Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

doesn't make a 71 hemi cuda convertible look cheap.

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

[ QUOTE ]
..However how many guys that are in their mid 20's or early 30's feel that a Yenko camaro is worth 150k??

[/ QUOTE ]

I DO!! I DO!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

I'm with you Rob, Jeff and Joe.

Deusenbergs, Cords, Auburns, Bugattis, pre-war Bentleys, etc. all go up and down in price but you can look through the volatility and see them generally trending up. But how is that possible if the vast majority of the cars are owned now by people that can't possibly have been alive when the cars could be bought new? Why do you think they hold their value? I think they hold their value because they're beautiful, built by master craftsmen, are rare, represented the pinnacle of their day from an engineering and performance standpoint and remind people of a perceived "Golden Age".

Think about it...if you were in your mid-20s in 1955 you'd be pushing 75-80 today, you may not go out and buy a T-Bird, early Vette, Jag XK120 or Mercedes 300SL Gullwing, but there are plenty of people that were either wearing short pants or not even alive that would love to own one of them, me included.

Consider this, I was 2 1/2 years old when my ZL-1 was sent back to Norwood and my COPO left the same factory. It's not like I was there with Dennis Hartweg when the first two ZL-1s were delivered to LaHarpe. I don't even remember when I saw my first Camaro. So why do I like them so much and am I willing to pay "the big bucks" for them? It just so happens that my uncle, who some board members happen to know, is an Oldsmobile guy who had 3 or 4 Cutlass W-31 or 4-4-2 W-30s around in the late 70s/early 80s (still does). His cars were far cooler, faster, more visceral than any whistling, popping 930 Turbo or Ferrari Boxer that was new in that era (not to mention would leave them behind over a 1-2 block street race). I still clearly remember finding for the first time a place to hang on under the passenger seat by the frame rail when he stomped it -- I found that same place when Carl Stuber gave me my first panic ride in a Yenko at SCR5. I'm sure many of us have similar stories to tell as will other future, younger buyers of these cars.

Not only do my cars give me an emotional boost because of that, but I like what they represent: they're beautiful, built by master craftsmen (well, maybe not that part first time around), are rare, represented the pinnacle of their day from an engineering and performance standpoint and remind me of a perceived "Golden Age" (and I don't mean Flower Power).

I'm confident that these cars will continue to go up in value due to these factors. Maybe, like the stock market, many of us will hit a trough in the Supercar market when it comes time to sell, but over the long haul if you've bought the right car the trend should be up. Are there better investments? Without doubt. Are there more satisfying investments? Maybe. Have I found one that gives me the same mix of potential upside, emotional kick and entree into a fantastic community of friendly, interesting, knowledgeable, devoted and, in many cases, just down right good folk. Not even close.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/scholar.gif

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

[ QUOTE ]
doesn't make a 71 hemi cuda convertible look cheap.


[/ QUOTE ]

Fair point! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Fact is, you're on the wrong message board if you're looking for supporters of your "supercars will be worthless someday" crusade. I think just the opposite...prices of Yenkos, COPOs, etc. have nowhere to go but up. Wait a few years and see if you can buy these cars for the prices they sell at today or less...with the increasing rarity of original parts, the depletion of "unfound" cars, and the cost of restoration going higher and higher each year, it's not gonna happen.

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

90k !! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

I hope the wealthy younger generation wises up...you keep buying those european high dollar clunkers and you aren't going to be wealthy long !!!Talk about depreciation...buy an "esses" whatever that is (i'm old) now for 80k and sell it for 25 in 5 years !...I have been a "car guy" since I was 5 years old along with a few others in my family.We have had cool cars ever since we could drive.I think the young guys who are into imports now because they are cheap will hopefully settle down,run the country right,stop buying euro crap,hold on to their wealth in whatever form that is and say to themselves "I think I am finally going to buy that Yenko now"

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Hey!!!! Don't point that reply at me, Mister!

I just spent twenty minutes typing thoughtful prose. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/mad.gif

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

[ QUOTE ]
90k !! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

So much for the theory of cars without paperwork being worthless!

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/Charley.gif

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Hey we are having fun here Charley...go feed your Horse-a-poos and cat-huhuas

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

No one ever said undocumented cars were worthless.......just worth less than documented ones.....this just means a documented restored Ls6 convertible is 250 to 300k....

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

It Does? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

So because the one on Ebay sells for 90K you are saying a documented restored one is now worth 250 to 300K ? Just because of the ebay sale ? This is getting goofier by the minute....Now that I think about it, you were probably joking....

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Chuck did you sell your LS6 convertible?

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

yes that was heartfelt jeff. you are right, imo. the value of something is whatever the particular person holds it at in his or her own heart. my uncle recalls those years of the 61-65 drag years, 421 catalinas,wedge mopars,ford thunderbolts,z11's. the z11 is one of the most awesome cars ever built to some people and to others it doesn't hold the same appreciation, it was "before" their time they just don't realize the significance of the cars of that era. to me they are all great, i love em all.by no means should anyone downplay the beauty and craftsmanship of the vintage alfas,ferraris,porsche, bugatti, or other cars of that breed.yes,it is like a rollercoaster, right now the muscle cars are at the top.
IMHO

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

OK so who's Snakebite 500? And congrars to Him (or Her).

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Hey listen, even the "out of favor oldies" like Packards and LaSalles are still trading at high 6 figure prices. Somebody still likes those cars and is willing to pay what it takes to buy 'em. Anyone who puts all his $$ into one thing (like only musclecars) or one bond fund for investment purposes is asking for trouble. We all know that you have to diversify: LS6s, 'Vettes, Hemis, Shelbys.......etc.

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Finally someone that understands investing...It is really funny how some on here can completely miss a point...If you re-read my post you will find that I appreciate the cars, but I don't think the prices that you guys (again show me 3 Yenko Camaros in the last year that didn't go to people here) are paying borders on stupid...If they weren't being sold or traded to only "friends" and guys on here then I'd appreciate the value..I really don't care if you guys over speculate, it is after all your money..It is interesting though how it seems to me that it is only the "supercars," that are being grossly over priced...might be a reason for that..hmmm

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/Charley.gif Musclecars are on their way out. That’s why I’m putting my money into big-eared cats.

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

bill goldberg bought one last year, i don't think he's a member here.

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Now there's a genius! (Don't tell him I said that https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif)
That's it, I'm selling my Yenko Deuce for $150k and buying pork rinds!

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Its seems a spin has been put on some comments made here.I dont think Greg C or anyone else has said these cars will be worthless and to hurry and have a fire sale..I also agree with a few statements that the cars that will never suffer are the ultra low production and massive horsepower ZL1s,Hemi cuda and Ls6 converts...If however you dont think this market will suffer if interest rates rise a few points,maybe you need to enroll in a few economic courses at a local college...

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

I think you are assuming that people treat these as investments...and I don't think that is the case.If interest rises a whole lot of things will suffer...what's the point ? Yountto ...got any Pontiac stuff ?

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

I think that a lot of people do treat them like investments, but 'short term' investments. Once they see that the DJIA is back, they will put their money there.

Over the long term, yes the muscle cars have gradually increased in value. However, they are very poor investments, comparitively speaking to Wall Street. For example, if you bought a Yenko Deuce in '70 for it's $4400 sticker price, and kept it real nice, it might bring around $65-80k today. If you had invested that $4400 in an average fund that gave you a 35 year avge ROR of 12%, compounded monthly, you would have approximately $290k today!

So, if you are in it for the long term, it doesn't matter what they are worth in dollars because the real rate of return is your personal enjoyment https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

I get a lot of emails and calls asking to buy cars. It is rarity/desirability of a car combined with supply and demand. For example right now there are 2 or 3 ultra-wealthy collectors trying to buy a 71 Hemi Cuda Conv. These guys are immune to any economic down turns when it comes to what they can afford to pay. So when you have 2 or 3 more buyers, than actual cars to exist, crazy money is offered on cars. But for plentiful and less rare cars, of which there are enough to go around; they will stay at normal prices because you can always seem to find one come up for sale.

Most of you on here have see this with the 427 Yenko Novas at it's record high. It's because there are more buyers wanting one than there are 427 Yenko Novas to exist. That is when prices go sky high. I feel LS6 Convertibles are currently way under-priced, based on the numbers of them to exist.

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Belair if people dont treat these cars as investments and we should buy cars for enjoyment, why did you make this statement yesterday ? Whats wrong with buying a "european clunker" if its what you enjoy,then????......QUOTE "I hope the wealthy younger generation wises up...you keep buying those european high dollar clunkers and you aren't going to be wealthy long !!!Talk about depreciation...buy an "esses" whatever that is (i'm old) now for 80k and sell it for 25 in 5 years

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

"It is interesting though how it seems to me that it is only the "supercars," that are being grossly over priced...might be a reason for that..hmmm" .....hmmm, maybe they bring good money because they are "Supercars". Didn't the Yenko you were bashing sell for good Money outside of this little circle ? I can also think of three ZL1's that went for big money within the last year outside of this circle.

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

It was in response to Gregs point about the young wealthy people buying esses...I don't buy my cars as an investment...it just turned out that they are looking more and more like a good one...I usually buy high and sell low ! The thread started with you posting a look and see on an LS 6 convert.Then it went into a value/vs. doc's and how a COPO is this or that and shouldn't be as valuable as they are and that they trade and get inflated by a few people and no one buys them but a few people and yadda yadda....then we went into investments...what was the point really ? I would imagine you of all people should be kind of glad that the prices are where they are...

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Price has always been about supply and demand. A premium is put on a car that has historical significance, much like your "pilot car" you are selling. I am sure you feel it is worth more do to its status. I feel the same for copo's, and low/desirable production cars. I feel you are speculating on the intent of the supercar owners which is uncalled for. At least for me this is still a hobbie, which has introduced me to some great individuals.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...arleySucks.gif

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Is the pilot car for sale ???

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Now its all starting to make sense... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smirk.gif

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

2 FORSALE: 1970 Chevelle LS6 "pilot car" — Virginia 02/24/2004 — Details
I'm listing my green 1970 LS6 chevelle "pilot car" for sale. It is a matching numbered (engine and all accessories (carb, wp, manifolds, dist, etc.), trans, rear), fully documented car. The car has 2 buildsheets (both showing the "pilot status"), a POP, original owner info.& zone rep info (can call both and discuss), and a letter from Jim Mattison attesting to the "pilot status." The car is very highly optioned, was cosmetically restored in 1995. Car has CI, gauges, buckets, tilt, cushion grip,p/s,rear defroster,am/fm stero, posi,etc. Picures avaiable upon request. If you are a tire kicker don't waste my time..If you want info. call me...not some "guru," that hasn't seen the car...Phone is 800-669-5834 or 804-314-7732 or 804-932-8547..This is an investment that you can drive and enjoy, so no BS'ers..If you want a "run of the mill" LS6 look elsewhere...This is the only "pilot car" LS6 found to date and it IS the earliest (good possibity the FIRST production LS6)car to date as well..

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Man you guys really "read" into things...guess that is a way to discredit my opinion or viewpoint since I differ from some of you...Guess since I hang out at Langley or Peary some you guys will next have me knowing where Hoffa is and who shot Kennedy (not Oswald btw...lol) Whether the "pilot car" is for sale or not has nothing to do with this discussion. I had listed it recently on another site as I'm buying a few more homes (my idea of better investments...go Donald..lol) and wanted some additional cash. Whether I sell it or not isn't procluding me from buying more property to use as investments.. I actually offered the car earlier to someone here for what amounted to the price of a SS396 L34 car as I thought they would appreciate the car, were not a specualtor, and we are good friends.

I bought the car back origianlly in 2001, and didn't pay a "specualted" price. When I bought it back it wasn't for any other reason than I liked it..It wasn't about the money, and I would have paid substantially more money becasue I believe in the car and know it well..The point is I'm just like everyone else..I'm not going to "give it away" and I expect "fair market" value.. However I'm not specualting that this car will always be worth the current prices, nor do I care..It isn't an investment to me..whether short term or long term..The reality though is I bought a car based on my personal likes, BUT since others do perceive these things to be great investments I bought one that is a "no excuses" car..to maximize that asspect of this hobby..I have commerical and residental real estate for investments, along with stocks, bonds, etc.

I personally think it is funny that some of you guys get so worked up over this thread..If it wasn't in the back of your mind (the investment asspect or how overly inflated some cars are), you wouldn't be trying to defend these cars the way you are..You would just realize it is my opinion...

Whether the Yenko that I posted about earlier sells for good money or not is a matter of opinion at this point..My personal opinion is it sold for that much money, probably because there was a naive buyer and less than full disclosure. Charley if you feel it is still work 150k..then buy it and put it up here for others to see..the same goes for anyone else...I'm a Marine and I'm not into a lot of "talk," let's see some action..If you guys feel that these cars are going up all the time..then someone call Mark H. and pay him 325k for the Yenko chevelle..Better yet Mark list the car for 275K at B/J next year or put it in another auction if it sells 9bonafide sale to someone other than ######., ######, or one of the gang..)then I'll admit my opinion was incorrect..I appreciate you guys abililty to pay these amounts and more power to you if you sell them..Just don't get steamed up because I don't have the same opinion on these cars...

BTW.."essee's are Escalades...SUV's are very popular at least here in the "dirty south.."lol

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Belair, Ok then,i will make it short..I have a problem with cars that have "joes a good guy", "Tim judged it",and "BOB put gas in it in 1977" as "documenting" a car.Its done more on this site than ANYWHERE else.Probably because theres not alot of documentation available on these cars like buildsheets etc..The "supercars" are usually mentioned because thats what this site is about more than any other car .I dont specifically have ANY problem with copos [and im currently in the market for one],other than i wouldnt own one that wasnt canada documented[my personal preference]unless it was priced as a well done clone[again my personal preference]. ...After watching the Ebay ls6 gain momentum in acceptability because of the ebay bidding list and one persons opinion,i brought up the fact that now that there were members here bidding on it,everyone jumped on the "its an original car" bandwagon,when for the last year it was for sale not nary a word was said.I guess now that the car went elsewhere we can talk about how worthless the ls6s are again.....Can you imagine how many more 435 67 corvettes would be made"legitimate" if the NCRS started "documenting" cars based on a judges opinion and a Zora Duntov signed glove box??]?????? Simply put,you cant campaign a car as 100% legit UNLESS you have factory legitimate paperwork or in the case of the ZL1s,the vin #,and that will always be the universal litmus test...On another note ..On dreamcar garage, in between the "yenko chevelles and camaros are 150k and novas 300k",didnt i hear an "although not as desirable as an Ls6 convertible" in that sentence correct me if i am wrong

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Steve

No offense, as I thought we were friends (at least through the phone/internet), but why post the ad for sale?? What difference does it make?? We are discussing opinions here, and mine and yours differ..that is all..why try to read into something?? The 2 have nothing to do with each other...

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

Something's fishy here...
Oh, it's just me, & my heads spinnin https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smirk.gif

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

[ QUOTE ]
didn't pay a "specualted" price.

[/ QUOTE ]Are you going to sell it cheap !!! since you didn't pay up for it...this is interesting news that it's for sale ! Yountto..I wouldn't buy one that was presented as that either. But the car you will accept is going to cost a lot of money.Even one of those well restored clones may have some overpriced rare parts on them that the owner may want to recoup..keep looking. Kind of a strange thread and to tell you the truth I had a feeling the pilot car would be for sale...I hope you find one of those young whipper snappers that drive esses to pay up for it Greg. !! I never heard an Escalade called an ess...I like those...with 22's on em !

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

I only used your car as an example, because it validated my point " cars with historical significance are at a premium". Nothing more should be read into it. No problem here Greg...

Re: 1970 Ls6 Convertible
 

I normally don't step into these threads because I don't know any of you and don't want to step on anyones toes.

But, this thread seems to be discussing the kind of problem lots of people would like to have... which one and how much, how many, documented, etc...

I for one would love to have a COPO, Yenko, LS6 Conv, L89 Conv, Motion, etc... and I believe that they are worth a great deal of money. Can I justify that kind of money to my wife and family? Probably not. (If someone wants to sell one that needs a good "no resale" home at a below market price please e-mail me https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif)

Do some people use them as investments? Yes. Do most people that own them enjoy them? Yes.

The bottom line is a car, or anything else for that matter, is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Those with Champaign wishes and Caviar dreams will be able to own some of the greatest cars ever made is America, while those of us with a Miller and Steak will watch from behind the wheels of our SS Chevelles, Camaros, Novas, etc...(also great American made classics). https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif

Hope that I didn't ruffle too many feathers. This hobby should NEVER be about the "haves" versus the "have nots". In the end, we're all car guys that can hopefully appreciate each others rides without too much envy. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Blair