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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
.... because in '84 both RG cars were in the same general locale, and I wasn't sure if JIM was aware / or remembered the exact vin of the car in the barn with the cowl damage. Just trying to prevent the story of one RG car becoming morphed into the story of another RG car! Its just coincidence that there were two RG Yenko's in the same area at the same time.....
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
What is with the apparent "vendetta" against this car? Let the man do HIS research on HIS car. By reading his posts, Bergy seems to be an honest fellow on the hunt for the REAL history about a car that NO ONE ELSE had the cojones to purchase. Shouldn't a vehicle be innocent until PROVEN guilty? All anyone has about this car up until this point is stories, and no hard facts have been presented at all. Just let the man do his research and when he presents it to everyone, then have something to say about his evidence on the vehicle. No matter how the vehicle ends up (rebody or fixed original body) the car should be saved. It is a piece of Yenko history.
-Matt |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is with the apparent "vendetta" against this car? Let the man do HIS research on HIS car. By reading his posts, Bergy seems to be an honest fellow on the hunt for the REAL history about a car that NO ONE ELSE had the cojones to purchase. Shouldn't a vehicle be innocent until PROVEN guilty? All anyone has about this car up until this point is stories, and no hard facts have been presented at all. Just let the man do his research and when he presents it to everyone, then have something to say about his evidence on the vehicle. No matter how the vehicle ends up (rebody or fixed original body) the car should be saved. It is a piece of Yenko history.
-Matt </div></div> Take a step back Matt. All Marlin was doing was stating/clarifying for Jim, that there were two Yenko cars in the same general vicinity that were heavily damaged. He was seeking information from Jim that his statement about the RG yenko was tied to a specific VIN. No one stated that the car shouldn't be restored, however its pedigree is important. 90% of those that posted just want to find out what is original to the car. There is a lot of hearsay that could be cleared up with a fairly simple inspection of the car. That hasn't happened to date and we are all waiting. Researching the history of the car is important but more important is the physical integrity of the car since it has been confirmed there is a VIN discrepancy. Until the inspection is done I'm not sure what % of a Yenko you are saving and that is very important. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
I understand that everyone wants to know the truth of the vehicle and the questions surrounding it. Remember the rebody ZL1 Camaro that was sold recently at BJ? That sold at a decent amount, although, below the cost of a non rebody vehicle. The fact that it still sold in the $200,000 range says to me that people who can't afford a non rebody pedigree ZL1 would want the car based on the fact that it is affordable and they can still say they own a ZL1. If the car in question ends up being a rebody, I believe that this car can be viewed in the same respect. People who can't afford a pedigree documented Yenko will look at this car as a more affordable option and can still say that they own a Yenko vehicle, even with the rebody.
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
I have some pics of the car when we looked at in 2000, but I do not know how to post them. I maybe can send them to someone that knows how, if it matters or not. Concerning the last line of the above post, I have trouble with accepting a rebody as a Yenko. But thats me.
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
HALLELUJAH Tom! Please send them. I PM'd you, emailed you, will even come to your house! I will post anything that you send. Thanks, bergy
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
No vendetta, no alterior motive, no objection to saving / restoring the car, etc.... No need for anyone to assume any of that stuff.
If/when someone down the road were to post something about another RG Yenko Camaro with such a similar background, an owner would likely be happy to have cleared that confusion up right at the outset. Bergy can't get to the car right now for a teardown, so its a good time to clear up some of that stuff. Amazing that some folks take that negatively, why? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
However you slice and dice it, the car will always have a high amount of speculation attached to it. Even if, by chance the car has some of the original body left, how would you prove it? Green paint? I don't think so. Even with green paint it's not difinitive. Look for the dual exhaust hanger, is it there? What about the rivets for the dash vin? Are they original? If the car was for sale in an envelope why would the original vin be reattached to the original body? If the car was hit hard enough to destroy the firewall I would find it hard to believe that the rest of the body wouldn't be severly damaged. Enough speculation. If the car is NOT a rebody, the burden of proof is on Bergy. Every sign thus far points to the car absolutely being a rebody.
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
You guys need to lighten up. I don't recall Bregy trying to sell you a 1 of 1 Yenko. As a matter of fact, Bregy recently bought the car. Let him enjoy it. We are all into these cars because we enjoy them. If you feel that you must beat someone down about something, get into politics. We all know there are some there that need a beatdown. Just a hunch, I think Bergy's car is a Yenko. Why in the world would someone rebody a Yenko then hide it under Z28 badges? My theory is that someone bought a wrecked Camaro not knowing it was a Yenko and repaired it and made a Z28 clone. If I were going to rebody a Yenko, it would have SYC headrests, body stripes and a 427.
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Marlin's right on trying to clarify what's known now while waiting for Bergy to investigate and report back including bringing the other RG car to light!.
No doubt what's found effects value but kudos to Bergy for presenting his car up front here also investigating in the open!. Was the Vin tag ever really in an envelope or perhaps only offered as such but never actually removed?. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] ~ Pete |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
I would imagine that is what happened too. The car was parted out years ago per Jim's story and the car was put out to pasture. As time went on, the condition of a car worth saving changed, more parts became available, and this car was rebuilt. It will be interesting to see where the firewall was sectioned if this scenario is true.
Jason |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
It has nothing to do with beating Bergy down or his car. It has everything to do with making sure that this car is acurately noted. At some point, this car will come up for sale and I would hate for anyone get taken on a car with issues. IMO, without the original firewall, the car is a rebody and should be noted as such. Im not sure what anyone could do to make the car more than that unless someone was up to funny business. The heart of the car is gone, thats a fact.
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
I sent Bergy pics from 2000. Whether they help or not who knows. I sent them to him because if it were me with that car right now, I would want all the info I could get also. Now, FWIW, my story from 2000 briefly: Seller wanted $6200. VIN tag was on the car with incorrect rivets and rivets put in from the wrong direction IIRC. A check of the cowl VIN revealed the other VIN. That was enough for us. We were not going to spend $6200 for a Yenko VIN plate put on a different body. Without checking further for other confidential VINS, we stopped right there. The numbers behind the heater box were not checked by us. Now that I look at the picture, there is a broad seam with what looks like seam sealer above the heater box. You guys look at it and let us know if that is a factory seam. Is it still there? Is it factory? Was something put in at that location? Who knows. Was the heater box confidential VIN ever checked? Does it match the cowl VIN? Any evidence of firewall sheetmetal work? I hope all works out well for Bergy.
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
There should be a seam-sealed area above the heater box from the factory, that is where the three metal parts come together. Without seeing the pics, are you saying there is a second seam sealed line above the heater box?
BTW, was the car in Pine Grove, PA when you looked at it? |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
There are 6 more photos that Tom sent. They are just exterior car shots though. These are he ones that I thougtht everyone might want to see. Thanks for your help Tom!!! Bergy
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
the seam above the heater box looks factory to me. very dificult to reproduce that brushed look in the seam sealer. good luck with your research bergy!
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Yes, Pine Grove. I was talking about 1 seam sealed area. Check out the pic.
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Marln - do your records go back before Pottsville?
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Let's see the 6 exterior shots too...
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
No, my last owner of record was in Pottsville.
Agreed on the seam seal - that looks factory to me as well. That car has to come apart to really learn something, these pics don't really tell us much. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Any update on this?
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
He is in Fla.......for the winter?
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
I'd imagine he'd come home for a Yenko Camaro, [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img] not for the whole PA Winter, but....
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
I know he is enjoying the weather right now! I am in Hiltonhead for the week and its in the upper 80s here.
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
I don't think I could have consciously kept that car for more than 24 hours after buying it before looking for the heater box #'s.
Incredible story so far. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 472 R/T SE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think I could have consciously kept that car for more than 24 hours after buying it before looking for the heater box #'s.
Incredible story so far. </div></div> I agree 100%. That car should have been disassembled inspected and photographed every which way from Sunday. Picture validating the car would/should have been posted immediately. Now all we can do is speculate as to why no proof has been disclosed. The question still remains. Does what remains of the original car fit in an envelop or ??? |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Let's take it easy here guys. People who are successful, as Bergy obviously seems to be given the iron in his garage, seldom get there by sitting on their behinds. They are busy, driven people who have business to tend to and when they don't their family is often demanding they spend some time with them. It's a balancing act. I don't think his first priority is (or should be) satisfying the curiosity of a bunch of gearheads like us on this site.
Let's chill and let the guy get to it. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
I think everyone is quite 'chillin' (aka 'patient'), as this thread is/has been very civil given the topic / claim. I think Bergy has been given ample 'benefit of doubt', as well as 'understanding' regarding his current out of state status.
The underlying urgency is that this car suddenly has a story that is being proposed in order to support that there is more 'YENKO' existing than just the presumed VIN tag and a title. So far, it looks like we have a sway bar and a dash cluster - we've seen this before (I think an OG Yenko in WI gave up similar items). So, as fellow enthusiasts - its quite interesting and a bit more than curious! The logging truck accident is interesting, as is the crashed car in the barn.... gotta see the car though. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
The "story" of this car unfolded right here on this site in real time thanks to some great car people who contributed their input. The 1982 logging truck accident was supplied by me via sworn, first hand statement from the brother of the then owner. The many copo attributes of the car include more then just a sway bar and cluster (although those are important). I had no idea that all of these facts existed from the outset, and I was very conflicted about including the community in this experience. I even PMed Tom about a week before posting that I had acquired the car - asking for advice. I do appreciate the site and the helpful members of the community, so I decided to let everyone share in the experience. I'm old enough to know that there will always be skeptics. I also know that I will never be able to satisfy all of them, so I stopped trying long ago. I never would have purchased this car if I wasn't pretty certain that it was indeed the Yenko - fortunately, subsequent information (that I had no knowledge or control over) has done nothing but reinforce my belief.
The car is not going anywhere. When it gets disassembled, it needs to be fully documented. I'm sorry that it's not happening on the time table that some would prefer. I'll just point out that everyone in the world had an opportunity to buy it. The responsibility for timing and documentation of disassembly belongs to the person who stepped up. I'm not investing more resources into the physical car until it's in the place where it's going to get restored and I have the ownership documentation completed. I have seen enough to convince me, and there will never be enough to convince the severest skeptics. Ownership investigation is going pretty well, I have received 7 title transactions and I am assured that 3 to 5 more exist dating back to at least 1976. It's the last 3 to 5 that should tell rest of the story. The only other piece of new information is photos that I have received from a former owner (in addition to the ones from the member who inspected the car 10 years ago). They are not very revealing though. Again, while I'm in FL - I'm working on documentation. The results of this phase will determine timing of disassembly. Thanks to all who have supplied information - please feel free to post, PM, or email me with anything additional that you might have to contribute. Most owners probably would have completed this whole investigation phase before revealing anything to the community. I hope that most have enjoyed the experience so far, and I'm sorry for the frustration of others. I would estimate that the "file" on this car is in excess of 200 pages already - believe me, I haven't been sitting on my hands. As important facts are revealed - I'll be sure to post. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Inappropriate post
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Nova7579:
What are you putting BS signs up for? Bergy doesn't have to share anything about his car with us. He's being straight about what he's found. Let him do it at his pace. JMO, Ed |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
----Thank you Steve! You took the words right out of many of our mouths......Bill S |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Why do you persist? If you have information, share it. If not, give it up.
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
OK -
http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/o...wingrgdoor.jpg I did receive some additional photos in the mail from the body shop that last painted the car in 2003. They do insurance work and it is their practice to take "before" and "after" photos. I was grateful that one of their photos showed the original RG overspray on the pass door panel. It shocked me at first because that was the door that was damaged in the 1984 accident, but then I considered the fact that anyone talented and persistent enough to replace a cowl section could easily straighten and re-skin a door! The pic is grainy because it is a scan of a 2x4 inch picture printed on regular paper. The body man assures me that the RG shows up bright on his computer and he will email me the file. Also, I spoke to the body shop owner today and he suggested "why don't you speak to Dave XXXXXX, he owned your car for quite a while and knows everything about it". The manager was even nice enough to give Dave a call and let him know that I would be contacting him. Well, long story short, Dave did the resto of the car back in 1994 (his wife insisted that he paint it red) and volunteered the information that he personally (in his garage) stripped the original rally green paint from the car (doors back). He also gave me the details that the rpevious owner gave him about repairing the car in about 1985. Finally, I have spoken to the local Lancaster car guys about locating the engine, trans, and rear. They've been around here a long time - if the parts are riding around in the Lancaster area - they will find them. That's all I have for now. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Just to review - the car, under a cover, stored in my garage has the following copo attributes:
-pass side frame rail extension exh hanger reinforcement -orig single 3/8" fuel sender -orig single 3/8" fuel line -9204 booster dated for 03B car -PS with fast ratio PS arm -original PDB car -orig deep groove PS pully -orig 13/16 HD sway bar -HD 5 leaf springs -HD coil springs -orig RG overspray and sworn statement as to orig RG paint -orig spoiler car (F&R) -orig dash cluster with 140 speedo and holes for S&W tach. I'm sure that there will be lots more when it comes apart. Note, car #587974 (donor cowl) was a plain jane 327 2bbl that would not have had any of the above traits. |
Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
Please keep the information coming. I love reading when a car is found and it could be something very special. Not everyone has the nerve to step up and take a chance on a car that does not have a perfect history but I appreciate the story and you letting us share in your quest.
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
way to go bergy! keep up the good work. enjoy he warm weather
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Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
How do you know and make the claim that the dash gauge cluster is original?
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