit, and the way it drives is to die for. I have to research my options before moving forward.

My parting comment is this. Jake Dykstra........you are not the only one dealing with project creep:beers:

As my last side note in this post....I think Dave Dykstra found the secret cam grind that's in the 565:burnout:

Very cool car.
Do you have an evacuation kit for the cooling system ? I have the Airlift brand and it eliminates trapped air in hard to purge systems.
There are MANY different brands and styles now available from several years ago when I got this one. It uses shop air to evacuate and then pulls the mixed coolant back in from a pail.
https://www.yenko.net/forum/cache.ph...%2Fs-l1600.jpg

I've got that from a couple of LS builds. That helped. It can be better IMO

I agree and it looks like there are better kits out now, not so dependent on all the adapters and such to leak.

Thank you for the kind words Tim. I totally agree with your comments on getting rid of the trapped air inside that big bore Dart block. I didn’t have an evacuation tool so what I did (pre-antifreeze) was to jack the car up front and then back and then from side to side to “shake them loose”. 😅It was never perfect but I’m positive Tim will nail it.

The car will be an absolute riot with a stick! It was my plan from the very beginning but I chickened out, even though I had (at the time) a dual disc Tilton clutch, a scattershield with an adjustment window and a fabricated rod end linkage plus all of the little parts. Getting the right shifter will be the biggest task. A Long inline (a better built, modern version of the old VGate) would be the best but I’m not sure if it will work without considerable tunnel surgery. Next best I think would be a Long H pattern (a better built, modern version of the old Super Shifter), but I never did figure out if it requires cutting of the sheet metal crossmember inside the tunnel. So…get your tape measure out Tim :)! The fun reward will be worth it.

Honestly I’m glad someone like Tim has the car because he has the skills and knowledge to deal with it. The Nova is seemingly tame but at W-O-T it’s a ferocious beast and has the capability of biting back in the wrong hands.

Have fun Tim. The rush as the tach crosses 6500 RPM is, well, considerable! I miss you Nova Jane. W

Great car, appreciate you keeping us in the loop as you refine it!

Wayne, nice attention to details. Few know how much effort it takes to get that level of appearance on a chassis. Wow.

As I was watching the build of this awesome Nova the only thing that I was disappointed in was the automatic transmission. I believe a 4 speed will make it complete.

I don't know how much difference there is in the Camaro and Nova floor in the transmission area, but I've had several transmissions and shifters in my '69 Camaro. I started with a M20 with a super shifter. That required a larger hole in the floor, but I was able to bend the tunnel enough to clear the shifter rods without cutting a huge slot in the floor for that. I ran a M23 with a RamRod and a McLeod RXT for a while and my 3600 pound car went 10.85 with that transmission. It would have been quicker if I was a little better at shifting. The car now has a G Force G101A with a Long inline shifter, and I only had to open the hole a little bit for this shifter. I never had to cut into the floor cross member for these shifters. I have the original big block mounts and cross member in my car which moves the transmission to the passenger's side a little bit. That gave me a little more room for the shifter. I can post a few pictures if interested.

That would be great Freddie. I am definitely going with a Long shifter. Not sure if I'll do the "ram rod" or the H pattern. I had a ram rod in my previous Nova, and it was a hoot. A little cumbersome in a street car, but this sure ain't a daily driver.

Tim

I'll try to remember to post some pictures later today when I'm on my own computer. Is there something specific that you need to see?

Mostly interested in how close the shifter rods are to the tunnel, as well how close the shifter is to the brace. I suppose anything else you feel is of interest Freddie.

Thanks,
Tim

Honest question-why not just use a TKX 5 speed and alleviate the tunnel issues and gain an overdrive gear?

I don't think it would live behind this motor when it hooks. I certainly agree with your point. I also know there are some guys getting a TKX to work in these scenarios. I just hate doing things twice.

Gotcha. I have seen that American Powertrain offers a blueprinted and upgraded TKX that is rated to 900 lb/ft instead of 600. https://americanpowertrain.com/shop/...ITvOhmOMbNo3qV

I would Question the Durability of the Recent M23'S behind that motor too. I grenaded a brand New one within 100 miles of installation with 600 HP & Sticky Street Tires And I know of 3 or 4 other guys who have had similar catastrophic results. A G-Force G101a with a Long H pattern Shifter is the Hot ticket !

I also broke my M23 on the street, but I think it was my fault for powershifting into second while the tires were still spinning wildly in first. I didn't break it on the strip with slicks. I would launch it at around 5500 and powershift at about 7200. The G101A is a strong transmission, but not a lot of fun on the street due to the harsh shifts with no syncronizers.

Napa, T56 is what you would want. Just not sure if it needs tunnel work in a Nova?

Are you going to run the car at the track as is?

If everyone here doesn’t mind, I’d like add some info. I researched every available manual transmission and spoke to many folks in the industry before converting the car to an automatic. First… the likely candidates that don’t fit the stock tunnel: A T56 won’t fit in the stock tunnel. A Lenco is the almost perfect solution but it requires considerable tunnel mods along with seat modifications as well as a fabricated trans mounting arrangement.

Next, the transmissions that more or less fit the tunnel: I spoke with the Syracuse Muncie folks (the company that actually builds the new Super Muncies and all of the parts for them). They were very reluctant to actually sell me one, based upon the engine and car specifications. Next I tried to contact Jerico. The original designer and manufacturer of Jerico was an old acquaintance of mine (sadly Jerry Hemmingson passed away a few years back). In truth the new owners of Jerico have placed the company into a place where it may not exist in the future. So then I called Craig Liberty (Liberty Transmissions). Liberty five speeds are the only gearbox used in NHRA Pro stock today. I asked Craig about a modified TKX. He should know because his company modifies and sells them for bigger power applications. When I told him the specs of Jane, he actually laughed at me. Bottom line here is the case isn’t sufficiently strong. I’d be driving over the transmission (pieces). Two good options from Liberty are Craig’s in house clutch type five speeds, but they’ll be noisy and perhaps not much fun on the street. They also require a custom trans crossmember. Next is G Force. They offer four and five speeds. The four speed 101A pretty much bolts in, and as Big Gearhead has pointed out, even with a road race slider, there are some compromises on the street.

Bottom line here though (at least for me) was the only reasonable option was to use the 101A if I decided to use a stick. Now all of you know why the car was completed with a Turbo 400. The problem with any big power street car with an automatic is that it is next to impossible to get enough converter in the car and still have it streetable. And those aren’t only my observations. My old racing partner Mike Pustelny (and the guy who actually designed, prototyped and built the chassis components -parts- for the modern Cobra Jet Mustangs, the Drag Pack Challenger and the five and six gen COPO Camaros) echoed my statement on converters. . Add a reverse pattern valve body with a trans brake and “enough” converter to Nova Jane there would likely be no talk about stick shift transmissions. L-O-L . But streetable modified cars are full of compromises and the Nova I built is certainly no exception.

With all of that said, it’s not my car anymore. It Tim’s. And I’m absolutely positive he can select the best transmission for his needs and desires. Thanks for the opportunity to add my two cents. Wayne

Here is the bolt in T56 kit from American Powertrain. Should call them and see what tu nel mods are needed?
https://americanpowertrain.com/shop/...-nova-ventura/

Legend LGT-700 5speed?

If it's the same tunnel or similar to the '64-'72 chevelle, you basically have to raise the entire tunnel over the trans an inch. I did this twice and used another tunnel "cap" out of a different car and fully welded it. This actually helped the loose carpet from ACC fit a bit better. If you've got a rubber mat, no clue.
I have a Jerico roadrace trans used in Michael Wallace' car in the Watkins Glen course. IIRC, it's a 2.78 first gear 4 speed. I ran it in my '55 chevy for maybe 1000 miles. It's a beast, and I had to learn the tricks of adapting it to street use. It also saw several 1/4 miles bouts, dropping the full metallic clutch at 7000. It's virtually perfect inside and sitting, waiting for a future project. Had no idea Jerico was under new ownership. Makes me a bit concerned of ever needing parts. The heim joiint linkage would likely need a bit of messaging on the left side tunnel.

This is my '69 Camaro with big block engine mounts and big block transmission cross member. The first picture shows the size of the hole needed when I installed the Ram Rod on a M20. The next pictures are of a Super Shifter, the Ram Rod and the Long inline shifter. The next pictures are of the hole needed to get the Long shifter to fit. I was able to bend the side of the tunnel enough to get enough clearance for the rods to clear without having to cut anymore out of it. The next one shows the difference between the M23 with the Ram Rod and the G101A with the Long shifter. Notice the vent on top of the M23. If you don't want oil on your transmission when drag racing you need to fix your vent like this. The last one is my car with the M23 on a high 10 second run. I picked up .200 when I put the G101A in it with no other modifications. I know this is a lot to add to the original post, so have it deleted after you look at it if you want. I don't know how close the Camaro and Nova tunnels are in size and location, but hopefully this will help.

I believe they went out of biz a while back. The FB page hasn't been updated in eight years.
W

Freddie (Big Gear Head) This is awesome information and equally great pix for anyone with a similar car (floorpan)!...above...

W

I think the TKX will be "ok" if this is 90/10 street to track time car? And without slicks, that would help too. Also, look at a clutch tamer to help the trans live at the track

https://grannys.tripod.com/clutchtamerdiy.html

NAPA, are you going to take this car to the dragstrip and race this car? Reason I ask is MY '69 Nova SS396 has been 10.40's with a mildish 396/402 and the Polishing Sneakers 427/433. Those were accomplished with a M21 over about 3/4 years, mostly a streetRACED car. Traded for a built PG with 5500 converter. I lasted another 5 years on the street in a '69 Chevelle with a nice 406.

I launched the car @ 5500 with 4.56 in a 12 bolt with GY 9 x 30 slick. I used a Ram 3800 lbs B & B pressure plate with a Ram 3 disc clutch WITHOUT springs.

IF your just racing the car, Ya the TKX won't live, then go with a Liberty LSC5?00 trans.

Thanks Freddie for the pics and the insight, as well as the rest of you that took the time to toss in some thoughts / experience. I've got some information to digest now. A call to American Powertrain may be in order. I'm a little skeptical that they can raise the torque rating 50% with what looks to be the same case. I'll follow up!

Tim

Tim, what is the Hp and Tq rating on this engine?

Stolen Photo. This is what happens to a blue printed, faceplated TKX when fed big power (this was actually in a Cobra kit car -- clearly lighter than a Nova or Camaro). Work was done by Liberty. The case is too thin and there's not much anyone can do about it, at least within reasonable $$$. Now you know why Liberty was amused by my question of using one in “Jane”. :)

https://i.imgur.com/hcIhXwyh.jpg

They never, really, got rolling, as the owner took too long to build them 1 at a time. A friend of mine, with a '68 Chevelle 425 hp/383 got one several years ago and it had issues with clearance between 2 gears and kept taking out a roller bearing. I don't recall, exactly what the issue was, but he had it out and part 3 times and it took him many months to get parts for it and then he and another friend modified some of the pieces and tightened up end play and got it working good. For now. He knows if it breaks, there is no possibility of parts anymore and it will just be an expensive shelf ornament.
Last I heard about the owner, he wasn't going to sell the patents or designs for anyone else to build them and it is dead. Could be wrong about that and never say never, but it hasn't resurfaced in recent years. Jodie Haag doesn't have any mention of them on his website, nor does 5speed.com, other than attempting to get parts, maybe.

Many of these new manual transmissions have thin die-cast cases & tail housings. They try to rib them up but the strength is just not there compared to a thick-walled sand casting.

The better part of 800hp

Contact Jody Haag at Jody's Transmissions. He was building Super T 10s for drag racing. Maybe he can help.

I have been using a Clutch Tamer with the McLeod RXT clutch. The Clutch Tamer is probably why the M23 didn't break while racing.

BGH, Grant has been saying for years it's the clutch and it's engagement as usually why trans break. Big power, spinning at say 7000 RPMs, sticky track and slicks, Trans is fine driving around the pits. Now get to the line, dump it at that 7000 with a good still clutch, SOMETHING as to happen? Either car moves forward/UP, clutch clips, engine bogs or trans breaks?

Over clutch it with power can break the trans. This is partially why slipper clutches and CLUTCH TAMER were invented. How many years were Doug Nash 4+1 and Richmond 5 sps running with power and slicks? And I think the Nash were only rated at 450 lbs/ft of torque. BUT there you guys running them got years.

This is why I said to Napa, he's got some $$$ to do it right, so just go T56 and you get it rated @ 1000 lbs/ft and be done with it. Get some to "message" the tunnel to look OEM if needed.

When I had my 1988 5.0 convert GT Mustang, I went thru 11 T5's. NEVER at the track, always just on the street, usually playing a bit. Car was stock at the time, with 100 shot nitrous, long tube headers and McCreary "DIRT 60" tire. Ran 11.70's.

"BANGIN" Bob Hanlon from Hanlon Motorsports used to have a front plate conversion for the later Mustang 5 sp, I think they are 3650s, that you could put it behind a chevy and was good to about 500/550Hp. They were plentiful and cheap, so you could by 2 or 3 and swap them out WHEN they had issues.

With that much power, I'd go with a G Force 4 Speed. My buddy broke his M23 twice with a 700hp 496 and slicks and 4.56 gears, no clutch tamer.... My M23 has held up well at the track, but only has around 12 passes, I'm guessing my 496 has around 550hp. My M23 had to be repaired by Autogear twice under warranty because of quality control issues. If I was going to do this allover again, I probably would use something beefier.

Sounds like you cannot buy anything that is worth a chit anymore. Even when it's expensive

I agree with you. My M23 had issues with both 2nd and 3rd gear. The gears were not made correctly, they synchro rings didn't mesh with the gear properly. The ramp angle on the gear cone were not exactly parallel with the synchro ring which wouldn't allow it to shift into the next gear (2nd or 3rd) above 4,0000rpm... After replacing the gears, it's worked flawlessly. I had a close ratio Autogear M22 in the past which was the nicest shifting 4 speed I've ever felt but I never raced it with slicks.

This might be coming down to, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and just leave the TH400. OR, remove some of the bite from the beast so you aren't breaking manual transmissions ... :hmmm: