Re: Ram Air IV versus 455 HO
 

I just saw a cool article on a comparison of a 69 Cougar Cvt 428 CJ and a 69 Bird 400 HO I think in Hemmings Muscle ? I couldn't believe the part about the throttle stop...very cool...why did they do it so it wouldn't twist the car or ?

Re: Ram Air IV versus 455 HO
 

They did this to protect the image of the GTO. The Firebird was 150-200 lbs. lighter than the Goat, and had better exhaust manifolds, but both engines were identical. In every road test I have where a Firebird and the GTO were present, the Firebird was always quicker by at least 2/10 of a second. Of course, the road testers had always removed the throttle stop. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

But as far as Pontiac image was concerned, the GTO was THE flagship car. Pontiac rated the 350 hp GTO engine as 330 hp in the Firebird, and the 370 hp GTO RAIV was 345 hp in the Firebird.

The inside story was that they were trying to keep the 10 lbs. per hp (an unwritten GM law) in effect to keep the insurance companies happy. The 3450 lb RAIV Firebird at 345 hp verses the 3700 lb. RAIV GTO. Problem was, there WAS no corporate policy, it was really just an insurance gesture. For proof that GM didn't really have a "rule", I give you the 396/375hp Camaro weighing in at around 3500 lbs.

When Pontiac engineers ran the new 1967 Firebird 400 by GM top brass, management felt the Firebird broke their little rule of 10 lbs. per hp. But the engineers were all finished with the 1967 Firebird, and they weren't going to change anything last minute. Fact was, it was a lighter, smaller, better handling version of the GTO, and everyone knew it. In order to appease top brass, the engineers cobbled up a make shift throttle stop, and that stayed in place until 1969.

Re: Ram Air IV versus 455 HO
 

I had a one owner 68 Firebird 400 convert and the throttle stop was still there. I think I fixed it by just doing a little bending....

Re: Ram Air IV versus 455 HO
 

I agree with Mike. However when it came to rules, there were no rules for the "Flagship Division" Chevrolet. they were allowed to do pretty much whatever they wanted.

Re: Ram Air IV versus 455 HO
 

Just realized I said the throttle stop was used "until 1969", that of course included the 1969 model year. Probably should have said "until 1970".

Chevrolet was the big dog, and they were allowed to do whatever they wanted. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Ram Air IV versus 455 HO
 

I own an original RA IV firebird. The car was a race car and only has 15,000 miles on it. It was an engineering ordered car and it came through with a GTO carb linkage.
It was also sound deadener and radio delete. This car went 11:90's in C/stock back in 69.
I have ridden in many 455 HO, Super duty firebirds and I would put a RAIV car up against it all day long.
I have been drag racing ponchos since 87. Had just about every engine combo.
I have even had all the parts to complete a RAV motor, But not all at the same time.
I am currently racing a turbocharged 428 in a 69 bird @ 2900 lbs.
If anybody is interested in these cars
check out www.msnusers.com/RAIVBIRDPICS
there is a 68 GTO 4 spd W/4.33 gears
My RAIV 69 bird 4spd w/4.33 gears later changed to 4.88'S
And also a prostock RAV 4spd car. You can find the story of the RAV car in january 72 rodder and super stock magazine.
All three cars were raced by bill eckstrom of Bristol conn. and campaigned by Stephens pontiac. They are still in business today.
It's too bad more people don't know about Bill and his race cars. Every body knows who royal, knaffel, berger, yenco, and tasca are but stephens pontiac has stayed relatively unknown. I think more poeple would like to hear about some new cars rather than the same old stories about the same old cars. Even though all those other cars were pretty Killer cars.

Re: Ram Air IV versus 455 HO
 

Turbo...welcome to the site. Is this your 69 RA4 bird ? Does it still look that way ? Truly a very cool looking car. https://www.yenko.net/attachments/156...0115195736.jpg

Re: Ram Air IV versus 455 HO
 

Whoa...https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif

Re: Ram Air IV versus 455 HO
 

What a great thread! Love learning about Pontiacs, I would like to comment on the earlier threads discussing the different car weights. As some of you may know, I have purchased a couple of fine cars from Charlie. My current love of course is his former LS-6 'vette.
I had this car weighed and certified, it does have PS, PB, T/T, RWD. Car came in at 3340lbs without me and virtually no fuel in tank. Full tank of fuel will add 103lbs to car.

My former '69 L78 SS Camaro convertible weighed 3750lbs and my '70 440 R/T SE Challenger coupe weighed 3840lbs.

Re: Ram Air IV versus 455 HO
 

Nice Bird!!!

Charley zoom in on the car across and behind, looks like a goat.

Re: Ram Air IV versus 455 HO
 

Yes it still looks similar. It has a few hard drag race miles on it but has never had a cage or anything welded in it. The body panels are all original. The car was supposedly acid dipped or special sheet metal or something. but I can't verify that for sure. It does only wheigh 3250 complete and all steel and full interior. It's the lightest firebird I have seen. I personally ran 12.00's for 12 years in it just so I wouldn't have to cage it. I did dip it into the 11's a few times here and there. I built the Turbocharged car a couple of years ago and retired the RAIV car. I have accumulated alot of the parts That The dealer removed.
They trew out the RAIV pans and flappers on day one after Tom Nell told them they were worthless and heavy!!!
The lettering on the sides is no longer on the car but the lace is still mostly there.
and it was actually raced with a 67 RAI carburator?? who knows why. I have the correct carb for it though. It was also changed to an M20 at half year to take advantage of the low first gear. The pontiacs could run the wider ratio and pull it off.
I'm glad you guy's appreciate it.
That car has been one hell of a race car for me and It holds alot of memories.

I actually had a buddy with RAIV convertible that has had some talk about it on this site as well. I brokered the deal between him and Marc S. and got burned by him in the end. So beware. You think he'd appreciate a deal where he bought a car for $29,000 and sold it for over $60,000. with out doing anything. The car had no original motor, tranny, rear and the body was rough. I still know where the original short block is for that car. It's rotting in a guys back yard here in CT. Totally worthless at this point unfortunately.
Thanks for the welcome. This seems to be a great site!

The 71 455 HO is basically a slightly lower compression and milder cammed 455 cubic inch RAIV (to meet emissions) and includes the 4-bolt mains. Just drop in some 10.5:1 forged pistons and a modern cam and have the best of both worlds. For even more fun top it off with a nice Holley HP mechanical secondary carb and an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake. Massive torque and unstoppable top end, a positively killer combination especially when mated to a Richmond Gear 5-Speed !

The 455SD was designed as a race engine but GM got their hand slapped when caught messing with emission.The block is a 4 bolt main with all joined lifter bores like the RA Vs and also provisions for a dry sump oiling system.Diff cam altogether as it has a smaller dizzy gear on the cam and a larger gear on the dizzy to handle the 80 LB supplied in the engine.Too bad they could not get it ready for 1970 with high compression and a IV cam. They had to go back,run a smaller cam and a iron intake from the the engine that was given for emissions.Pre dated the VW cheating scandal.FWIW,Tom

Pontiac collection
 

If anybody has interest in buying a Ram IV,SD'S & H.O Trans Ams you might want to look me up Gotmusclecars.com just a few Trans Ams and Judges coming through...

Race engine?

Pair of original 69 RAIV engines

Very nice Matt, what codes are those babies? Dates and letters I mean .

I see and FB written on one and I don’t think it’s for Face Book.