Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

The ability to lease cars cheap has also put a lot of great used cars back on the market. Why buy new when you can own a low mile vehicle for half the cost?
At 54 I have yet to buy a new vehicle...and probably never will https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

If anyone would like to try a "non-skilled" job for a week, try it. It sucks. The company has made it so that there is little time between cars/trucks. It's not like it used to be when they could read a magazine between vehicles. The workers now are getting carpal tunnel at an early age because of the work they do!

As far as wages, the workers have been giving concessions for a couple of contracts now. Their insurance has gone up and coverage has gone down.

Check out and see how much Toyota puts back into the United States education. From what I was told GM puts a lot of money back into the education system and Toyota puts nothing back in!

If they don't get the money, it tells me that Wall Street is more important than Main Street. IMO https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

Well said!

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

Ya know the problem with these pensions is a lot of the old time pensions are actually owned by the company not the individual. I think the company can show the pension on the books as an asset. The problem is (US AIR, United Etc.) If the company goes down the pension goes with it not to the employees. So if this is the case with the BIG 3, the line guys etc better be careful they could end up with "0"

I dont have a pension, I've always had to save for my retirement and plan for the future. No retirement health care etc. but I think a guy signs up for a deal he should get that deal weather he's a line guy or a fat cat. But I also beleive in loyalty and doing the best job I can and taking my lumps if I screw up. I think part of the problem is there is no loyalty from the bottom to the top in this deal, it's every man for himself and it's been that way for a long time. I could be wrong, but from a guy looking in from the outside ..........

10/10 RS/Z28 The problem really a combination of things.

Most of the blame for all of this lies at the feet of the Government and the only was to solve this is term limits. The only incentive these guys have is to get re-elected, there greed is just as bad as everyone elses just a lot more dangerous.


Im not going to get political this is not the place but I think you know what I mean.

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

I am a laid off Chrysler employee, started at the Jeep plant in Toledo back in 2000.
I’ve seen both sides of the coin as my previous job of 17 years was in a non-union factory. Although there are several things I do not like about the union, I respect what they have done for everyone, including non-union employees.

1. Without the wages the union has negotiated, most non union employees would not make the wages they make. The non union employer has had to pay a decent wage to maintain decent employees.
2. Yes, there are some folks in auto plants that do little but the seniority has gotten them there and I‘ve seen those jobs in the non-union facilities as well. Seniority counts for something.
3. Most of the time, they talking about us maintenance folks. Here’s the fact on maintenance, if we’re working, then most likely the plant is not making vehicles and thereby losing major money. Maintenance is an evil necessity.
4. And let me tell you about the new assembly jobs at Jeep. I had to work one for a year and half to maintain a job. I lost 35 lbs in the first three months, I’m overweight but not that bad. I had to have a massage at least every two weeks; most everyone I know did the same. My hands hurt because of the torque guns and other jobs. If the line did not break down, out of a ten ½ hour day, we had 50 minutes off. DON”T tell me the people in an auto factory don’t earn their money.
5. As sc69sam mentioned about the pensions, a lot of money goes to retirees in the big three. The union agreed to take over the healthcare (yes, the big 3 are paying a good chunk of money for it) but when it is done, the big 3 will have some relief. BTW, it was reported that Toyota is now experiencing the same problem as the big 3 since they have been around long enough now that they are getting a good amount of retirees.
6. Workers there want their job and the mentality has changed to know quality means a job and most people feel that way. Problem is, we could only put on the parts we have and the arrogance of the salary folks is quite large.
7. It is true the big 3 pay scale is larger than the imports. There is still some truth that the unions try to create more jobs that needed. But then I’ve seen the same from the salary side, why I had three different maintenance supervisors on the same job, I’ll never know. It’s a fact that a union factory can cost almost 25% more to run than equivalent non-union factory. Too many non production union people (stewards, chief stewards, chairman, committeemen and appointed people) running around trying to justify their existence.
8. FYI, in the last contract, Sept. 2007, the union agreed to new employees starting wage of $14 and will increase to a max of $20 over a four or five year period. Also we took a wage freeze for the entire contract, 3 more years to go, we do get a yearly bonus.

Something else to think about, this is not just about the big 3. This is also about every manufacture that provides part to the auto industry. If the big 3 goes belly up, a lot of these folks do also and there will be many people collecting unemployment. Then after unemployment dries up, just imagine what will happen then. Did someone say depression?

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

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The UAW members have been paying into their own pension plan forever. That should not be taken away from them. I just don't think it's right to blame all of this on the workers. I live in Flint Michigan, birthplace of the UAW. Some of the workers have done NOTHING for years. I have said for years that GM needs to close the doors, lock them and start over. Tell the workers if you want a job, you will come to work every day, do an honest 8 hours work for 8 hours pay. No playing cards, sleeping, hanging out at the local tavern, no going home after 4 hours and having someone else punch you out, no doubleing up on jobs to get done in 2 hours, and lots more.

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We need to look at what the UNION representatives see before we jump here, please.

Would like to invite a UAW business representative to share what these members go through.

Their protection is for jobs, and when you continue to tool up more robotic systems, jobs disappear.

Question:
Do we know of any concessions negotiated to change what retirement contributions are in place, or what pension concessions considered or enacted?

Have they ever reduced the amount of what new hires receive; with less contract strength, coverage, health packages that the career workers are getting???

At the rate of layoffs and jobs lost, what is the percentage of $75.00 per hour workers left that are guaranteed that rate?

We really need to see the remaning numbers reflective to what the current contracts, regionally, gaurantee.

I can assume, that any US Federal Gov't. monetary assistance will include UNION contract restructuring!

Expect wage freezes... or other raise concessions,
in relationship with the current contract existing, to be considered, rewritten and/or forced if they are to continue as a UNION shop.

The UAW will continue to exist, but with a much different future job contract in place!
They will have to concede in order to save their JOBS!!!!

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

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BTW: isn't it *funny* that Congress cut a check to the banking industry for $750 BILLION without even so much as a whimper, and yet they're beating up the reps from the Big3 on Capitol Hill, talking about stipulations/strings attached/restructuring/etc, all over $25 billion?

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I noticed that too! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/mad.gif

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

[ QUOTE ]
BTW: isn't it *funny* that Congress cut a check to the banking industry for $750 BILLION without even so much as a whimper, and yet they're beating up the reps from the Big3 on Capitol Hill, talking about stipulations/strings attached/restructuring/etc, all over $25 billion?

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When Henry Paulson came begging to congress two months ago he said that the 700B was for buying up the bad debt ("restructuring") of Wall Street banks. Then the banks simply kept the money (and continued to pay dividends and cororate bonuses and compensation) and Paulson's response was that they had changed their minds about how to allocate the 700B. But wait a minute there Hank, that's not what you said the money was for and Paulson basically shrugged. Nope, not a peep out of anyone. Outrage? HA! Well, wait until January 21st 2009 and then the "outrage" will come.

The Big 3 just wants in on this massive government propping-up of our collapsing economy. It'll be the credit card companies soon and then the insurace companies and then the airlines and on and on it will go. This is what the government and the Treasury Department truly exists for: the bailing-out of big business when big business steers itself into the iceberg.

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

[ QUOTE ]
The Big 3 just wants in on this massive government propping-up of our collapsing economy. It'll be the credit card companies soon and then the insurace companies and then the airlines and on and on it will go. This is what the government and the Treasury Department truly exists for: the bailing-out of big business when big business steers itself into the iceberg.

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Yeah, but when will it trickle down to the resistance welder controls manufacturers? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Re: GM Facts and Fiction
 

NO insurance co. went under during the great depresion. No insurance co. will go under this time. We are regulated out the a$$.