Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

I'd take the fathom green one with the match engine for 600k any day of the week over non original for 850.
but, I also like green...and don't like yellow.

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

Well,

I guess I just got the opportunity to put my money where my mouth is!

I just bought this 69 COPO (chevelle) engine:

http://www.69lm1.com\pics\copoMP.jpg


To go into this:

http://www.69lm1.com\pics\X11.jpg

my original car from high school as found in a junkyard that I just bought and will be starting a restore on this winter!

Now I just need the tranny and rear!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Rich

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

What happened to the plug in the rh head?

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

Looks like paint over grime? It was picked up yesterday by one of my employees and will be here sometime tonight then I can make a proper assessment.

http://www.69lm1.com\pics\mpmotor.jpg

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like paint over grime?

[/ QUOTE ] Actually it normally protrudes from the head 1/8 of an inch or more. The fact it is recessed or ground means you should inspect the block a bit better before purchasing to ensure it wasnt alterted so the block could be stamped with the head still on. They also break alot,just might be a coincidence. Check the exhaust manifold side to make sure it isnt restamped, so hard to tell by the pic but it looks a bit smooth on one end of the pad

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

That´s the engine that was for sale at SCR9. The experts said it was a restamp.

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

Well,
It'll be here in a few hours, so I can get some better pics, so far a few respected people (based on the pics I had) said that it looked pretty good. I was told that it has been in central Texas for some time? Of course, as allways, won't know until I get it here and get some close ups to Jerry and Kurt!

Best of all, even if it is a just 512, I got it for a great price, if it is a real MP, then I got it for a smokin' deal.

What was the VIN on the 427 at SCR9 ?

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

[ QUOTE ]
Best of all, even if it is a just 512, I got it for a great price, if it is a real MP, then I got it for a smokin' deal.



[/ QUOTE ] You got it for a great price. It is nice to see you get away from the LM1s https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

looks like you will have to pop the head and confirm the faint broach as real or not. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

OK,
It just got here. I paid right around $6,000.00 for it, which if it is a real COPO is a smokin' deal, if it is just a restamp 427, then as a running motor, only .10 over, fully rebuilt and complete, than that is OK too.

It will probably be next week before I can pull the head, crusin the coast started today, and I am heading for Mississippi tomorrow. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

I guess we can start with is there anything that precludes this from being a Chevelle COPO motor (ie VIN vs dates, any other external clues?)

Cast 3963512 P
GM 4 HiPerf Conv

Cast Date C 11 9
A

Heads 840's C 27 9 and C 28 9

Suffix T0408MP

Vin 19K465533 (I think)

http://www.69lm1.com\427mp\ruler.jpg

http://www.69lm1.com\427mp\mpedge.jpg

http://www.69lm1.com\427mp\mpstamp.jpg

http://www.69lm1.com\427mp\castdate.jpg

http://www.69lm1.com\427mp\840.jpg

http://www.69lm1.com\427mp\oilfilter.jpg

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

[ QUOTE ]
You got it for a great price. It is nice to see you get away from the LM1s https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless I decide to put it in one https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Rich

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

[ QUOTE ]
No Kansas City built COPO's that I am aware of.

[/ QUOTE ] I dont know myself if this statement is true,but ive heard it many times before.

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

Vin 19K465533 (I think)
FWIW..That # <u>appears</u> as a July 1969 Leeds Chevelle release.

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

[ QUOTE ]
Vin 19K465533 (I think)
FWIW..That # <u>appears</u> as a July 1969 Leeds Chevelle release.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I know just a little less about chevells! What does that mean? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

It means I remember your engine being talked about on here recently.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat...true#Post228579

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

Thanks Rick,
A good read. So, if I read that correctly, it seems to be a legit L72 engine, just some guess work on weather the stamp is real or not. I wonder why no one pulled the head previously? In any case I will, and I will post some pics here as well when I resturn from the show.

Like I said, 6k for a real running L72 aint bad, and will still be a cool motor for my Original 307 car!

(Unless I put it in a LM1 King! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

If the broach marks look good all the better, if not, oh well!

Thanks,

Rich

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

I would have bought it for $6000 to. They were asking for $15000 when I looked at it.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

I know there are labs that can do some type of test to the metal to see "if the molecules below the surface have been compressed" by a prior stamping. I know there was a vette on Ebay within the last year that claimed to have had this done to the frame and block to prove there was no restamps...I believe it was a 67 L-88..not sure though. He had all the lab reports...maybe someone remembers the auction and you can contact the lab. But I know the FBI does it all the time to check removed serial numbers on guns. It may be worth it to prove originality..

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

It can only be done once and the memory is removed from what I remember. So if the test comes up empty it proves nothing.


Jason

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

I believe there are a couple fellows from a University in Utah that have come up with a procedure that can be done repeatedly and is not affected by the the old "one shot" test.

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

I'm sure that Technology has Improved......but back in the Sixties......I know that the Police had a method of lightly heating the Stamp Pad with a torch, then they would apply some sort of Acid to the Pad and it would bring up any Stampings that were pre-existing....
I know of a couple guys that were "Busted" by this procedure ........ https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/shocked.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/shocked.gif

Ken

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

[ QUOTE ]

I know of a couple guys that were "Busted" by this procedure ........ https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/shocked.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/shocked.gif

Ken

[/ QUOTE ]

Bad boys, Bad boys....whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

Its possible that a non original motor car started out as a factory blank pad and not a reground one. Therefore an acid test doesnt prove anything with 100% certainty really.

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

Interesting points. I did not know there was a test that could be repeated. Also, the blank pad point is also a good one. Maybe if we all ask nicely the restamping will stop. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its possible that a non original motor car started out as a factory blank pad and not a reground one. Therefore an acid test doesnt prove anything with 100% certainty really.

[/ QUOTE ]

very good point. i guess it could only "dis-prove" originality...in other words...if there was a prior stamping, it would show..if it was never stamped, it would show nothing. I guess it would prove if it was the "original stamping" or not...the question being ... when was it stamped?? Does anyone have pics of another similar dated motor?? Do the cast and assembly date seem in order?? What about the alpha-numerics...sure'd like to see photos of other stampings for comparison...

did you get the head off yet and check the broach marks????? great site guys...learning every day!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

Tomorrow is the last day of the crusin the coast show, I'll be heading home then. I bought a gasket set! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

There are estimated to be over 6,000 classic cars this year, one of the best showings ever. Many 69's and a lot of hemi cuda's and clones. The car corral and swap meet was pretty dismal this year. Everyone's parts were ruined by the hurricane. Some of you northerners should come down next year, you'd make a killing!

Two respected people in the hobby have looked at pictures of the stamp (and I need to stress that it was just pics, they or one of them need to see it in person) and at first glance, the stamp seems to be in line with other MP stamps from that time frame. Cast and assembly dates line up, not sure if the chevelle VIN and assembly dates line up, anyone know dates ranges on chevelle vins?

The head will come off early next week, and I should know more.

Real question is that everyone seems to agree that it is a L72 engine, if so, what could it have been out of if not the chevelle whose vin is stamped by the oil filter? I have learned to start by attempting to find the (or not so) obvious and disprove first, then work on proving.

Rich

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

...not sure if the chevelle VIN and assembly dates line up, anyone know dates ranges on chevelle vins?..

As I replied earlier &amp; going on just what your brief pictures show,that VIN # shows up as a Chevelle or Elcamino,assembled July 1969 from the Kansas City Leeds plant.

Re: value of a ZL 1 clone with a real ZL1 motor
 

[ QUOTE ]
Real question is that everyone seems to agree that it is a L72 engine, if so, what could it have been out of if not the chevelle whose vin is stamped by the oil filter

[/ QUOTE ] It could be many things if it was restamped. CE warranty motor, boat motor,truck motor,and if you take it further it could have been a converted 2 bolt from an impala,just to name a few of the possibilities.