One look at the spring break pics makes me believe the answer is no. The curve on the US looks almost like Italys. Not good.

And DeSantis (governor of FL) STILL will not order all FL beaches closed other than in Broward and Palm Beach counties. He has left it to local governments to make their own decisions. So what happened? Panama City says they are open for business! All beaches open! All restaurants and nightly entertainment open! Come to Panama City!

Unbelievable.

I don’t think Lee is fear mongering. Hell, just turn your television on. There’s plenty of that on there. I think Lee is stating facts. Everything that you have stated about the subject, if you read the second or third sentence, you contradict yourself from what you stated in the first sentence.

Pandemic gone in 60 days? Really?? I believe common sense would tell you it’s not going to be over in 60 days. Kudos though for wishful thinking.

If the Chinese have returned to full production after the outbreak why can’t North America? Well, ummm, has the Chinese returned to full production? If we believe what China says, that’s our first mistake, but as to why (if the Chinese have returned to full production as you say) North America will not?? Lack of common sense, that’s why. North America is stalling on total lockdowns across the States and I don’t see the US spraying everything down with bleach as we have seen China do. Actually, all I see is people running around like it’s a normal day, accept for school closings, other closings, oh and the toilet paper shortage. I don’t see a a lot of social distancing going on, but we’ll get there eventually. A little later than most countries, but trust me, we’ll get there after more lives are lost.

Lastly, it appears that you are claiming to state facts that nobody in this whole world seems to know BUT YOU and the fact that you want to argue with people that are clearly stating facts as we know them, as to what we’re being told, is ridiculous. Yes, sincerely much thanks to Lee for doing exactly that.

This world is not getting any better any time soon. It’s time we stand up and work together instead of against each other. I’m afraid that this coronavirus is going to be a huge wake up call to people just like you and others. Unfortunately, a much needed one.

AND one thing that I have learned in my lifetime, “There are those that appear to be much more intelligent when they say nothing at all 70copo!”

Many prayers to you and everyone else during this time. Stay safe!!

Lee:
First off, I don't know that I disagree with any fact you have stated. Secondly, I did not say anything about mortality rates related to COVID-19. And you are correct, I specifically stated that I was only going to mention ONE (in all caps) comparison; and that one is miniscule. I figured the post was long enough without trying to list EVERYTHING we trade for human life and health. There is no direct comparison. I was siimply stating that as a society, we make trade offs for human life and health every day. We just don't THINK about it every day. And we don't want to discuss it, because we don't want to feel that cold. I fully agree with you about cigarettes; but that is a whole other debate for another time.

I am just saying we need to balance things. Let's say you are correct, and we are only 1/20th into this, with nothing to look forward to for another 19 months (apologize if you had a different period of time targeted for your 50 mile mark... but I really don't know) but more of shutting everything down until the whole country is on lock down. Personally, I believe 19 months of lockdown will create more havoc than the havoc it prevented.

I don't have a crystal ball. Is Phil correct when he says it all blows over in 60 days? I don't know. Are you correct in stating we are only 1/20th of the way through? I don't know. You guys both have a right to your opinions. I hope and pray Phil is closer to the mark than you. Just because I WANT it to work out that way doesn't mean it will.

Let's hope the Singapore and South Korea model and measure which have produced amazing results are replicated everywhere so we drastically shorten and lessen the effects and devastation. My glass is half full.

Lynn
When I read your posts I hear a view that has less panic and hysteria in it. We need more of this at every level. The more we use statistics as a weapon to create panic and major uncertainty that is a failure to properly communicate. I do believe in reality to the degree it doesn’t lead to speculation or a stretching of reality. It is clear around the country that we are starting to compete against each other instead of working together by using different forms of data on both sides.
I believe It starts with each of us having a conversation that lends itself toward the future while being realistic as to where we are at and provide reasonable solutions which by the way won’t make EVERYOne happy. We need to think about the majority however harsh that sounds.
I received a panic text today that the number of cases has doubled. I told this person well that makes sense because we are testing more, right? Should I see it that way or sound the alarm there are more reported cases?There will be more cases.

I heard today that next week will be bad for the economy because there will be more people filing for unemployment at record levels. For me that makes sense because business are shut down for others this adds to the panic and hysteria . So what should WE do? Where is the balance?

I agree Steve; as opposed to Italy, where they apparently had a perfect storm for this.

With only about 60% as many cases as in China, the actual number of deaths EXCEED those in China by about 800. Not doing something right.

I choose to get in my car or light up a cigarette. It's my choice alone. I have to accept the responsibility that I might be doing something risky both to my health and my life. Now let's expand that . . . I just walked out of a bar having had 6 hard liquor drinks (BTW - I don't drink at all). I am legally drunk. I tell myself I am OK to drive home. This is a direct comparison to the CV19 pandemic lockdown. I am acting irresponsible. I am not caring about anyone else but me. What I should do (call a taxi or friend) and what I am going to do (drive legally drunk) are two different things. It's as obvious as the nose on our faces which is the right decision.

We are just getting started on our 1000 mile trip. We are still in first gear. We are crawling along because we can't get enough people tested. The more people that get tested the faster we can shift in to 2nd, 3rd, 4th 5th and 6th. What is scaring everyone and I mean everyone . . . the CDC, WHO, the president, the public, the stock market . . . is the unknown. There are so many things about CV19 that we don't know.

The experts tell us we have no antivirals nor vaccine for CV19. The only way we can stop it is self quarantine. Some people have it and they don't even realize it because they are young and healthy. I am terrified to go out of my home into a public place. I am almost 69 and I have Lymphoma. If I get CV19 I am dead. No question about that.

I think we are both right. In 60 days we will know pretty much everything there is to know about CV19. This is not a USA problem. This is a WORLD problem. There are literally millions of the best people in medical science working on getting us answers so we know what to do, what we can use to treat CV19 until we get a vaccine which takes 12 months at the earliest.

If the news or the internet is upsetting then shut them off. Go do something else. Like Steve did - go for a ride in your car. Do SOMETHING that you enjoy and will make you happy.

Coronavirus in N.Y.: ‘Deluge’ of Cases Begins Hitting Hospitals

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/co...cid=spartandhp

Crush said: "So what should WE do? Where is the balance?"

I am not a health care expert, nor am I an economics expert. I just believe the economists (and one of my best friends is an economist) should be involved in the discussions.

I live in a small town; Guthrie (population 10,000). I office in a larger town, but still relatively small; Edmond (80,000).

Tuesday evening both City Councils met. My economist friend is on the Edmond City Council. His personal belief was that it would be a mistake to forcibly shut down the restaurants. He thought they should just scale back, take extra precautions, serve less patrons. However, there was virtually no support from the community for that position. His words to me: "I am not going to the mat for them, if they aren't going to express that preference." And they didn't. Edmond voted to shut them down, following the Oklahoma City model.
Guthrie voted to leave them open and let the public decide if they want to eat out.
BTW, the Oklahoma City model was to close all restaurants, excpet for take out or drive up service.
Guthrie has no mandatory shut down for retail. But, the local WalMart is closing each evening at 8:30 instead of being open 24 hours.

Completely shutting down factories is also overkill. Sherri and I are living life as usual for the most part OTHER THAN TAKING EXTRA CLEANING PRECAUTIONS, NOT SHAKING HANDS WITH ANYONE, AND KEEPING OUR DISTANCE. However, we monitor our temeratures every morning. If we see a spike, we are staying home. Our 25 year old came to the office to see us today. He is a bartender, and currently laid off. He is also a kidney transplant patient, and therefore more susceptible to infection. We normally hug. Today, he stayed on the other side of the room and got an "air high five". He has been trained (and actually does it) to wash his hands multiple times a day.

We had multiple clients in the office today, and I have four appointments on Monday; all have confirmed they still want to come in. We make no contact. Clients also get the "air high five". When I give them a pen for signing docs, I break open a brand new wrapped pen, squeeze it out the end, so that I never touch it. I wash my hands after every appointment, even though I have not touched a soul. Sherri washes down and sanatizes the conference table (fortunately it is glass) after every appointment.

My son in law is also a kidney transplant patient, only two years removed from surgery (on another note, I am probably the only guy in town whose wife AND daughter are both kidney donors; Sherri to Zack, our 25 year old, and my daughter Jenny, to her husband). We normally get together every two weeks for a family dinner. My son in law will skip this Thursday, just because he is comrpomised. We also have a family dinner rule: if you are sick, don't come. Send us all a text telling us you love us and miss us. That isn't anything new. We ALWAYS encourage them to stay home if sick.

These are just my personal choices. Common sense, and take extra precautions. Sherri and I went to WalMart today. I was actively looking and making certain I did not get close to anyone. We waited 10 feet away for the lady in front of us to finish checking out. We wiped down the handle on the cart before we used it. We wiped down again after leaving the check out area (self check). By far, the most likely way you are going to be infected is from breathing minute particles from someone elses cough, sneeeze, or if you are close enough, just breathing. Yes, you can get it just from touching an infected surface, but most viruses don't live long away from a host.

We also went into a local bank today. I normally don't use the handicap button to open the door, but I did today. I didn't even touch that with my hand. I used my elbow. One teller had on a mask. Our teller had on latex gloves. After transacting our business, we sanatized. BTW, I was in a hurry to get another $1000 paid to each of my grandsons, so we could quickly add $1000 to each of their Roth IRAs. Not a lot, but wanted to get into the market during the bargain days; which we will do Monday. $1000 isn't much, but they are only 7, and we estimate that each $1000 will grow to over $365,000 in 60 years. Off topic, I know.

Someone made the comment that it is time we all work together, instead of arguing. Maybe that would be a great topic for another thread. Covid-19 survival suggestions for those not ready to panic and shut the Country down.

This is likely to have typos galore. I didn't proof it.

Have a great weekend. My shoulder is well enough that I plan to do some work down at the shop and piddle on some of my beater cars.

Over 60? Here are the 30 Worst Coronavirus Mistakes

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wel...cid=spartandhp

It's a slide show. Just let the page full load then it the FULL SCREEN button

Tabu, Please read this. Read it carefully I want you to understand it.

Please pick Anything I have said on this topic in either thread and tell me why in the world I am not aloud to participate in the forum? Is that not what you are saying? Sure Looks like it to me.

Your statement pertaining to me as follows "Lastly, it appears that you are claiming to state facts that nobody in this whole world seems to know BUT YOU and the fact that you want to argue with people that are clearly stating facts as we know them, as to what we’re being told, is ridiculous" could be spoken about and applied to any of the participants who have participated in any way as everyone has an opinion, some more informed than others.


On to specifics: So Tabu:

When and where did I say the Pandemic would be gone? I never said that.

You need not say Lee was Fear mongering either as Lee made that admission all by himself at post 224 in the old thread and already apologized for it so the matter is a material fact.

Now back to your main point. "Pandemic gone in 60 days? Really??" that appears to be your summation of my previous assertion that This thing will "blow over" (those are my specific words) To me means people go back to work, church, and restaurants and life.

That does not mean the virus is gone. Saying it will be gone is silly. Hopefully we will have learned to manage it as a society by then and we can get our economy back as well at that time and most importantly understand the true lethality which will help quell the main driver of the fear and panic we are now experiencing.

What irritates me to no end however is the re posting over and over of material from external sources which serve little purpose to the topic and just expands the already stretched fear envelope and encourages people to debate and often disagree. I believe Steve told people to stop posting that kind of material here in this thread at post #23.

In conclusion I do believe your "dredge up" of parts of my previous participation may actually be an attempt to solicit a reply from me that will be then attempted to be portrayed in other replies by other participants here-as "petty and argumentative" in other words a platform to "stir the pot" and cause additional personal attacks to occur.

I hope I am wrong.

75 million Americans,4 States,ordered to stay home.CNN.

Well my daughter, son- in law are teachers and have been home with the kids for the last week. The whole family is sick, and the girls were horsing around and the middle child bumped her chin and really cut her tongue.
My granddaughter knows I'm a softy, so this morning I stopped a picked up two dozen ice pops and three large yogurt containers, and dropped it off like I was at a drive through window. They opened their front window and handed them the supplies. I'm the hero in their eyes.... like all grand parents��


Everyone is feeling different levels of anxiety. Do what you can to turn that into something useful. Many restaurants are sending food to hospital staff, several beer and moonshine distilleries are converting to producing sanitizing chemicals, give blood. We all need to be compliant with federal and state mandates so we can eradicate this virus in the most effective and efficient way possible.


Just like in forecasting storms there are many models and we won't know which is correct until we look back.


Keep yourself busy, productive and helping others always works for me. Watching the endless # of pundit on TV is somewhat counterproductive. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, but let's not beat a dead horse... no one has a crystal ball. But most here own muscle cars, start wrenching, driving them. For me it's a great stress reliever.




Pic 1 youngest upset because no yogurt
Pic 2 Pop to the rescue handing supplies through the window
Pic 3 Life is wonderful and her tongue feels great
Pic 4 Happy to have yogurt


Wish life was that simple.... maybe there's a lesson to be learned

Please explain to us to 70 copo how we are supposed to do the things you say we should be able to do: "people go back to work, church, and restaurants and life." without having antivirals or a vaccine? How can we possibly test the entire population of adults in the USA? Because that is the only way to do what you say could come true.

We separate those that test positive (self quarantine) and those that test negative (free to continue their lives). Of course those that test positive now put a massive strain on society. They either get well at home or they wind up in the hospital and the hospitals are a combination of positive and negative tested people. We could start the whole thing all over again.

This is what I really wanted to avoid . . . . . speculation. You really can't argue with proven facts. But it's so easy to get into an argument when the subject is speculation.

I have been posting articles and graphs which I hope are educating people as to the severity of the CV19 pandemic. Of course some of those articles will use sensationalism - I have no control over that. But I feel the members here are savvy enough to separate the facts from the sensationalistic use of words like "lockdown" instead of "self quarantine."

If anyone thinks I am overstepping the bounds set up by Steve, then tell him and HE will PM me and tell me to stop.

Lee,

I do not want to continue this.

In less than 2 months however we will better know how this whole emergency resolves. Let’s agree to disagree and move on.

Excellent. Unless Tabu replies we are back to regularly scheduled healthy debate and respectful sharing of opinions

All great suggestions Lee. Maybe except for #24.

Agreed

Bruce: Just me, but I think if we can continue to offer suggestions that will help minimize the impact, I am all for keeping it open.

Yes, there are issues we will just have to disagree on.

We are all still on the same side.

JMHO.

I'm done.Stay safe guys.All the best to you and yours.There are no borders on this.We're all in it together. Cheers,Bill.

NIH director: 70K coronavirus cases could be confirmed in US by end of next week


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ni...cid=spartandhp

My guess is that the numbers quoted by China are no where near accurate.

You may be right about that. Still, Italy seems to be way worse than everywhere else, at least when it comes to mortality rate.

Former CDC director: There's a long war ahead and our Covid-19 response must adapt

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/20/healt...sis/index.html

WARNING: This is a very "in your face" article that is not going to make you feel better. It comes from an expert.

Italy just called out the military to enforce the lockdown

EDIT: Lombardy the epicenter of the epidemic is where 100 soldiers will help enforce the lockdown, not all of Italy as my statement alludes to.

Great discussion gents. Too many unknowns to predict where this will go and how long it will last. So many varying opinions on the lethality and contagiousness of this disease. As previously mentioned, we can only take care of ourselves and our families. Many things, including disease, kill Americans everyday in large numbers. The press is bashing the gov’t for lack of medical supplies and equipment. No one builds a church for Easter Sunday, and the same can be said for the medical world and its supply chain. We are all playing the hands we are dealt and hope that our elected representatives make good decisions. Hopefully we will be surprised that these extreme measures pay off in the end.

On a lighter note, check out this George Carlin comedy routine regarding germs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X29l...43mUlo&index=1

Phil

:naughty:

My apologies. I responded earlier and when I sent it through, it kicked me out for some reason, hence the new user name instead of Tabu.

70copo, I read your response carefully, but still do not fully understand.

I never once stated that you were not allowed to participate in this forum. I don’t have that right, nor would I ever tell anybody that they are or are not allowed to do anything on this forum. I believe that would be up to the administrators and moderators. Not me. Once again it seems you’re are confused on your information.

Me stating “Lastly, it appears that you are claiming to state facts that nobody in this whole world seems to know but you and the fact that you want to argue with people that are clearly stating facts as we know them, as to what we’re being told” you stated that this could be spoken about and applied to any of the participants that have participated in any way as everyone has an opinion, some more informed than others. I totally agree that everyone has their opinion, as everyone should. What I don’t agree with is there are some on here more informed than others. I personally don’t think anybody on here is more informed with the information that we’ve been given. Nobody knows what is really going on at this point. At least nobody on this forum. Myself included.

I never specifically even said Lee was fear mongering. Even if he is, that his business and rightfully so. I’m aware by your post that he apologized and your willingness to send a
snap shot of it for people to view. I mean seriously, with everything going on, does anybody think that is important at this point that you show others an apology of another forum member who by my thoughts was probably not even warranted. If he did apologize, that says a lot about his character. Not important enough for everybody else to view the apology unless of course that makes you feel better for some reason.

Panademic gone in 60 days, you claim that appears to be my summation of your previous assertion, but you say now ‘blow over”. Saying it will be gone would be silly? Agreed. It won’t be gone in 60 days, nor will it be blown over. We have the stock market, businesses, jobs, etc., and people losing their life or the life/life’s of loved ones. What’s going to be blown over with all of that within 60 days? I’m not arguing. There’s nothing wrong with being hopeful but we all have to face reality sooner or later. But as far as my summation of your words, two words that don’t come to mind is concise and precise. Sorry, just my opinion, which don’t really matter.

People have every reason to be in fear and panic. Once again we’re talking about life’s and maybe even world change, which we’re currently experiencing somewhat to a degree already, at least more than most of us have ever seen in our lifetime.

I truly am sorry that you’re irritated to no end over the reposting of material from external sources. Some people really enjoy yenko.net and maybe they feel more comfortable coming to yenko.net to discuss it with friends and or acquaintances. Honestly if you’re that irritated you should stop coming on here reading it. If I go somewhere and don’t like what’s being posted, i tend to move on.

What should be irritating is someone posting that a UV light can kill the virus in 2 seconds. Can you imagine somebody reading that that was suffering with this virus or one of their loved ones and ran out to buy a UV light? False hope sucks.. Somebody came in and asked you if that was true and you came back and said it was a myth. When you published that statement, I didn’t see you ask it as a true or false question. How can anybody take you seriously? If you wanted to help, why didn’t you explain in detail what a sauna could do for a virus? Something useful. If you want to talk alternative medicine or TABU medicine, we can talk all night.

I’m not trying to stir any pot on this forum. And I don't think I’m being petty. I just don't like bullying. I just don't like people stating facts as a fact that they have no way of knowing. Opinions are different. I do like people stating what we know and the majority of that comes from the news unfortunatley and I personally don't believe 98% of the news, but right now that’s all we got and the dedication of somebody who is kind enough to come on this forum and post it for us. He’s not doing it to hurt anybody, I can assure you. I know numerous people that truly enjoy Lee’s tidbits and facts that he’s been posting for a long time and I think there’s nothing wrong with trying to keep all the same people informed of something so serious.

Trust me, I’m not trying to dredge anything up on you. The whole point is we need to stand together, not against each other. When and if a lockdown comes, people will have a lot of time to sit and reflect on this and many more things. Just a wake up call. Some people will learn and some already know. Also there are some that just can’t face the reality of it all.

I’m not stirring the pot, in fact I’m actually trying to do the opposite. Hopefully you will realize we’re on the same team. If not, you totally missed the boat. I truly wish the best for you and your family as I do everyone. If this causes people to cause personal attacks on me, I can handle it. I’m prepared for a lot worse than that. In fact there’s way more important things for you and I both to be worried about. If I have at any point caused someone to make any kind of personal attack on you, I apologize and you can screen shot that too.

And seriously, just read Steve’s post. Much more important or serious than anything you or I have to say at this point. Prayers to you and your family Steve. Sorry for you having to go through all this with your family.

And who knows 70copo, we could very possibly be best friends one day. I truly am not trying to cause any trouble for you and I mean that from the bottom of my heart. You have your opinion and I have mine. Yours may not be right or wrong, and the same goes for me.

Fantastic. We are all good now. Back to regularly scheduled programming then.

At the rate this thread is going I may just participate by posting Memes.:beers:

:haha: I agree.