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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know that at the St. Louis Assembly plant the special order paint was prepared in small pressure pots and hand trucked to the paint line. It would be pure coincidence if the small batch matched any color chip. Does someone actually think that the <span style="text-decoration: underline">PRODUCTION</span> process included spraying test panels, running them through the oven, & checking them against paint chips? </div></div>
Corvette or truck? If the Corvette front clip was painted along with the body then it certainly was less critical. But in any instance where the front end was painted remotely (like trucks) they had to match the chip. In Flint the cabs were painted at one end of the facility and front end sheet metal at the other end (and on a separate floor). Buicks bodies were built on the north side of Flint and trucked to the south side of Flint (on open carriers) for final assembly. There had to be a common verifiable standard. The production process absolutely includes matching to chips. When we installed the Behr turbine bell system in Flint the electrostatic charge in the body took all of the metal flake particles and aligned them in a uniform pattern, changing the final effect. We had to reinstall reciprocating traditional spray guns to spray metallic paints so that they would match the chip (which wasn't an inexpensive undertaking). K |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
when the car arrived at grabiak chevy I would have known the difference between EO and silver. my wife worked there and was there when the car rolled off of the truck. there were people on the other website that said the dealer painted the car EO when it was delivered in silver. I hope people this stupid are not allowed vote in our elections.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
The best of experts have been prone to errors. For instance, the so called L-89 Nova was inspected by a team of “experts” and though they never admitted that they may have been mislead, seems to be the case.
At times you have to weigh the facts, use common sense and see where that leads you. In this case, appears to have been a factory EO car. Regardless, a very unique car/color. |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
the problem here is they can not afford to have some dumb hunky from a coal mining town in Pa be correct.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Hey Clem, Not that it matters, but from a former Pittsburgher (South Hills - Baldwin/Whitehall/South Park) guy, I believe you.
Do you happen to have any old cars now? |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
as the original owner I installed that air cleaner setup as I did also with my 68 Z/28. I did not like the looks of the cold air hood. I knew that for every 10 degrees you lower the inlet air temp you pick up 1% in HP. I ran this setup on all my high performance cars
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Mark,no I was into new corvettes but my wife passed away in jan. so I canceled my 2015 corvette order as it would be no fun without her riding next to me. we left on our honeymoon in a brand new 1959 corvette and had 10 since then. the Z/28 camaros were bought because we had children and we needed more seats.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Ugh, sorry for your loss.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Jesus Christ that's an absolutely stunning looking car.How was it received by your local car cliques back then?
I believe it came EO,but for any doubters,are there any locals from your past who can vouch for that color as well?....Who could forget that color. |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Yes....we'd love your input and stories....in sharing anything and everything you can......
Of your many performance cars, Clem.Do you have any pics, 8 mm home movies, paper work, order forms, service records, parts invoices, window stickers......related to any of them ? I'm also from Western Pa and have travelled past Grabiak Too many times to count on my way to Keystone Raceway/Pgh Raceway Park. Now living in Irwin. Which is only a few miles/minutes away....I've seen the transformation of Grabiak back to a Performance Store with Corvettes and especially since 2010 with the Camaro. Since the age of 14,,,, '72-'73 - on into my early 30's we would stop at Grabiak and look at the HP cars and visit Joe at the Corvette Center. I don't have any pics....just fuzzy memories ...., |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
... Clem, Welcome to the site. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] That is a beautiful car and a great restoration. .... and especially neat that you had it special ordered for your wife .... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Day2_69Z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes....we'd love your input and stories....in sharing anything and everything you can......
Of your many performance cars, Clem.Do you have any pics, 8 mm home movies, paper work, order forms, service records, parts invoices, window stickers......related to any of them ? I'm also from Western Pa and have travelled past Grabiak Too many times to count on my way to Keystone Raceway/Pgh Raceway Park. Now living in Irwin. Which is only a few miles/minutes away....I've seen the transformation of Grabiak back to a Performance Store with Corvettes and especially since 2010 with the Camaro. Since the age of 14,,,, '72-'73 - on into my early 30's we would stop at Grabiak and look at the HP cars and visit Joe at the Corvette Center. I don't have any pics....just fuzzy memories ...., </div></div>I sold all the paperwork for my corvettes to a collector and the fellow who has my 1970 450HP 454 chevelle also got the paper work. mrs. clem saved all that paperwork as she like to collect things. I have some pictures around here but I have no idea where they are locate. my sons race car from back in the 90s |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
"but for any doubters"..........Its only natural that youre going to get doubters when you are wanting 3 times what a car would be worth if it wasn't for the color.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"but for any doubters"..........Its only natural that youre going to get doubters when you are wanting 3 times what a car would be worth if it wasn't for the color. </div></div>
Reply of the thread right there!, especially if the original owner or Brad (the restorer) or whoever else has a stake in the car seems to want 200k or better for this machine. For such a special car there should have been a lot of fanfare, ......i.e. Polaroid and Kodak Instamatic with FlashCube pics somewhere. Bows ribbons, champagne, hot dogs etc......LOL. But at the very least a sale contract with THAT color listed on it beside special paint. We, as hobbyists, want to believe in this Omega, but at 200k anyone would be a fool to pay that without it being in STONE that it came that color from the factory If it were mine, with this cloud of doubt around it, I would have taken the 160k it bid to and ran to the bank |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
I co-op'd out of St Louis, so it was all 3 lines (trucks, full size, & Corvettes). My only experience actually painting was at Corvette though, where the panels were still sprayed manually & then re-flowed (thank God!). Keith - I'm sure that you are stating facts, but half of the time standard colors didn't exactly match paint chips - there was some variance over time.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: watk69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"but for any doubters"..........Its only natural that youre going to get doubters when you are wanting 3 times what a car would be worth if it wasn't for the color. </div></div>
Reply of the thread right there!, especially if the original owner or Brad (the restorer) or whoever else has a stake in the car seems to want 200k or better for this machine. For such a special car there should have been a lot of fanfare, ......i.e. Polaroid and Kodak Instamatic with FlashCube pics somewhere. Bows ribbons, champagne, hot dogs etc......LOL. But at the very least a sale contract with THAT color listed on it beside special paint. We, as hobbyists, want to believe in this Omega, but at 200k anyone would be a fool to pay that without it being in STONE that it came that color from the factory If it were mine, with this cloud of doubt around it, I would have taken the 160k it bid to and ran to the bank </div></div>I had at least 6 new cars,corvettes and trucks painted non standard colors and it was just a way to be different,nothing special back then. the Z/28 had the grill painted flat black and the rear panel and spoiler face was also painted black with a textured vinyl top paint. my way of personalizing my car |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Why was this car inspected in the first place?. The original owner has confirmed the colour. The trim tag and dealer invoices are there. The stampings are legitimate. Yes,its an early car. Yes, I wasn't one of the detectives that inspected the car. That car is unique.I too have a -- paint car and my canadian gm docs list a 1001pa special color.The original owner confirmed the color to me as purple the original luovers from the fenders still have born with paint.I paid no attention to what some of the detectives had to say.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"></div></div>
I co-op'd out of St Louis, so it was all 3 lines (trucks, full size, & Corvettes). My only experience actually painting was at Corvette though, where the panels were still sprayed manually & then re-flowed (thank God!). Keith - I'm sure that you are stating facts, but half of the time standard colors didn't exactly match paint chips - there was some variance over time. </div></div>my 62 corvette was painted from the st louis factory anniversary gold and my 65 396 was a factory delivery on april 16 1965 |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marshall</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why was this car inspected in the first place?. The original owner has confirmed the colour. The trim tag and dealer invoices are there. The stampings are legitimate. Yes,its an early car. Yes, I wasn't one of the detectives that inspected the car. That car is unique.I too have a -- paint car and my canadian gm docs list a 1001pa special color.The original owner confirmed the color to me as purple the original luovers from the fenders still have born with paint.I paid no attention to what some of the detectives had to say. </div></div>the restorer found me thru the internet after the inspection by the experts. I had put the VIN numbers of my 68 and 69 Z/28 on the Camaro website and posted I had the paper work. he put the VIN in goggle and my name came up
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cook_dw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can you put the chip of EO and cortez silver against the roof without the white borders??? id be interested to see the difference then. Looks like the pics of the car now are under fluorescent lights... any pics of the car now in outdoor lighting??? </div></div>
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...psnyx7s0ct.jpg <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW... Norwood Chevrolet side inspectors used paint chips to accept bodies from Fisher Body. Paint in smaller batches at Fisher Body was also hand measured and tinted by eye to a match with a chip. </div></div> "What a joke.." Everyone knows these were cookie cutter and built by machines..!!.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif[/img] </div></div> Thanks.... case closed in my opinion... |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"but for any doubters"..........Its only natural that youre going to get doubters when you are wanting 3 times what a car would be worth if it wasn't for the color. </div></div>
Please correct me if I am wrong but I do not think Clem has any financial stake in the sale of the car. He has not owned the car since the 1970's... |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: watk69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"but for any doubters"..........Its only natural that youre going to get doubters when you are wanting 3 times what a car would be worth if it wasn't for the color. </div></div>
Reply of the thread right there!, especially if the original owner or Brad (the restorer) or whoever else has a stake in the car seems to want 200k or better for this machine. For such a special car there should have been a lot of fanfare, ......i.e. Polaroid and Kodak Instamatic with FlashCube pics somewhere. Bows ribbons, champagne, hot dogs etc......LOL. But at the very least a sale contract with THAT color listed on it beside special paint. We, as hobbyists, want to believe in this Omega, but at 200k anyone would be a fool to pay that without it being in STONE that it came that color from the factory If it were mine, with this cloud of doubt around it, I would have taken the 160k it bid to and ran to the bank </div></div> really???????? I had over 200 early Camaros in the 80's and 90's... I have very very few pics of any of them... that was not the digital age.....Did you expect a ticker tape parade back then when the car was delivered???? How about a visit from the Pope ?? If someone orders a special color Camaro in 2015 how much fanfare would there be??? I find it hard to believe the selling dealer would fabricate such a story and put it in writing. |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: watk69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"but for any doubters"..........Its only natural that youre going to get doubters when you are wanting 3 times what a car would be worth if it wasn't for the color. </div></div>
Reply of the thread right there!, especially if the original owner or Brad (the restorer) or whoever else has a stake in the car seems to want 200k or better for this machine. For such a special car there should have been a lot of fanfare, ......i.e. Polaroid and Kodak Instamatic with FlashCube pics somewhere. Bows ribbons, champagne, hot dogs etc......LOL. But at the very least a sale contract with THAT color listed on it beside special paint. We, as hobbyists, want to believe in this Omega, but at 200k anyone would be a fool to pay that without it being in STONE that it came that color from the factory If it were mine, with this cloud of doubt around it, I would have taken the 160k it bid to and ran to the bank </div></div> really???????? I had over 200 early Camaros in the 80's and 90's... I have very very few pics of any of them... that was not the digital age.....Did you expect a ticker tape parade back then when the car was delivered???? How about a visit from the Pope ?? If someone orders a special color Camaro in 2015 how much fanfare would there be??? I find it hard to believe the selling dealer would fabricate such a story and put it in writing. </div></div> I was being facetious, but sheepishly admit I took hundreds of pics of my 78 Camaro with an anemic 305, because it was my first new car I bought and paid for on my own Just saying if there was an order or sale contract from when the car was purchased that said what color the special paint was, everyone would shut up, its the 150k question |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Welcome Clem
Ron Starry |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
I think we have said about all that can be said. I'm not sure even if the color was spelled out on the paperwork that it would bring more money that a equally restored Z of a different color. I love the color and would love to own it but at nowhere near the asking price. First thing I would do would be remove some of the stupid "happy marks" on the car that every auction restorer seems to think will make more valuable.
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
probably time to agree to disagree...
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: watk69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: watk69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=the427king]"but for any doubters"..........Its only natural that youre going to get doubters when you are wanting 3 times what a car would be worth if it wasn't for the color. </div></div>
Reply of the thread right there!, especially if the original owner or Brad (the restorer) or whoever else has a stake in the car seems to want 200k or better for this machine. For such a special car there should have been a lot of fanfare, ......i.e. Polaroid and Kodak Instamatic with FlashCube pics somewhere. Bows ribbons, champagne, hot dogs etc......LOL. But at the very least a sale contract with THAT color listed on it beside special paint. We, as hobbyists, want to believe in this Omega, but at 200k anyone would be a fool to pay that without it being in STONE that it came that color from the factory If it were mine, with this cloud of doubt around it, I would have taken the 160k it bid to and ran to the bank [/qu really???????? I had over 200 early Camaros in the 80's and 90's... I have very very few pics of any of them... that was not the digital age.....Did you expect a ticker tape parade back then when the car was delivered???? How about a visit from the Pope ?? If someone orders a special color Camaro in 2015 how much fanfare would there be??? I find it hard to believe the selling dealer would fabricate such a story and put it in writing. </div></div> I was being facetious, but sheepishly admit I took hundreds of pics of my 78 Camaro with an anemic 305, because it was my first new car I bought and paid for on my own Just saying if there was an order or sale contract from when the car was purchased that said what color the special paint was, everyone would shut up, its the 150k question </div></div> I hear ya.... I still think there may be someone else out there that knew this car when new... BTW... I postedrecently aout a triple black stripe delete 69 L-78 w paperwork... that car did have the color in the paperwork I believe... hmmmmmm |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
what did the Carolina blue w white stripe Z sell for??? I think it bid way more than 200k...if I recall
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
450k and the Bid Goes On. The description of that car was laughable as well........."thieves relieved of its factory trunk supplied cross ram and 8 track at a railyard" "Unrestored and Original except for one repaint" [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif[/img]
The stories people come up with to sell a car Carolin Blue Z |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Also said the JL8s were stolen on train. That's funny
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
All I know is I locked my keys in the trunk and a master locksmith said "you're screwed" after 2 hours trying to pick it at the Nationals this year. Glad he had a master set of ignition keys to fire it off until I got back home where the spare set was. Those 6 pin locks for the trunk are darn near pick proof
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
I know of two gentlemen that knew of this car when it was new and it was EO.
Ron Starry |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
Vintage pic posted does not support EO. And apparently the order does not clearly specify color.
Do those two people have pics? |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
What JL8.....?
That hideous bull shit ridden. Blue car was never a JL8..... We underestimated the value of bragging with egocentric ,eccentric, obnoxious arrogance combined with money that makes anything real to story tellers........better yet, they believe it them selves after they hear it or read it elsewhere.. I can say something about 2 cars JM recently certified as real .......that never were ......a few years before he saw them.....and owned by the same kinda personality I stated above........ But I'll keep my mouth shut and not buy into "uneducated , guru worshippers". Claims of , but he said so.....it must be real |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
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This has become the biggest color debate since . . . well, you know:
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Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
CarsEdit
In 1968, Mary Kay Ash purchased the first pink Cadillac from a Dallas dealership, where it was repainted on site to match the "Mountain Laurel Blush" in a compact Ash carried. The Cadillac served as a mobile advertisement for the business. The following year, Ash rewarded the company's top five salespeople with similarly painted 1970 Coupe de Ville cars. GM has painted over 100,000 custom cars for Mary Kay. The specific shade has varied over the years from bubble-gum to near-white pearlescent effects. GM had an exclusive agreement to sell cars of the specific shade only through Mary Kay. The cars are offered to distributors as two-year leases, and distributors who choose to buy the cars are only allowed to resell them to authorized dealers. After the lease expires, the cars are repainted before being resold. |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
[quote=watk69]This is the primer on some hidden areas on the famous survivor that has been discussed for quite some time.
Hugger Survivor http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...e%20primer.jpg ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++ The post quoted above from earlier in the thread seemed to be overlooked or maybe misunderstood. The pics show some areas of primer that has a "purplish" tint to it. This is on a Hugger Orange 69 Z28 survivor with 21,000+ miles. Full coverage paint on the body is completely different. Now, back to the car in question. I would not expected to see full body color on the areas that are covered up by the door panels or on the top of the car. Remember, when it was painted, they knew it was going to get a black vinyl top. What I would expect to see is primer and some overspray on those areas. Full color coverage paint on the body would be different, as in the case of the Hugger Orange car. In my opinion, there is no way to say that the color was EO based on what was found under the door panels or under the vinyl top. Those areas likely did not get FULL paint coverage like the outside of the body did. The 1969 GM color Flamingo Silver (Olds) / Sunset Silver (Buick) - is not the same as EO. |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcmiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=watk69]This is the primer on some hidden areas on the famous survivor that has been discussed for quite some time.
Hugger Survivor http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...e%20primer.jpg ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++ The post quoted above from earlier in the thread seemed to be overlooked or maybe misunderstood. The pics show some areas of primer that has a "purplish" tint to it. This is on a Hugger Orange 69 Z28 survivor with 21,000+ miles. Full coverage paint on the body is completely different. Now, back to the car in question. I would not expected to see full body color on the areas that are covered up by the door panels or on the top of the car. Remember, when it was painted, they knew it was going to get a black vinyl top. What I would expect to see is primer and some overspray on those areas. Full color coverage paint on the body would be different, as in the case of the Hugger Orange car. In my opinion, there is no way to say that the color was EO based on what was found under the door panels or under the vinyl top. Those areas likely did not get FULL paint coverage like the outside of the body did. The 1969 GM color Flamingo Silver (Olds) / Sunset Silver (Buick) - is not the same as EO. </div></div> Thank God there are cars out there like the Hugger Orange Survivor to keep us sane, and differentiate real from fantasy or bad recollection. Cars like this truly are worth their weight in gold to the hobby. The car that is the subject of this 16 page plus thread may be just as the original owner states it is, but still glad we have survivors to draw reference from. The hugger orange car should be renamed "The Truth" and in my mind one of the most valuable 69 Camaros ever. Wish I owned it |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
So we have a ringer photo introduced to the forum here that is not from the car under discussion.
Well planned gentlemen.... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/bs.gif[/img] Car is still EO. The lengths that a group will reach to to extract itself from a loosing debate is amazing to me. |
Re: 1969 Camaro Z/28 w/Special Order Paint
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...psmlosfy5i.jpg
Same car from different angle... |
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