Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

Wow! Now that's some analysis, special thanks [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I guess the LCA and LSA can be the same at 106. Not sure on the idle or the vaccuum problem though, the car has good brakes even with repeated stops at quick intervals. I don't normally check vaccuum, but I did with mine because I was using it to set the mixture screws (?). I had a steady 18+ inches of vaccuum, and idle is a little high but relatively smooth.

As for being a dog on the low end, I can't really tell because this is the only deuce I have driven - and quite frankly is the fastest car I have ever owned. So, I don't know that I can compare it to anything else. I think the low end is pretty good, but then again it doesn't take much to blow the whitewalls off!

I did assemble the engine myself, basically because I wanted to do everything that I possibly could. I installed the cam per the mfg instructions, ie; straight up. I had read that the Comp cams have 5 degrees of advance 'ground in'? It didn't mean much to me at the time, all I was checking for was PTVC - which turned out fine at well over 100 thous./in. Might I have missed something during the installation?

Thanks in advance for any and all feedback, the possibility of me putting in the 182 is increasing.

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

Marlin, The valve adjustment determines some low end power and different vacuum. It also can be a smoother or rougher idle with different settings. You are probably getting yourself a little confused with all these numbers. This is why I asked you a week or so ago if you had any vacuum. Cam duration determines vacuum. It depends on how long the cam stays open. You are so close to Pete. He is expecting to see you and your car.Just go over or call and ask him. Good luck! Sam

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

Rob;
I've been thinking about this, but not totally sure what 'tight' means. Are you referring to the timing of when both valves are open being to little, thereby increasing cylinder pressure?

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

M:

Lobe Seperation Angle is simply a measurement of the angle, formed from the centerlines of the intake lobe and the exhaust lobe, measured in degrees of cam rotation. [FYI, LCA is measured in degrees of crankshaft rotation.]

Just imagine 2 imaginary lines, one extending from the centerline of the intake lobe, the other extending from the centerline of the exhaust lobe. The amount of camshaft rotation (in degrees) that it takes for the centerlines to pass the same specified point is the LSA.

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/37323-CAM.jpg

So, a "tight" angle, or smaller LSA (normally 100-112) will have MORE valve overlap, meaning a lopey idle, poor vacuum quality, and the torque peak will move up the rpm range...think "top end" cam. Likewise, a "wider" LSA (112-120) will have less overlap, thus trapping more of the charge in the cylinder at low engine speeds, and will provide a better vacuum signal, and have a tame "lope" to it's idle...think "low or mid range" cam.

But, as Sam eluded to above, their are a few other "variables" provided by the cam that can influence how a cam reacts.

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

Rob;
That's the answer I was looking for! Thanks.
I'm starting to think about trying the car at the track this year with this cam, and sticking a 182 cam over the winter and then run it again next spring.

I was trying to get more low end, off idle power and driveability with the cam change not upper RPM power. With the original manifolds, smog stuff and orig. exhaust with resonators - this engine will have trouble even reaching the upper RPM's!!

Oh well, it's not irreversable [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

Even though you have an LSA of 106 degree (very tight) you can still off set it by advancing the cam. You are closing the intake valve very early if you still have good vacuum. Also,.........Your ramp speeds on the cam are probably very slow on the opening side as to some what defuse some of the duration. The lift also has a lot to do with duration as the smaller the lobes with the same angles of ramp the smaller overlap.


JIM [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif[/img]

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

Thanks Jim for the additional explanation, I have to think about what you typed for a little bit. I'll probably have some more questions down the road!

I learned something else the other night, don't pick on a Toyota Supra Twin Turbo! Pretty quick little car in it's stock form, has two more gears compared to the Yenko, would have left me in the dust past 4th [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

Marlin, Going to Pottstown tomorrow nite? Big Rod Run and show in town. May be taking Coopers 440-6pack super bee. (Lift off hood car) Should be fun. (215)723-1600 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] Sam

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

Marlin,

The new cars go fast in a different way that's for sure. With all the over drives they can build a motor a little more differently "smaller cubes" so it can efficently work in a smaller power band using gearing to take care of the weaknesses. The stuff sure does last a long time and fly using the modern fuel systems.

JIM [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]

I guess what I'm saying in the above thread is that overlap is as big of a component as duration for a rough idle. Ramp speeds will help determine overlap. Sorry for the confussion.

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

Hey Pete;
I was there! So was 'SYCIWISH' and some guys from the Nova board, show was very good and the weather was perfect. I don't remember seeing the 6pak car though (?)

What's Dennis' situation? I've been wondering, send me a PM with an update [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

Well, it looks like Friday night might be finally be a track night! Thanks to all who have helped me get the Yenko Deuce tuned a little better - now to put my foot where my mouth is [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I'm hoping for 13's, but as long as I have some fun! I have Pete's setup in the carb, Casey's setup on the timing, just have to pump up the tires and lay down some tracks to figure out the air pressure. I'm hoping for at least two runs, one as a baseline, another with the spring clamps installed to see what impact they have on the 60'.

Any final advice?

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

quote:Any final advice ?

Put a beautiful naked woman waiting at the finish line for the winner [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

Keep the engine cool? You can ice the manifold and use your garden sprayer to mist the radiator. Be careful and good luck! Sam [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

Probably going to get myself in trouble but here goes!! Why all the time and energy spent on cam stuff when the poor thing is trying to breathe through those restrictive manifolds and that tiny 2" exhaust!! It seems that the carb size was more than adequate but the engineering of the exhaust sucked. Why worry so much about lobe and duration if it can't BREATHE. I understand the desire to keep it stock but seems like it would be more fun to open it up. Marlin, if you get into the 13's with stock manifolds and exhaust on polyglas you are THE MAN!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img] I was hoping for 14's at the reunion. I decided to cheat and am putting on a 2 1/2 Flowmaster system with headers. (Keeping all the stock stuff) Jim [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] By the way GOOD LUCK and have FUN!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

sc69,
Just started reading this post and was floored when you mentioned Pete's Automotive in Pottstown. He just did the block, heads and crank for my newly found "W" motor (409). He came recommended by a good friend, Ronnie Evans, who runs the '62 Wildfire car. He's the only guy I felt I could trust with my engine. Pete's forte is head work.
Verne.

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong ............
 

Above all, HAVE FUN. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

Hi Verne, Have known Pete for 30 years. Did all my motors, rears and transmission. Goes back to the old days. Used to go to the races with him and Ronnie Hildebrandt. The (Mother Nature) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img] 1957 chevy 2 door wagon was national record holder in, I believe 1976 or so. (G/MP) We had a lot of fun, used to tow the race car with a hearse. I told Ronnie Evans about using Pete years ago. Good luck with the 09. Hope to see you at maybe the Vargo Reunion. Sam

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

I plan on being there!
See if you can drag Pete along. (I don't think he gets out much) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

I bug him to go with me to most places. He wants to go and then backs out. I complain to his wife Mary about him all the time! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

Wear a helmet, carry a fire extinguiser, have a trailer on standby, and don't miss any powershifts. Schonye [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img]

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

A rev limiter is not a bad idea on 4sp cars. You can get them built in on some electronic conversions like Crane unit. In the old days the stock dia clutchs used to stick to the floor on hi rpm shifts sometimes. The stock Hurst shifters were not too bad but the Muncie shifter was junk for racing. A missed gear or stuck clutch can send a solid lifter engine rpm into stratosphere. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

Been there, done that.Its really neat when that clutch lets loose and it feels like its coming thru the dash. And muncie shifters usually went in the same garbage can as air pollution pumps, and stock exahaust manifolds. Schonye [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

[ QUOTE ]
And muncie shifters usually went in the same garbage can as air pollution pumps, and stock exahaust manifolds. Schonye [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
And now we're paying stupid amounts of cash to get the stuff back!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

Rob

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

What a fun night at the dragstrip with the Yenko Deuce!!!!!!!

I didn't get out of work early, but I managed to get there by 6'ish, got through tech just fine, and got right into the staging lanes - first run was around 7:15, Temp was around 84+, RH was 81%, barometer was 29'ish, elevation was something like 2050'.

I didn't have a chance to pump up the tires, so the rears were 28 and 26! No spring clamps installed, and I left the air cleaner on.

I was so concerned with not rolling through the lights, (I never raced with a 4speed before) that I wasn't concentrating on the lights coming down! Needless to say I slept at the tree! I hit the tires at ~~ 2k rpm - way wrong! I smoked the tires for at least the first 20-30 feet - even after peddling it. My 60' was 2.49, 1/4 was 15.03 at 93+mph = bad run, but what a blast! I got right back in line.

The second run was two hours later since someone went off the end of the track at 160+mph when his chute got caught in his wheelie bars. I hit the tires at 1500 rpm this time, which was better - just a little bog, little chirp, then off we went! My 60' was 2.20, 1/4 was 14.6x at 94+ mph - better, but a lot to gain yet. I then got right back into line, if your in by 9:30 you get to run even though they need to stop by 10.

The third run was interesting, when I went to spin the tires to warm them a little, they didn't spin! It just hooked, so I went into the staging beams - it was now 10:20! This time I feathered the clutch off the line at 1500, meanwhile constantly increasing the rpm's. No bog, no chirp - gave me my best 60' at 2.17. I don't know if that is good or not, but it felt a lot better. My 1/4 was 14.5 at 95+ mph, it was nice to end on a high note - albeit, not very high, but a ton of fun.

It's possible that I was shifting too early, I hit the next gear when I thought I was at 6k, even though the shift light didn't come on, I checked my recall and I did hit 6100 at least once - so, maybe I was shifting too early.

I can't make it to the reunion, maybe I can go to the track this Friday night - we'll see. I found out where the air line is, so this time I will play with the air pressures some more.

Fun time, saw Frank Radake's son there for the NMCA event the next day - small world!

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif[/img] Can't really complain about that! At 95 mph you are in the 13's at that rate. Remember it takes more than 1 or 2 nites to get leaving the line correctly. These cars with the tires and leaned out carb didn't do much better than that in the old days. Good job! Sam

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

Way To Go Marlin!
Those times seem respectable for your first time out.
Stupid question,but was your Gas tank Completely Full?
I plan to take my Chevelle to the track someday too,so I enjoy hearing about another Pop his Cherry at the Dragstrip. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

Nice runs Marlin. Most importantly, you had fun. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

Congrats, M! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img] I bet the Nova got LOTS of looks! And well deserved looks at that!

So, you jonesin' to go back yet? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

Thats really cool Marlin! It sounds like you are easily headed for the 13's! It took me way more than 3 runs to post a respectable time. Keep trying! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

Marlin.... Your 2.1 60' is real good. I was always happy if I could get that with my Nova. It's is very important you shift that car a 6000 rpm. That is the cars sweet spot. Keep the total timing at 38 as any more will just slow it down. Any chance you'll be at the Pure Stock Drags this year??????????
Peter

Re: Pure Stock Drag Racing tips & tricks
 

Marlin,
Years ago I had a BB 69 Nova I pounded the streets with, I had problems with a straight launch, after trying many different cures several things worked well and cured the problem. I fixed the wheel hop by adjusting the pinion angle which worked best between four to six degrees. I managed to get a straight launch by adding a extra leaf to the right side of the rear. That side always squats down farther then the left, I took the idea from a 69 Hemi Charger RT I had owned that came that way from the factory. If you want to retain stock appearence you can get a stonger set of leafs for the right side that look nearly the same as stock, it will make the car ride a bit different during normal operation but makes a world of difference with a good launch. I dont think this is needed running stock polyglass, but if you ever bolt on some weekend traction you could have an extra right spring set and U-bolts ready to go on. Now dont laugh, but a good old set of cable operated cut outs on the exhaust dont hurt either. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Another old street trick is to run your windshield washer hoses to the front of your rear inner fender wells and put bleach in the washer bucket. These ideas may not be for a original Deuce as yours, but if you ever build a ground pounder for the street they come in handy. Some might say it is cheating, but I have never seen a rule book for street racing. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img] The body mounts Pete mentioned is a big plus, also a cable tie down or solid motor mount on the drivers side also helps to put the torque to the rear wheels without losing a lot along the way with twisting and body motions first. The 292 angle plug Chevy heads mentioned work well while maintaining a stock appearance, not only are the plugs angled but they have no heat riser channel which makes for even exhaust flow. I have a set of these heads I may part with. Just buying the gaskets that block the heat riser to the intake will help. While it wont cure the exhaust flow being even, it will keep the air/fuel mixture a cooler temperature which does help. Removing the engine cooling fan and running an electric gives more power as your engine works less not turning the fan. For a street driven car you can set up a quick install electric fan for weekend fun, tie staps and a couple of electrical connections and youre in business. Coiling your fuel line through a coffee can packed with dry ice helps to keep your fuel cool, this makes a noticable difference and is something else that can be set up with a couple of quick connect fittings and some tie staps. Having these nifty tricks ready to install it only takes a few hours to prep a car for drag duty, then a couple of hours back to stock apperance. Just remember, no matter what, it's never fast enough and it can always go faster! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

General LT-1 Information
 

Marlin,

First time in this particular section of the forum... Interesting information posted here... Have to check in here more often!

I have a lot of data that you might be interested in. I have always been an early LT-1 nut although the ones that I've owned have always been installed in Corvettes, not Novas. Still, there are many similarities between the two so I think that I might have something useful for you.

First off, I agree with Pete... Your current camshaft is overkill and may actually be costing you some power. I've flow tested several sets of "186" castings and can tell you that even with a great three angle valve job, an unported "186" head starts to run out of flow around .450" lift on the intake port and .475" on the exhaust (compare this to the lift figures of .458" and .485"... the engineers knew what they were doing). There is absolutely no need to lift the valve any higher on an unported head... There just isn't any gain in flow to be had through the intake or exhaust ports.

Regarding the camshaft itself, the LT-1 cam has been discontinued for about a year now. Prior to that, Crane made these under license for GM, so what you were actually getting was a Crane camshaft in GM packaging. Regardless, they were absolutely identical to the original. I had two original LT-1 cams (the first removed from a 1970 Corvette at 1,600 miles, the other at 67,000 miles) as well as a new Crane manufactured GM cam checked on a Cam Doctor at Jere Stahl's shop in York, PA. With the exception of some wear related lift reduction on the 67,000 mile cam (as you would expect), there were no differences in the acceleration or lift curves. The exhaust lobe is identical to exhaust on the old "30-30" cam, but the intake is quite a bit different and accelerates off the base circle at a much faster rate (GM was able to do this because of the use of screw in rocker studs)... There is also quite a bit of overlap designed into the camshaft to make it work with the stock exhaust manifolds... There was a considerable amount of engineering work put into the LT-1 engine.

If you send me your new address Marlin, I will be happy to forward copies of the "186" flow data, the camshaft plots/data as well as some tuning/engineering data that was offered up on another forum by Duke Williams and John Hinckley.

Regards,

Stan Falenski

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Great info, Stan! You really should stop by more often! If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to check out the LT-1 info you have...I'd gladly reimburse you for your time! And while you're at it, send Pete a copy to get him back into "small block mode". Then, maybe he'll get that silver Nova of his out and go find a certain Green W-31...(hi Casey!)

So, got any of that "hi-tech" info on any big block stuff? Like maybe some flow numbers? Or how about some cam doctor info on the 143 unit?

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

One of the Corvette magazines this month did some flow teasting on original Chevy alu head vs modern aftermarket alu head. Big difference in flow numbers.

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Rob,

I'd be happy to send the information along to you and Pete as well... Just let me know where to send it!

I always got a real kick following the "pure stock" threads over on the Buick board... I didn't realize that similar threads existed here. I will definitely check in here from now on.

As far as "143" information, that's next. I currently have three big block cars that use that camshaft and I'm quite interested in getting some baseline data before proceding any further on the restoration process(es) for those cars. I have to track down a known, original "143" camshaft or two... When I do, I'll run them out to Jere Stahl's shop and have him do his thing. He actually has two different camshaft checking devices... The previously mentioned Cam Doctor as well as one of his own design that is much more precise (overkill for what I want done). In any case, when I eventually get the info back, I'll let you know.

Regards,

Stan Falenski

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Stan:

I may have a couple of original "143" cams that came out of running (well!) engines...would you be interested in checking them out?

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Stan,
I'll definitely take you up on your offer, and PM you my address. What you said is very interesting, and supports what the others have said.

So, is Crane still offering the blueprinted LT1 cam?

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Hey Marlin, I bet the Crane cam in my Z/28 is probably the same one they offer for the LT1. What do you think? Standardized Crane spec job. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img] Sam

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

There's a lengthy and informative discussion on the 30/30 cam etc. on the NCRS board under "302 Chevy".

Re: General LT-1 Information
 

Hey, Marlin: Is THIS your card?! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

Sam: that cam card above is for the Crane blueprinted LT-1 cam, and became GM's replacement (service) cam after the 3849346 cam was discontinued in December of '71 (info via NCRS). So, it was essentially GM who "standardized" the cams before Crane ever came along. But, don't worry, they have PLENTY of different blueprint grinds for everyone!