Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

You might get more respect (?) if we knew your name not just your handle. There is a place to post it in your profile. If you choose to remain anonymous, expect nothing.

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

Mike, I wont use this forum as a method of personal attacks, I sent you a PM to explain my position.
Thanks,
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

Being in the healthcare industry makes me chuckle about the reference comparing a car body to the human body. When a heart transplant patient receives a new heart, he isn't included in the family lineage of the donor is he? Maybe someday some donor recepient will sue for inheritance because he is a part of the family tree (in his opinion).

Just because a vin tag or oe stamped block is put in a new body, does not make it the car it is supposed to appear as. The original one is dead and hopefully buried. Unless of course you believe in reincarnation! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

Stop the hypocricy!
 

I think it is extremely hypocritical for a person to adamantly say that a rebody is a terrible thing yet whole heartedly support changing every body panel on the car. The idea that the same guys who turn up their noses at a rebody would happily buy a car with almost nothing original left of the body.

Now I could understand if a person were to think a car with all original sheet metal was fine and acceptable and the unacceptable was a car with any non original sheet metal.

What is the difference between a car with new fenders, hood, floors, quarters, trunk and maybe repair around the windshield and rear window and a car that has been rebodied?

You have to think one way or another: non original sheet metal is fine or it isnt.

What's next? Will the worth of a collector car be based on the percentage of original sheet metal? 'That Yenko has 64% of it's original sheet metal so it's worth more than the one with 48% of it's original sheet metal'.......

Re: Stop the hypocricy!
 

It's not a matter of hypocricy at all...

"What is the difference between a car with new fenders, hood, floors, quarters, trunk and maybe repair around the windshield and rear window and a car that has been rebodied? "

Simple: It is LEGAL to change out body panels. It is ILLEGAL to rebody a vehicle. Choose the latter and be prepared to face the consequences should a future purchaser find out about the rebody. And it makes no difference if you tell the next subsequent buyer that you rebodied a car. The felony is committed by the person who tampered with the vehicles VIN. Subsequent owners are at risk of losing the vehicle despite not having been party to the actual tampering since ignorance of the felony is not acceptable in court. Don't believe me? Ask the the guy who lost his Black '69 L78 Nova in Ontario a few years ago because a previous owner rebodied the car. I know there were law suits involved but do not know the outcome.

What I find shocking is that so many owners openly talk about their vehicles being rebodied. I had a guy tell me about his '69 COPO Chevelle a few years ago and another fellow called me about 6 months ago trying to sell his rebodied '67 Z-28. What part of ILLEGAL don't these guys understand?

And what about all those beautiful rust free Canadian cars with "GM Canada documentation" that everyone is so hot about? Give me a break, I owned over 20 early Camaros in the mid '70's and every one of them needed rust repair big time. Also know that many a "rust free shell" has crossed the border into the great white North. Buyer beware...

Original vs Correct,, New body Acceptable?
 

Mark, As I stated repeatedly, I am not in favor of a rebody, I am just going back and forth with the what ifs. A rebody is legal if you are doing it without tampering with the VINS, example, the entire body is replaced with the exception of the firewall cowl area, or as stated by someone else earlier that had changed the dash and had legal supervision whild doing so. It is illegal to tamper vin a vin for obvious reasons, but it is not illegal to replace a cars body.Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Original vs Correct,, New body Acceptable?
 

Motown, I'm not making my comments to you or anyone else in particular - just stating my thoughts on the matter. As for a rebody being legal from the cowl back - not in Ontario! I bought a wrecked 67 RS/SS a few years ago and it came with another stripped rust free shell - both tags and titles came with the cars. The seller gave me the story about having the police or Ministry of Transport, Ontario "supervise" the VIN removal and reinstallation on the new shell. I called the MTO and the OPP and they told me that this was not true and that the only way to do this was to have a salvage title issued for the "new" combined vehicle. I took the liberty to ask about the practice of changing out the firewall and cowl pieces that so many do up here and I was told that this was ILLEGAL because the donor shell was, and I quote, "more substantial" than the cowl piece. I was left with the impression that it is ok to back half a car, but that's it.

BTW Motown, I've sent you two private emails recently with no reply. Doesn't the address listed in your profile work?

Re: Original vs Correct,, New body Acceptable?
 

Mark, I cant seem to send you a PM, try [email protected],
Thanks,
Motown

Re: Original vs Correct,, New body Acceptable?
 

I don't think anyone is aiming their comments at anyone in particular, I think it's a good discussion with people expressing their own views. I'm sure there are legal repercussions regarding a rebody where the VIN is actually tampered with. I'm not an expert on that so I can't clarify. But I definitely think there is a big difference between a rebody(using another car's shell) and replacing body panels on the actual car in question. If you say that replacing body panels is not acceptable, then the only legit cars out there are the ones that were never driven and still have their original metal and paint. Replacing body panels is an accepted form of automobile repair, regardless if it's a muscle car or a Honda Accord. A car that has all its original metal and paint is going to be worth more to a certain group of people and the car that has had new panels and new paint is going to be worth more to another group of people. To each his own and I would love to own an original unrestored car, an original restored car and a modern high tech street car. Make them all 69 Camaros though! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Original vs Correct,, New body Acceptable?
 

69ssrs350;
Many of us are just following along with the discussion because we have talked about this before. So, we find it interesting to see what the latest round of opinions are. It's a tough topic, and I think the conclusions will be similar to the last time we covered this area.

I think I remember the line was crossed when somebody other than GM put some stamps into a gangholder, and started hitting panels or engine items.

Re: Original vs Correct,, New body Acceptable?
 

I think there's a couple of reasons you're seeing less than full participation on this topic. Because its obviously a topic everyone has an opinion on, so I know people are thinking, if not always posting.

As its been said the topic has been explored before, and many don't wish to re-tread their views. Another very valid point was brought up by COPO PETE, who apparently hasn't restamped any of his cars for fear of shedding doubt on his other cars. The same is true for opinions, I believe. If a prominent member of this board decided to advocate any sort of rebody-ing activity, even though he chose not to collect those cars, the integrity of his vehicles would likely come into doubt, so there is little to gain (few opinions are going to be swayed), and quite a bit to lose (whether its $$ value or perceived "integrity" of their collection).

For others, like me, its kind of a professional decision. Since I work in the business of collector cars, its not fair to my employer to have my opinions color the perception of his decade-old business, which he built without me. I chimed in last time, and didn't think it was fair to him after I reflected on it. Again, this emotional issue ends up with issues of integrity and perception.

And while I can understand how many have attempted to use the law to lend structure to this issue, I believe its to little avail. Most of us who have had to deal with out of state inspections and unusual registration scenarios know that there is no hard and fast rule to be found. 90% of the time its the discretion of whatever inspector you come up against, and their common sense, knowledge of the hobby, and whether they had a fight with their spouse the night before and want you to pay for it. Most of the opinions of this thread have been expressed with more clarity than the interpretations of laws I have seen from the state and federal law enforcement personnel. (MY OPINION. Again, my employer does it all by the book, even when they penalize him for trying to play fair, and when he has to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to chase his own tail. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gif[/img] )

Re: Original vs Correct,, New body Acceptable?
 

I have built alot of chevy trucks with southern cabs and was always told by state law enforcement to attach the old VIN to the new cab. Just my $ .02 's

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

https://www.asc.wpafb.af.mil/museum/

Re: Original vs Correct,, New body Acceptable?
 

Marlin, I submit that there are much more $ignificant reasons why they are not participating in this thread. Truth always prevails.

Re: Original vs Correct,, New body Acceptable?
 

Geez! Stop already, all your whining is gonna make you a bad drunk.

Most everybody knows, 'buyer beware', and those cars that are suspected of being rebodies are verbally communicated to those that ask questions before buying. If you don't ask questions, do your homework, and sometimes pay a professional to go look before you lay out the big cash, then you live with the consequences.

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

IT IS JUST A NUMBER YOU ARE JUST A NUMBER IF YOU WANT TO FIND THAT OUT JUST PHONE THE GOVERMENT IF YOU HAVE A NICE CAR AND YOUR NOT TRYING TO RIP SOME BODY OFF FOR A LOT OF MONEY I HAVE BEEN THIER IT COST ME A LOT JUST CLEAR MY NAME:D I WAS SOLD A CAR I DID NOT CHECK OUT THE DEAL WAS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE I SHOUD HAVE KNOWN BETTER

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

I was just wondering just how many of us actually KNOW the total history of the cars we own? How would some of us feel if we found out that the pristine Z-28 had actually been in a fender bender because someone loanded the car to his sister one night and the front fender was replaced??? It would be something that would humble the best of us I would think.

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

neet topic, I do change body panels and bodies for a living!
I have either owned a bodyshop or worked in one for the last
25-30 yrs-mostly european stuff, domestic for fun! I can buy a new body from porsche, complete fenders and all. We have talked customers into doing this based on. putting ourselves in a position of the next collision!safety! we take incredible pride in our skills-but-we can't duplicate a
factory weld from porsche or mercedes! period! is ours stronger or weaker? Yes there are procedures but we don't crash test our work-do we....the idea of replacing the body on the car when done ethically/not changing options or modifying the vin is legal and is being done on a day to day schedule. Is it o.k. to change the body on your #s matching car. All i know is i wouldn't be caught dead in a
car that has had 1000's of factory welds replaced vs a rebody.(no body like a factory body). when did the z-28 going down the assembly line get its soul/i.d./etc.?
when the engine and trans went in or when the dealer ordered
the car? How was the body of the 6cyl car different from the z-28? its not-the legal document is the true value, and to car collectors, buyer beware. hire a professional to view the car, do your research, and have fun with these things.

rob
67 gto conv.
68 firebird 400
68 daytona ss chevelle
70 grand prix sj HO

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

Rob, it wouldnt bother you if you found out your GTO body was actually a 326 Lemans body that someone had removed all the VIN numbers and GTO related parts and placed them on it?
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?
 

69RSSS350.... Are you really trying to say that anybody not voicing their opinion on this subject is into Rebodies ? I am sure that is what you are trying to Imply. That is one of the Dumber comments I have heard on this Board. You seem to consistently have a habit of insulting People and then saying that is not what you meant.