Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Kind of bummed that I won't get to sell you a set of Polyglas for Gramma's car, but I have to admit the car looks great!!! Keep the kids in it!!! Maybe I can convince my wife that I need to get another car so that I can have my son help build the motor!!!!

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Finally got the speedometer working accurately. The car originally had a 2.56 rear gear ratio and I guessed and put in a blue 43 tooth driven gear years ago when I did the 3.42 rear swap. That never helped much.

It turned out that the trans had an 18 tooth green drive gear which makes it impossible to get a driven gear with enough teeth to slow down the speedo. They dont make a 49 tooth driven gear. So I ended up getting a 15 tooth grey drive gear and a yellow 41 tooth driven gear and the speedo now reads exactly right.

So with 20 years of the wrong gear, the 79,000 on the odometer is probably 69,000 actual miles. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Celebrated the first day of Spring with a nice drive in Gramma's car. I let my daughter drive the car a little, too. She drives like a gramma: slow, both hands on the wheel, head on a swivel. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

We now officially have 1,000 miles on my son's engine rebuild. The car runs great, though he has a few years before he gets to drive anything other than a lawnmower, (which is what his sister learned how to drive on).

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC10301.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/SDC10300.jpg

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

This is one of the things I am looking forward to! I cannot wait to have my son help me out on building a car!!! Enjoy this for all it is worth!!

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

You should upload more picture and show us some update [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Looks like Gramma's car is being reunited with my Grandpa'a car....

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Here's is Grampa's car's story:

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthrea..._a_L#Post539151

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

I'm getting itchy and I need a new project to work on with the boy. (Gotta drag him away from the x-box)

I have been thinking about finding a 455 short block to rebuild and then bolt on the 6X-4 heads and top end parts from the freshly rebuilt, original 350 on it. The 6X-4 heads that came with the 350 are the trick set up for a nice, torquemonster 455.

I already had Cliff Ruggles do the 1972 Quadrajet and Rocky Rotella set up the distributor. The 350 with its (barely 160 horsepower) is just too lame.

I'd throw on a set of the D-port ram air exhaust manifolds and have some fun.

Anyone have a lead on a nice 455 shortblock that needs rebuilding? (the cheaper the better)?

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Great theme ,,,,,,,
Way BETTER STORY of the Kids..... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif[/img] [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif[/img]

A 25-35 horsepower
Lawn tractor ????
N02 ?

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Well, I found a nice block here in NJ on craigslist. It's allegedly out of 1971 GTO convertible that some guy swapped an LS engine into. He traded the 455 engine for the LS engine but left the 455 at the machine shop for six years so not much of the engine was left at the shop as you would expect if you abandoned your engine somewhere for 6 years - just the block and some misc pieces remained.

The block was bored .030 over. The current bore is 4.180. Looks like it may have been bored and then used as a door stop at the machine shop for half a decade.

It's a 1971 YC (455/325 horse D-port) engine with two-bolt main caps. Maybe...

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...e/IMG_1243.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...e/IMG_1252.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...e/IMG_1251.jpg

It's got a casting date of F050 (June 5, 1970) with a &quot;70&quot; cast on the back of the 9799140 block. Is it a late 1970 cast block from an early 71 455/325 horse car? or it is a late 1970 455/360 horse engine that was the one year only 455HO high compression engine? Feel free to chime in with more info if you have it. It seems to be a weird code/year from what I see on various websites and I don't seem to be the first person to run into this conundrum.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...e/IMG_1250.jpg

The partial VIN looks like 221302638

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...IMG_1246_1.jpg

I spent the afternoon chasing every bolt hole and then scrubbing the thing down and finally power washing the cobwebs out. I then used a scotch bright on the cylinders and oiled them down once everything dried out.

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The partial VIN looks like 221302638
</div></div>

Wouldn't that be a '72 Vin...and an Oshawa car?
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img]
~ Pete

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

The seller also had some other parts that were from that car. A E211 dated (May 21st) 1971 intake and 7041262 dated 68th day of 1971 455 carb.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...e/IMG_1257.jpg

The intake is weird because it is a 1971 481733 casting number but has the unique rectangular 1972 choke pull that runs parallel to the carb and not perpendicular.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...e/IMG_1253.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...e/IMG_1255.jpg

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PeteLeathersac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The partial VIN looks like 221302638
</div></div>

Wouldn't that be a '72 Vin...and an Oshawa car?
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif[/img]
~ Pete

</div></div>

Here's a better shot of the vin:

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...g_1246_vin.jpg

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

I found a standard dimension, original 455 crankshaft 25 miles from my house! I posted a wanted listing on the Performance Years site and someone just over the border in PA answered. It is a 1970 nodular iron casting and was just as rusty as the block I found last week. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img]

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...2-img_1276.jpg


So I bought four gallons of Evapo-Rust from advanceautoparts (using their $25 off $70 purchase coupon) and made a makeshift bathtub from a crankshaft box and heavy duty layers of plastic sheeting. If you're wondering, I also put a few beer bottles in to raise the liquid level up to completely cover the crank.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...3-img_1278.jpg

The stuff works amazingly well in the hot sun. Within seconds the rust disappeared. I let it soak for about an hour, turning it and wiping the journals every 10 minutes or so, to get the residue off so the liquid could work faster.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...4-img_1280.jpg

Here's the final result after drying it off and spraying it with oil.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...5-img_1282.jpg

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

OK, not really beer. It was Mike's Hard Lemonade. The wife drinks the stuff.

(and yes, I washed the bottles off before I put them back in the fridge)

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Wow, an amazing transformation. Nice work [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Nice.. I love watching engine builds.. Will be watching this one.. Love the 75 too btw.. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Thanks for the moral support! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

I decided to &quot;blueprint&quot; the oil pump today. Not much to it other than verifying that there is no crap inside the casting.

I'm glad I took a look. This is a brand-new Melling M54DS oil pump. Inside, all of the machined surfaces were incredibly sharp and I found tiny metal burrs and little shards that were just sitting there, waiting to get pumped in to engine. NEVER trust a new pump without looking inside it first.

Here is the housing once I pulled the gears out. See how sharp the edges are?

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...3-img_1284.jpg

Now take a closer look and you can see a metal splinter leftover from the machining process that was under the gear, as well as burrs on the edges of the machined passages.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...img_1285_a.jpg


I spent a while with a Dremel tool and some fine sandpaper smoothing all the internal edges. I also used a 1/2&quot; drill bit to open up the feed hole that mounts to the block to it's correct 1/2&quot; size. It was rough cast from two halves and they were not matched up correctly. I then washed and scrubbed and brushed the housing out in hot water and soap.

Here is the housing after the edges were smoothed and before washing:

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...img_1289_a.jpg


And the final pump reassembled. I packed it with grease so it will prime instantly when the times comes.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...8-img_1291.jpg

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Update from the machinist: He examined the crank and said I could run the crank &quot;as is&quot; but if it was his engine he'd cut it .010/.010 just to make it perfect. So that's what we're gonna do. We should know about the block dimensions tomorrow.

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Got the block update this morning. It needs a little cleaning up of the .030 bore, so it will be bored to .040. The machinist said, &quot;yeah you could leave it at the existing .030, hone it, and slap it together, but if it was mine I'd make it perfect at .040 and start from there.&quot;

Since I have to order a set of forged pistons anyway, I went for the .040 (same price as the .030).

$312 for http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-l2359nf40

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Love to see your progress. I will be going through a low-mile 0.030-over 455 short block and 6X-8 heads very soon.

Which begs the question...what will your CR be with the 6X-4 heads?

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

With the 6X-4 heads off a 350, around 9.5 to 9.75 to 1. They are the 93 cc heads but have been cleaned up to get them flat. The block will be surfaced flat as well. So it should make them a wee bit smaller. I will CC the heads once I get them off the 350 in the car now where they currently have 7.5 to 1 compression. (BTW, the 6x-8 heads off of a 400 are 100 cc)

Here is the chart info from the pistons

Pontiac 455 L2359NF

72cc = 11.5 1 to 1

87cc = 10.01 to 1

96cc = 9.3 to 1

111cc = 8.34 to 1

114cc = 8.17 to 1

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Thanks! I'm using the same pistons. I keep hearing about Pontiacs being detonation sensitive so I was leaning toward a 9.1 CR...what do you think?

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

The detonation is really a function of camshaft centerline in these cars. You need a wide centerline on a big Pontiac to avoid detonation and get the most power. That was the nightmare of the engine in my black '72 455HO. Back in the 1970's an &quot;expert&quot; engine builder slapped in some domed pistons (which Pontiacs don't take kindly to) and a crappy cam choice. The thing would detonate under any load, even with the timing backed off 20 degrees! It had around 11.5 to 1 compression. When I did a compression check it showed 225 PSI!!!

A lot of guys swear by the Summit Racing 2802 cam (if they are not going the rollercam route). And you can't beat the price! That is what is going into this motor. - The Melling SPC7 reproduction RAIII/455HO 068 cam I had just installed in the 350 is too mild for the 455 with these heads. So I guess I'll save that for the next project.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-2802

There are some very informative discussions on cams on the PY site by some of the better engine builders. Here's one:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=775018

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

That is a great cam choice. I would run the almost same specs in a mild sbc but I would tighten up the LSA to 112.. Also impressed by how great the crank turned out.. Gotta love Evaporust.. Any time a new engine is being built and before the oil pump goes on I always pull them apart.. Something inside of me makes me not want to trust a machined part like that to go in an engine without inspection.. Excellent work! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Thanks, great advice! I am going for a relatively tame street engine so the Summit cam may be a good choice.

What are your plans for the heads - valve size, porting, etc?

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

The heads were just done 1,500 miles ago, when we rebuilt the 350, so they are getting bolted onto the 455 short-block as is.

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

I may do some basic port cleanup to the 6X-8 heads I have here on the shelf. I believe these have the larger valves factory installed, so I hope it runs well.

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Look what showed up today! Oooooh shiny new parts!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...6-img_1304.jpg

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Nice..

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Stopped by the shop to drop off the pistons and rings. The block has been bored and is awaiting the final honing to size.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...1-img_1315.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...0-img_1313.jpg

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Just curious do they use a torque plate on boring and honing?

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

It's an old time shop - lots of experience. They do use torque plates for the Chevies but he says from his experience that there is no measurable distortion with Pontiac blocks when bored with a plate or without one. He indicated that it has to do with head bolt location in proximity to the bore walls. He said that the 400 small block Chevies were the worst for bore distortion due to the siamese bore walls and the close head bolt locations.

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Interesting.. Did not take that into consideration..

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Rods are refinished and awaiting the crank to come back from cutting. Then the reciprocating assembly goes for balancing.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-img_1320a.jpg


And the block is finished and home:

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...6-img_1323.jpg

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Here's something interesting. There are stamped letters next to the bores. Are these for selective fit piston assemblies? &quot;S&quot;, &quot;M&quot;, and &quot;L&quot; for small, medium, and large? The 1975 350 block in Gramma's car had similar stampings on the deck surface as well, only they were the letter &quot;P&quot; next to each bore. The machinist said he has seen these on other Pontiac blocks over the years.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...7-img_1324.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...8-img_1325.jpg

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...9-img_1327.jpg

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Cool, like Olds Select Fit!

Ryan

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

One of the guys over at PY just responded with this chart for selective fit pistons for 1970 and 1971 Pontiacs. Looks like I was right!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...istonsizes.jpg

Re: Gramma's Car: the new project!
 

Great info!!!