Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

BIG difference between correct motor , i.e. correct dated motor but not original and "original Matching engine."

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

69hurst...check your private messages.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Just so everyone knows up front, I am in no way related to this walking, talking JACKA**!

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

HA! I *might* vouch for you, Rusty! LOL!!

What happened on the phone the other day? It's like it just faded to black, so I kept trying to call back, and it's like the whole thing was froze up? Then I finally got through, but it was your friggin voicemail?? Maybe some Hillbilly running the show at the cell phone place again??!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

I would keep the car and fix the issues, the way the market is going you won't lose. Anytime i ever bought a car i always figured to spend a few thousand on it as it is never what you expect. There is always an issue with it somewhere. Although it sounds like more than a few in your case, but it seems you bought a potentially nice car.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Charley, You're showing more restraint than I'm capable of. MR 69 HURST has stated his position, and now I find him just plain arrogant. His CAP LOCK B.S.is just plain disrespectful to everyone here (Still dont know why K.P. gets away it).....and he deserves a "time-out"
I am one of the 2nd Gen Legends Judges for the ACA Camaro Nationals at Carlisle. I have also been an expert witness in a Tacoma,WA court case, where a man bought a clone 70 Z-28, sold as real......never have claimed to know it all, however 70 Camaros are of a special interest to me.
All the 70 Norwood Z-28's I've inspected had there VIN #'s stamped on lower rear left bellhousing flange (see pic example below) staring with 10N5XXXXX. The block in question may or may not have a real VIN in that location, but VIN on deck has been added !!!!!!!!
L.A. Z-28's generally had there VIN's stamped on the deck.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...tails/Vin3.jpg

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

I agree, Charley needs to release those velcro straps on his shoes once in a while and kick some boot.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

I hope this helps, sorry about the caps, I never relied on the block vin stamp to form my opinion of the originality of this block, I realize it should have 2 additional numerals. If i was trying to hide or fool someone i would not have included a photo of the vin. There may very well be a vin stamp down below, I couldnt see one. I dont think anyone can say for certain that this motor did not come in this car. you can say all you want about the stamp being suspect. I agree the vin stamp is suspect. What i cant answer is who put it there. sm

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

[ QUOTE ]
I hope this helps, sorry about the caps, I never relied on the block vin stamp to form my opinion of the originality of this block, I realize it should have 2 additional numerals. If i was trying to hide or fool someone i would not have included a photo of the vin. There may very well be a vin stamp down below, I couldnt see one. I dont think anyone can say for certain that this motor did not come in this car. you can say all you want about the stamp being suspect. I agree the vin stamp is suspect. What i cant answer is who put it there. sm

[/ QUOTE ]

Lawyereze..........Nuf Said!!!

Ken

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

As an owner of my '70 Z since 1979 and having inspected many '70-'73 Z/28's,it didn't take me long to see something was seriously wrong with RS Endura nose on this car...that one's about as cobbled up as any I've ever seen.Obviously full of filler...makes one wonder about the rest of the car... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

That would have thrown up a red flag for me...the moment I saw the internet picture.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

[ QUOTE ]
YOU OBVIOUSLY DIDNT READ MY AD OR THE TERMS. WHEN LOOKING AT A CAR YOU FORM YOUR OWN OPINION. OPINIONS DIFFER..

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
paint thin in alot of places, doors repainted hastily, drivers door fits poorly especially to upper weatherstripping (which is very loose), drivers window very floppy, endura nose cracked (looks like it was repaired at some point with bondo), metal door edge guards weren't removed when painted, poor stripe finish (some tape edge seeps), quick undercoating job (alot came off in car wash) doesn't appear to be hiding anything though, a few bondo cracks on hood. Overall it has all the bits its just not nearly the way it should be for the price I paid. I was willing to pay good money for a car I could tinker with and fix the small stuff and end up with a really nice driver, but for what I paid, I feel I got hosed. I didn't pay good money for a car I would have to do a thorough going through.

"THE BODY OF THIS Z/28 IS VERY NICE AND STRAIGHT, THE CAR HAS VERY NICE LINES, THE DOORS OPEN AND SHUT WITH EASE. THE PAINT IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION, IT SHINES AS IF PAINTED LAST WEEK,"



https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gifSounds like two different opinions(and cars)being described.

Silk purse or sow's ear? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

I think if this is not the original block they sure found a perfect block to put in. What I'm saying is the dates fit perfect for the car, and I think if you look on the oil filter flange it may make you feel better. I alway said a 70Z with the VIN on the pad is worth taking a second look at because i don't think it happened at the factory. But everyone thinks all correct engines should have it or else people will question the car, so they were added when they got a chance. Some did a better job then others, this guy did a lousy job like it was done in the car with the head on and free hand.
So like someone said you my have the original engine with a added VIN on the pad. If so I think you have a nice car with a lot of potential and a Great color and options you just paid to much.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Gentlemen, Obviously there is room for blame on both sides of the issue. I hope everyone reading this thread who is new to the hobby realizes the importance of examining a car first hand before buying. If you are spending an amount of money that makes you the least bit uncomfortable, then for petes sakes go look at the car wherever it may be. What makes you uncomfortable has more to do with the value of the car as opposed to a buyers financial situation. (Although I'm sure certain people buy six and seven figure cars without looking at them and don't think twice) My rule of thumb is to research the value of the car through various sources and reach an educated opinion of the REAL value to me. If I'm going to pay that number or more I always go look. Otherwise I may simply buy based on photos knowing I'm getting a real steal and there might be some hidden problems. The problem I see here is the attitude of the seller when confronted with the issue. If the seller had a different demeanor with regards to the complaints I think the responses would be less harsh. The seller needs to consider that he may be "burning bridges" with folks who might be potential buyers when he jumps on a respected member of the hobby ,and this site ,like Charley. By the way Ken that doesn't sound like lawyereze. If the seller had spoken with an attorney, I'm sure he would have been advised to make no statements regarding his belief that the vin stamp is suspect. An admission that is patently ommitted from the original desc. on e-bay. It is one thing to honestly be in the dark about an issue and quite another to have suspicion about an issue and fail to disclose the same. Hope that wasn't too much lawyereze. Mitch

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Not for nothing, "failure to disclose" the picture of the vin stamp is plain as day, the description shows the vin as it is stamped. how did i fail to disclose? sm

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

69Hurst, some of these guys have given you really good advice that would allow you to come away from this looking like a real standup guy and yet you just keep plugging along trying to justify your position. Why? Don't you see your just making yourself out to be the bad guy? There have been over 2600 views of this thread. Talk about free advertising! Come on man, work this thing out and at least walk away with your reputation in tact even if it cost you a few bucks. It's the classy thing to do.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

As i said early in this thread, the buyer and i had a conversation on friday, we have not spoken since. I have read many posts concerning the stamp none of witch has been a concern from the buyer to me. Some talk about giving a few bucks back. It is up to the buyer and the seller to work that out isnt it? Here is the first post that gord made on this site.

I just bought this car officially on tues. You can imagine how shocked I was when a friend of mine sent me this link. When I saw it was my new car being questioned I nearly puked!!! Until I saw the forum I was completely happy with my new baby. I have been looking for about 1 1/2 years for the right car and it always seemed to elude me. Some just plain went for too much or the one I really wanted at Legendary Motorcar in June I missed by 24 hrs. because I waited to phone them instead of E-mailing them immediately.To make a long story short, I thought I missed this one as well when it first went off e-bay. When my wife found it relisted I took it as fate. I jumped on this one. To my novice knowledge I was satisfied everything was proper. I once vowed to not buy w/o docs but somehow I felt secure with this one. Documentation always seemed to put the price up just out of my reach. BUYER BEWARE!!! No one but myself to blame for my now bleeding ulcer and baggy eyes. I want to make it clear I don not blame the seller in any way. I think some of you know who he is and I want to make it clear, every option was put before me to verify things and I opted for blind faith. Is there anyone who can share some insight to how big a mistake I've made or not made. Regardless, I intend to enjoy this car to the fullest. It's only money right! I can drive this puppy without fear of depreiciation. I intend on using AAAuto Transport to get it here. Cheapest, and most helpfull out of 40 phone calls. Any Red FLAGS on this decision? Hope to get more sleep tonight. Thanks, Gord

I will try to work it out with gord for a positive outcome. sm

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

[ QUOTE ]
I will try to work it out with gord for a positive outcome. sm

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds like a great idea https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

By the way Ken that doesn't sound like lawyereze. If the seller had spoken with an attorney, I'm sure he would have been advised to make no statements regarding his belief that the vin stamp is suspect. An admission that is patently ommitted from the original desc. on e-bay. It is one thing to honestly be in the dark about an issue and quite another to have suspicion about an issue and fail to disclose the same. Hope that wasn't too much lawyereze. Mitch

[/ QUOTE ] https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

Yawn!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Hey guys lets all take a deep breath here!!!!!! This has gotten a little out of control. I have just gotten off the phone with the seller, he's always treated me in the most forthcoming manner, with respect, and honesty. I will concede that I was not the most educated buyer when I bought the car and am still learning today. Ultimately, I was the one who bought the car, if I had been a better educated buyer at the time, I may not have. Regardless, it's my responsibility. The seller and I are taking steps to work this issue out. He has taken some harsh criticism here and for that I am sorry. That was not my intent. I was using this site to educate myself, not to bash the seller!!! He talked to me and is treating me with the utmost respect, and deserves the same in return. I need to clear some issues up that have been raised, so the onus is on me to do so, I will get to this as soon as I can. Lets all take a collective deep breath and stop jumping to conclusions, O.K.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Iam sure we have all taken our lumps in what ever deals we have done cars,houses, whatever etc??But somewhere sometime we must all grow up and take responsibility for our actions because someone won,t always be there to hold our hands if it dosen,t go our way.Its taken years of car collecting and hard lessons to gather the knowledge that i personally and most of the board members here have and we still have lots to learn,imho if the seller wants to kick some money back to the buyer he,s a hero in my eyes..... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Good, then the posts accomplished the goal. Cool.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Have you checked for the partial VIN down by the oil filter flange? That's the first thing I would be doing, check to see if it truly is the original motor. That will make a big difference in value and could help you decide if you want to keep the car or not. The car is a great color combination and the original motor will help even more.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

I am going right now to try and see whats there. Should I also find a partial vin behind the heater core on this year camaro?

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Here is my take on a situation like this...Grusum...when the car got there it was not what you expected. I have bought cars sight unseen and they are never what we envision.Work something out with the seller. If it's a real 70 Z in Daytona yellow you have a very cool car. Play with it...work on it...put money in it...enjoy it...down the road you will be glad you did.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

I took the blower motor off..........no numbers on that flange. Checked for the partial vin above oil filter....nothing there either. Tried to take heater core box off but was unsuccessful, broke a couple of studs and quit while I was ahead.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Point of Information Regarding Norwood VIN location......I bought my current 70 Norwood Z-28 in 1978. I will tell you that I found my VIN stamped on the left side of block in the area between the two soft plugs. I can't explain why or how, but it is true.
I dont have picture at this time, but with enough doubters I will do so......

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

[ QUOTE ]
I took the blower motor off..........no numbers on that flange. Checked for the partial vin above oil filter....nothing there either. Tried to take heater core box off but was unsuccessful, broke a couple of studs and quit while I was ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is a photo of my 72 T/A (with a/c). It actually has the VIN stamped in two spots, the traditional a/c equipped location, vertically, to the left of the heater box opening, and in the non-a/c location: horizontally under the circular fan motor hole. It is very hard to get to these spots: you have to remove your heater box to do so, which can also require removing the pass side inner fender to access all of the studs.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Did you get the casting # and casting date from the engine? I'm guessing that if the engine code and date stamping are real then the casting date on the block will fall in line as well. I would check with some of the 2nd gen gurus here to see if they can help out a little more.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

This is where you should find the VIN behind the blower motor, also a picture of my oil filter flange. They kept trying about four times, also notice the inspection crayon mark.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL17/1.../130184799.jpg

See it on the inside left?
http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL17/1.../130184706.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL17/1...0/97138874.jpg

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Charley,

I appreciate the fact that some people can buy things sight unseen still. I have bought a few parts sight unseen from you and would do it again it a heartbeat. It is a shame when others will not do the same and give honor a bad name. I can see both sides of the coin in this thread and hope everything works out for all involved. One thing is for sure, that color combo is awesome and in todays market throwing some money at a paint job would just be an investment in the future of the car!


Jason

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Jack...absolutely great pics...

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Thanks Bob, I have a Great subject!!!

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Gordon,

After reading this lengthy thread it is quite easy to see why so many posts were added, and yes there are points to both sides of the debate. I won't get into discrepencies of the car, but would offer to say that the car appears to be a real RS Z at this point, and it is quite obvious that you have a lot of car there to work with. Since you pulled the trigger on this deal without the required due dilligence most would excercise, I suggest you now lick your wounds and learn to appreciate what you have sitting there.

If I can further caution you on the car, don't rush to remove parts in the quest to find it's authenticity and end up breaking or damaging parts, but get the proper info on where to look and how to get there. Many of the knowledgeable people on this site and others would be happy to converse with you on the car, and can easily show you what to correct should you discover things that are not quite right on the car. Whats important is the fact that 2nd generation cars are well on the move $ wise, and you have a great car to work with should it require some work over the next couple years.

You can always drive it in the summer, and do a partial resto on a budget over the winter without having to redo the entire car at once should that be the thing that makes it right for you. I have owned and inspected many muscle cars over the years, and this one may have stung you a bit, but it's far from the type of car one should bail from just because it's rough around the edges. Fact is, the market is strong, and you will come out of this alright in your pockets. Don't be so hasty to dump it. It's a hot car that's very much in demand.

Tom https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

I'll have to say some of these forums are very good reading material; better than some of the magazines I read.

I would say there will probably come a day you'll be glad you have the car.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

OH MY GOD! I didn't realize the #s were in there, I thought they were on the flange where the blower mounts. My bad, I'll check again and get back. Hey you guys, THANK YOU for your support and advice. That comes from my heart, very much appreciated.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Thank God for digital cameras! I didn't even know I had the answer until I downloaded the pics tonight. I just jammed my camera up in there and snapped away. If you zoom in on these you can clearly see 0N5446 the last two you can't decifer well, but I'm conviced. I'll can't post them so who can I e-mail them to?

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

I'll post them.
Email them to me at [email protected]

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Keep in mind that your cowl pictures will just confirm that the body on the car matches the vin tag, i.e., there hasn't been a vin/body swap. The more important question is whether the engine has a stamping "from the factory" that matches your VIN. As was indicated earlier, the one on the block deck is suspect.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Yes the stamping on the block is still a point of contention, however with the casting dates being what they are: D 28 0, I think that it is unlikely that someone could find a correct CTB block(that stamping is legit) within that narrow time frame. Possible, yes, but unlikely, right? The casting # is also correct for a CTB. Tranny #'s, and diff #'s are within the proper time frame as well. So if it is not a matching #'s stamping, it may be a date coded, re-stamped block at worst, right?
I've sent the pics of the partial vin found in the blower motor area to mr70, Thank you to him, that confirms that the vins, where they are in fact correct, match to this car undoubtably. Also it has been confirmed by esteemed gurus here that the trim tag is legit, and by inspecting it myself, armed along information collected here I strongly feel that the tag has never been off the car. In short the car has all the right parts apparently, including the correct gas pedal parts, guages, and various bits. A true Z28, withdesireable options. So apart from paying too much, in my opinion, the general consensus on this forum is that I'm still getting most of what I need to build a very nice car. I just hope I can get over the initial first impression to get up the will to start the project. BUT, if someone got marooned on a deserted island with an ugly woman, I bet it wouldn't be too many months before he had thoughts of jumping her anyway (or killing her and using her for bait, LOL) I haven't decided what to do yet and may not for sometime, but I do appreciate everone's input.
I must say that support fom my family and friends has been a very comforting aspect to all of this. I am grateful, and very lucky.
P.S.- If anyone here knows Chip Foose personally, let him know what a good story this would make. Maybe we could donate the car to charity when it gets overhauled, LMAO.