Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

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Why do people think the 1971 plymouth Hemicuda convertible is such a great car? It's not the fastest car.It's not the rarest.I think a documented 68 or 69 Camaro RS/SS L89 convertible would would be a much rarer car.

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The market thinks otherwise!

Its not always about the rarest and fastest. They're not the best built cars either. That we know. But to many, their a pretty darn cool sought after piece of history. I'll still take a hard top over the convertible. Patrick

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

They made 11 hemicuda ragtops in 1971 (7 for US consumption, 2 for Canada and 2 exports) Are L89's convertibles rarer? The good thing about Mopars is that they are easily decyphered: the engine is the 5th digit in the VIN and just about every car had at least one broadcast sheet in the seats, under the dash, etc. And Chrysler kept production records (but no paperwork). I would agree it's not the fastest but it is the ultimate in musclecar era excesses: the scariest engine in the sexiest body style.

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

Does the 70 and 71 Hemi have the same compression ratio? I just thought after 1970 muscle cars starting loosing performance.

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

I am pretty sure Mopar kept the compression up. They were stubborn.

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

Speaking of Stripping good cars to make a Better one, Heartbeat JIM told me they found a 2000 Mile 68 Z-28 in Lititz Pa. Bought it for $60K and used it to restore the 68 Z-28 Convertible!

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

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Does the 70 and 71 Hemi have the same compression ratio? I just thought after 1970 muscle cars starting loosing performance.

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Same engine in 70 and 71 (hydraulic lifters, 10.25 to 1 compression) from 66 to 69 they had solid lifters, same compression

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

OK, now it makes more sence. but still I wonder why the hydraulic lifter Hemi is worth more then the solid lifter Hemi car convertible's. Take the camaro for example, I am sure, That a 1969 camaro RS/SS L34 high performance hydraulic lifter 396 convertible with air conditioning is rarer then the same car with the L78 solid lifter 396 without a/c, but the L78 vert.is worth more.

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

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OK, now it makes more sence. but still I wonder why the hydraulic lifter Hemi is worth more then the solid lifter Hemi car convertible's. Take the camaro for example, I am sure, That a 1969 camaro RS/SS L34 high performance hydraulic lifter 396 convertible with air conditioning is rarer then the same car with the L78 solid lifter 396 without a/c, but the L78 vert.is worth more.

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It's not the motor that's worth more, it the cars they came in in 70 and 71. The E-body (cuda and challenger), the B-Body: Charger, Roadrunner, GTX, Coronet Superbee and R/T were all a bit more refined in 70 and in 71 the body style changed to the "fuselage styling", so you had two years of cars with two totally different body shapes. Also the 70 and 71s were the rarest years. I think the most common post-69 hemi car was the 70 hemicuda at 652 hardtops. That's a raging sales sucess for a Chrysler product. For example, they only made 112 hemi Charger R/Ts in 70, the last year of the "coke bottle" body style: 56 four speeds and 56 automatics. Of those 112, 10 were R/T-SE four speeds and 4 were automatics....and all 14 are still around!

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

To add, the difference in lifters with the Hemis didn't really alter the performance of such other than it was easier to live with. The L34 comparison is a bit of a stretch.

Steve, I've got a Q regarding the R/T SE. How can they know how many were made with the Hemi if you can't combine options to arrive at production figures? I think it's a number thrown around through the ages and everyone just assumes it is correct.

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

The 56/56=112 R/T Charger hemi numbers are a known quantity as Chrysler kept drivetrain records as a % of total production figures. The SE combination is from Galen's statistics on the A47 option (the SE package) and known cars. No more have surfaced in quite a long time. One interesting note: of the 112 total cars built, Galen has records on 56 cars that still exist in some form or another: restored, original, wrecked or remnants.

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

Interesting how about 50% of the Hemi-Chargers built are accounted for by Galen. About the same for 70 Hemi-Challengers. He has information on 145 of the 287 built in 70. Some wrecked, dismantled or rotted out. Very slowly that number has been going up. Still some out there to be discovered and those that don't want to be recorded. Patrick

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

But, knowing Galen, you can't combine a percentage (# of Hemis) with a percentage (# of cars with SE option), right? So it's not a hard, real number.

Using the Hemicuda ragtop of this thread, we know 7 US-spec cars were built. Let's assume In Violet was the most popular color that year. Are we to assume that at least one of the ragtops is this color because over 10% of 'Cudas were this color? Because, statistically speaking, that cannot be.

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

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But, knowing Galen, you can't combine a percentage (# of Hemis) with a percentage (# of cars with SE option), right? So it's not a hard, real number.

Using the Hemicuda ragtop of this thread, we know 7 US-spec cars were built. Let's assume In Violet was the most popular color that year. Are we to assume that at least one of the ragtops is this color because over 10% of 'Cudas were this color? Because, statistically speaking, that cannot be.

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You are correct! Patrick

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

FC7 In Violet was no-where near the most popular color. My guess is that FE8 Green would be. I think the most logical guess was that about 10% of the Charger R/Ts had the SE package. But keep in mind that in 69 buyers were prohibited from ordering an R/T-SE with a hemi. When 70 rolled around, no one advertised the fact to the dealers that the ban was lifted, so that further reduced the amount ordered. I will have to check my numbers books and get back to you. But you are correct, there is no way to extrapolate by combining percentages to arrive at a finite number of Hemi + option A + option B numbers. The 14 I refer to is, as I said, known cars per Galen's info. (Also one of those cars is a Canadian car, so that makes it 13 US and 1 Canadian.)

On the Challenger it's a lot more definitive because the hemi Challenger R/T-SE was a specific VIN code JS29RO instead of regular hemi R/T which was JS23R0 if I recall correctly. The hemi R/T ragtop would be JS27RO

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

How come you were not allowed to order a hemi in 69?

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

I was talking about 1971 Hemicudas, and F8 was not available in 1971.

However, in 1970, F8 was not the most popular color for the Charger R/T. Check out http://host219.ipowerweb.com/~1970ch.../RT_Codes.html and you'll see there are at least two other colors that were built in greater numbers.

Also, you'll see from that site that approximately 1452 Charger R/T SEs were built. If you apply (statistically incorrectly, might I add) the 1.2% of Hemi production to that, it comes to 17 or so, so I guess we know the number "14" doesn't come from that incorrect math.

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

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How come you were not allowed to order a hemi in 69?

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I think something mechanical that was necessary with the Hemi was incompatible with the SE package. I can't remember what.

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

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I was talking about 1971 Hemicudas, and F8 was not available in 1971.

However, in 1970, F8 was not the most popular color for the Charger R/T. Check out http://host219.ipowerweb.com/~1970ch.../RT_Codes.html and you'll see there are at least two other colors that were built in greater numbers.

Also, you'll see from that site that approximately 1452 Charger R/T SEs were built. If you apply (statistically incorrectly, might I add) the 1.2% of Hemi production to that, it comes to 17 or so, so I guess we know the number "14" doesn't come from that incorrect math.

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14 are registered in Galens Registry. There is a possibility Chrysler built more. Doubtful though. Galens numbers don't imply production numbers in many cases. Just vehicles registered.

2 known 70 Hemi-Challengers with factory T/A hoods listed in his regsistry. Are there more? Maybe. In 25 years he's only found 2. Mine and a Triple Black drag car. It was parted out 20 years ago. Their were so called rumors of the factory running out of Shakers in late 70 and replacing the N96 Shaker hood with N94 T/A hoods. More myth then fact.

Patrick

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

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How come you were not allowed to order a hemi in 69?

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I think something mechanical that was necessary with the Hemi was incompatible with the SE package. I can't remember what.

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You could get a hemi in a Charger R/T in 69, but not an R/T-SE. Chrysler was wierd with its rules back then. It could have been something as stupid as the 14" SE hubcaps not being available on the 15"x6" wheels that were required with a hemi in 1969. In 1970 there was no mandatory 15" wheel on a hemi B-body, only on E-bodies, so that may be why the restriction was lifted. (My car came with 14"x6" Rallyes)

Re: $5 Million Dollar HEMI CUDA Convertible!!
 

Regarding fine art . . . it's not a good comparison. Art is universal. Musclecars are cultural.

Art can be used for a comparison in this case as a comparison of "collector thinking".
Any thing valued on pure rarity and not on beauty alone could be compared this way.
Heck, not all expensive art is nice to look at, and some that are, aren't necessarily more valuable than the ugly art.
When the comparison is done from a "car guys" point of view, the value for the 4 door does not stack up,but,from a "collector's perspective" it certainly can and does.
I think that is kind of what Riggs was going for in his comments.
Mark.