Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

Well said!!!
I think that said every thing needed to be said, so now hopefully we can get back to the learning and the real reason I cant stop looking at this site!!

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DW31S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys and gals, let's stop the mud slinging and childish rants and get back to the real reason we are united here..... it is so counterproductive to cast negative slurs to one another......this is supposed to be fun!!! </div></div>

Exactly.

Everyone just needs to take a step back here.

We need all the different sources of information, and objective looks at each source.

I greatly appreciate the input from retired workers. Likewise, the recollection of an owner AND the observation of MANY cars over the years is valuable; as is GM documentation. They are all pieces of the puzzle.

Clem can’t understand why notarized statements of events from 46 years ago doesn’t result in a “closed case”. Sadly, it doesn’t. Not because of Clem, Clem’s integrity, or any thing else having to do with someone’s honesty. Memories fade. I can’t tell you how many times I have thought something happened a certain way and was corrected by a brother, a high school friend, or whatever. I AM NOT SAYING CATEGORICALLY THAT CLEM IS WRONG.

I have seen notarized statements from owners and dealers that turned out to be absolutely false. I can’t think of ONE where I believed the person making the statement was intentionally lying. They simply made mistakes. So, we have become skeptical of the notarized statements. Does that mean all of them are useless? Not at all. They are a piece of the puzzle.

Lastly, check the ego at the door. It gets in the way. We all have something to learn. When the obvious point of a post is to prove you are right, or how much you know, you aren’t likely going to be contributing in any meaningful way.

I spend more time on this site than any other car site. Why? Because I learn from some of the best. Because NORMALLY, we can agree to disagree, or at least disagree civilly. </div></div>


Lynn,

At the risk of portraying you as someone who is trying to have it both ways, I am a bit confused.

At what point is enough eyewitness testimony enough? Just wondering since the biggest hurdle these days seems to be in reaching technical agreement on a revision to a topic when another group has a hard and fast position already established.

In this case it seems no amount of first hand evidence will convince everyone... Which then logically follows: Is there a better way to communicate new information and discoveries to the hobby in general?

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

a lesson to be learned here is run the VIN thru goggle when you are looking to buy a car. if brad had done this first this whole episode would be moot as my post of the VIN was there.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 70 copo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DW31S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys and gals, let's stop the mud slinging and childish rants and get back to the real reason we are united here..... it is so counterproductive to cast negative slurs to one another......this is supposed to be fun!!! </div></div>

Exactly.

Everyone just needs to take a step back here.

We need all the different sources of information, and objective looks at each source.

I greatly appreciate the input from retired workers. Likewise, the recollection of an owner AND the observation of MANY cars over the years is valuable; as is GM documentation. They are all pieces of the puzzle.

Clem can’t understand why notarized statements of events from 46 years ago doesn’t result in a “closed case”. Sadly, it doesn’t. Not because of Clem, Clem’s integrity, or any thing else having to do with someone’s honesty. Memories fade. I can’t tell you how many times I have thought something happened a certain way and was corrected by a brother, a high school friend, or whatever. I AM NOT SAYING CATEGORICALLY THAT CLEM IS WRONG.

I have seen notarized statements from owners and dealers that turned out to be absolutely false. I can’t think of ONE where I believed the person making the statement was intentionally lying. They simply made mistakes. So, we have become skeptical of the notarized statements. Does that mean all of them are useless? Not at all. They are a piece of the puzzle.

Lastly, check the ego at the door. It gets in the way. We all have something to learn. When the obvious point of a post is to prove you are right, or how much you know, you aren’t likely going to be contributing in any meaningful way.

I spend more time on this site than any other car site. Why? Because I learn from some of the best. Because NORMALLY, we can agree to disagree, or at least disagree civilly. </div></div>


Lynn,

At the risk of portraying you as someone who is trying to have it both ways, I am a bit confused.

At what point is enough eyewitness testimony enough? Just wondering since the biggest hurdle these days seems to be in reaching technical agreement on a revision to a topic when another group has a hard and fast position already established.

In this case it seems no amount of first hand evidence will convince everyone... Which then logically follows: Is there a better way to communicate new information and discoveries to the hobby in general? </div></div>it is the same on all these car website. if the truth goes against common beliefs you will have a battle on your hands if there is $$$ involved.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

Thank you for the original posting on the special order paint process as told by the workers. Awesome info that will soon be unavailable to the hobby.

I never would have guessed that with all my relatives baiting me on Facebook with opinions on trophy hunting, $15 minimum wage, and abortion that the most volatile subject in my social media would be a purple Camaro, lol [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cry.gif[/img]

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clem</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tenney</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">back in the day,1960s i drag raced alky burning Rupps.</div></div>

440? </div></div>440 nitro </div></div>

Nice!

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

Phil,

Do you know if there was there much difference in the way special paint cars were done in Van Nuys compared to Norwood?

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rick99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Phil,

Do you know if there was there much difference in the way special paint cars were done in Van Nuys compared to Norwood? </div></div>

Sorry no direct knowledge of LOS.

Anything I could offer would be speculation similar to 99% of the people posting here with opinions. I try to stick to things that I can conclusively verify with people who were on the lines or in the offices at Norwood.

I am only the messenger-who has the guts to buck the system with the truth.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

Phil:
I absolutely want it both ways. In fact, I want it (at least) five ways.
1. Fist hand accounts by Fisher and GM workers.
2. First hand accounts by original owners.
3. Facts as set out by unbiased researchers.
4. GM documentation on what was available or possible.
5. Contemporary photographs, such as car mags, owners pics from weddings, etc.

In addition, the CONCLUSIONS of experts who have researched thousands of cars are helpful. Doesn't mean they are always right.

I want all the evidence. No one source is infallible. I can remember in great detail the first time I saw a girl naked. But, ask me what day it was. I don't have a clue. Ask me what she was wearing 20 min. before. No idea. Now, suppose that girlfriend kept a diary, and had a dated entry of the event. Now we have another piece of the puzzle. Suppose also, that the date happened to be her brother's birthday, and there were family photos from the birthday. Now we have a third piece.

James admitted that what he had always thought was chipped in stone, was not. The revelation from the workers on the paint process for special paint cars changed his mind.

I have no idea what you mean by the following question: &quot;Is there a better way to communicate new information and discoveries to the hobby in general?&quot; Just present it. If someone doesn't want to believe it, it wouldn't matter if Moses brought it down from the mountain etched in stone. That is their problem, not yours and mine.

Just to be clear; the very first pic I saw a couple years ago of the paint under the door panel on Clem's car, I thought to myself (before I even read the thread) &quot;Wow, that car was Evening Orchid from the factory.&quot; Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Do I care if someone else disagrees with me? Not one bit.

I appreciate what you have done for this hobby. On the other hand, I appreciate what others have done coming from a different perspective. Doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong. MOST OF THE TIME, it is simply two ways of arriving at the same conclusions. For those times when they don't reach the same conclusions, I want as many facts as possible.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

Info: no opinion. When I went to body paint tech school in 1971 we were told that GM used 4 paint jobbers Dupont Acme, R&amp;M, and Ditzler. All laquer. All the same, but slightly different. So sometimes you had factory variences. Also that made panel painting difficult without blending into the next panel.

The lighter colors like EO or Cortez silver deteriorated quickly due to UV rays. Color fade, bleaching out, cracking was very common for any of those shades especially if they spent time in direct sunlight.

It's an interesting car. The tech side discussion has been interesting.

Having worked in a factory during that time we're probably lucky the cars looked as good as they did. Lotta those guys &quot;smoked&quot; lunch.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Phil:
I absolutely want it both ways. In fact, I want it (at least) five ways.
1. Fist hand accounts by Fisher and GM workers.
2. First hand accounts by original owners.
3. Facts as set out by unbiased researchers.
4. GM documentation on what was available or possible.
5. Contemporary photographs, such as car mags, owners pics from weddings, etc.

In addition, the CONCLUSIONS of experts who have researched thousands of cars are helpful. Doesn't mean they are always right.

I want all the evidence. No one source is infallible. I can remember in great detail the first time I saw a girl naked. But, ask me what day it was. I don't have a clue. Ask me what she was wearing 20 min. before. No idea. Now, suppose that girlfriend kept a diary, and had a dated entry of the event. Now we have another piece of the puzzle. Suppose also, that the date happened to be her brother's birthday, and there were family photos from the birthday. Now we have a third piece.

James admitted that what he had always thought was chipped in stone, was not. The revelation from the workers on the paint process for special paint cars changed his mind.

I have no idea what you mean by the following question: &quot;Is there a better way to communicate new information and discoveries to the hobby in general?&quot; Just present it. If someone doesn't want to believe it, it wouldn't matter if Moses brought it down from the mountain etched in stone. That is their problem, not yours and mine.

Just to be clear; the very first pic I saw a couple years ago of the paint under the door panel on Clem's car, I thought to myself (before I even read the thread) &quot;Wow, that car was Evening Orchid from the factory.&quot; Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Do I care if someone else disagrees with me? Not one bit.

I appreciate what you have done for this hobby. On the other hand, I appreciate what others have done coming from a different perspective. Doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong. MOST OF THE TIME, it is simply two ways of arriving at the same conclusions. For those times when they don't reach the same conclusions, I want as many facts as possible. </div></div>



<span style="font-weight: bold">Great.. Now I know where you stand, so please indulge me in a simple and respectful examination of where we agree:
</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">You say:</span>

&quot;I absolutely want it both ways&quot;. <span style="font-weight: bold">Gotcha... and your original quote bears that out. You are not willing to throw the establishment under the bus nor are you willing to throw Clem under the bus. I get that.</span>


&quot;In fact, I want it (at least) five ways&quot;.

1. &quot;Fist hand accounts by Fisher and GM workers&quot;. <span style="font-weight: bold">I agree we have that from one plant (possibly more in the future)</span>

2. &quot;First hand accounts by original owners&quot;. <span style="font-weight: bold">We have that from Clem and His wife.</span>

3. &quot;Facts as set out by unbiased researchers&quot;. <span style="font-weight: bold"> Comment... One persons unbiased researcher is another Man's &quot;Partisan researcher&quot;</span>

4. &quot;GM documentation on what was available or possible&quot;. <span style="font-weight: bold">We have that to an extent.. and I have quite a bit of that from research on the plant.</span>

5. &quot;Contemporary photographs, such as car mags, owners pics from weddings, etc&quot;. <span style="font-weight: bold">Comment... potentially useful however old photos have limitations when you are looking at color (for instance) and the disagreement within the locked thread bears this out clearly.</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">You say:</span>

&quot;I appreciate what you have done for this hobby. On the other hand, I appreciate what others have done coming from a different perspective. Doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong. MOST OF THE TIME, it is simply two ways of arriving at the same conclusions. For those times when they don't reach the same conclusions, I want as many facts as possible&quot;.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I agree, however if we are talking about factory issues and special paint (which is and was the focal point of Clem's old car) then that is a narrow knowledge path where the workers are the subject matter experts. </span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Lynn, For better or worse I am the voice of the organized Norwood worker group. They have discovered the intense interest that exists within the hobby through the writing of the book. Also know this....If you think Clem is abrasive in the critique of what goes on in these forums you should hear what several of the Norwood guys really think of the knowledge base that posts here. They look with amazement on the &quot;certainty&quot; the group has in drawing conclusions about the most trivial detail of the assembly process process mostly from individual cars 45 years on now, and trust me Clem is charitable by comparison with what he thinks. </span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">The workers have recently tried to reach out through the book and through me. My outreach to the hardcore segment of the hobby is mostly a failure and since I never worked at Norwood a day in my life-- I admittedly have zero direct Knowledge of what happened on the lines. </span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">What I continue to do is assist the workers by providing a voice to their work experiences as a liaison to the collector car hobby. In reply to your question about the hobby and communication well that is pretty obvious. The fact is that most every thread I am involved in eventually goes partisan where the hobby expert class has existing positions that sometimes are at great odds with the reality of the consistent recall of the workers who were there. </span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Make no mistake the message is not my mine, it is the workers and they feel quite rejected. Rejected to the point where meetings were extended to the persons that could benefit the most from the interaction. All declined.</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">So in the face of forum bans, locked threads, declined invitations to meet and threads that consistently go negative with an impossible burden of proof, how would you suggest that the information from the workers be released to the hobby?</span>

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Schonyenko2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Info: no opinion. When I went to body paint tech school in 1971 we were told that GM used 4 paint jobbers Dupont Acme, R&amp;M, and Ditzler. All laquer. All the same, but slightly different. So sometimes you had factory variences. Also that made panel painting difficult without blending into the next panel.

The lighter colors like EO or Cortez silver deteriorated quickly due to UV rays. Color fade, bleaching out, cracking was very common for any of those shades especially if they spent time in direct sunlight.

It's an interesting car. The tech side discussion has been interesting.

Having worked in a factory during that time we're probably lucky the cars looked as good as they did. Lotta those guys &quot;smoked&quot; lunch. </div></div>

Exactly.. You nailed it.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

This is where egos need to be checked at the door. Why does ANYONE need to get thrown under a bus?
You got me? I have no idea what that means. If it means that you win the pissing match, then fine, I gladly concede. I hope you mean something else.

I never said Clem was abrasive.

Tell you what, I am covered up through October, but should have some free time after that. Set up meetings with workers. Give me a time and place. If it is in the Continental US, and I don't have a prior commitment, I will be there. I will be glad to help spread the workers' messages.

I have some suggestions for you that are 100% constructive, but given the tone of this thread, they are not going to be perceived as such. Tried to reach out to you by PM, but your box is full.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is where egos need to be checked at the door. Why does ANYONE need to get thrown under a bus?
You got me? I have no idea what that means. If it means that you win the pissing match, then fine, I gladly concede. I hope you mean something else.

I never said Clem was abrasive.

Tell you what, I am covered up through October, but should have some free time after that. Set up meetings with workers. Give me a time and place. If it is in the Continental US, and I don't have a prior commitment, I will be there. I will be glad to help spread the workers' messages.

I have some suggestions for you that are 100% constructive, but given the tone of this thread, they are not going to be perceived as such. Tried to reach out to you by PM, but your box is full. </div></div>


On the Egos I could not agree more.

This year I did Norwood type events on both coasts and I have a big event coming in the November time frame. YOU ARE INVITED!

I cleaned out my PM box BTW..and I am looking forward to a constructive relationship. I will be in touch. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

Phil - I know that the Norwood assembly workers don't all have the skill and/or desire to write a book. That's where your presence has been invaluable. It would be really cool, however, if one or two of the most knowledgeable of those workers could participate directly in a forum like this. Can you encourage them to do that? I actually worked at St. Louis and Tonawanda during late 60's &amp; throughout the 70s, but I never worked at Norwood. It would be great for us to be able to ask the actual worker(s) questions in a forum like this. Many of the members here won't be traveling to the Norwood events. It would be a real service to our hobby if you could encourage them to check in with us once in a while.

I'm a geezer now, but at 28 years of age I was promoted to superintendent of production at Chevrolet. At 26 I was senior engineer in charge of troubleshooting quality &amp; special projects. So, I got to see and experience a lot the production processes. It would be great to be able to &quot;compare notes&quot; on this site with others who had production experience. Memories fade (I know that mine does!).

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Phil - I know that the Norwood assembly workers don't all have the skill and/or desire to write a book. That's where your presence has been invaluable. It would be really cool, however, if one or two of the most knowledgeable of those workers could participate directly in a forum like this. Can you encourage them to do that? I actually worked at St. Louis and Tonawanda during late 60's &amp; throughout the 70s, but I never worked at Norwood. It would be great for us to be able to ask the actual worker(s) questions in a forum like this. Many of the members here won't be traveling to the Norwood events. It would be a real service to our hobby if you could encourage them to check in with us once in a while.

I'm a geezer now, but at 28 years of age I was promoted to superintendent of production at Chevrolet. At 26 I was senior engineer in charge of troubleshooting quality &amp; special projects. So, I got to see and experience a lot the production processes. It would be great to be able to &quot;compare notes&quot; on this site with others who had production experience. Memories fade (I know that mine does!). </div></div>

I just had this discussion with them about this over the past few days. I was promptly reminded that I had written a book, and was working on a documentary and that is how we had jointly agreed to put a public face on the worker experiences.

I was cooked when both guys pointed out how the original owner was chastised for what they termed &quot;straight talk&quot; about his car. Bottom line was that they were clear the hobby issues on the internet were &quot;my job&quot; to communicate.

I cannot blame them [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] .

They prefer personal interaction face to face. That are what the events are for.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

what happened to me happen to a friend over on the NCRS board. when his rare corvette came to light in a national magazine one of the big wigs in the hobby ?? wanted to broker his car. when my friend refused this guy started to tell people that the car was not real. does this sound familiar ?

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a geezer now, but at 28 years of age I was promoted to superintendent of production at Chevrolet. At 26 I was senior engineer in charge of troubleshooting quality &amp; special projects. So, I got to see and experience a lot the production processes. It would be great to be able to &quot;compare notes&quot; on this site with others who had production experience. Memories fade (I know that mine does!). </div></div>

Amen to that! As a detail fanatic I strive to learn as much as I can every day and there are many things it would be nice to hear about.

As far as the Norwood guys go, I met several of them at MCACN last year and they are great guys with a huge willingness to talk about their experiences and gave me an open door.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

Phil, IMO - you're doing the wrong thing in sheltering these guys from sites like this one. Good for you - bad for the community. :-( Rick - did they give you contact info?

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

I find it interesting that a letter from Jack Douglass will make one of his COPOs become a Yenko, but a similar letter from Mr. Grabiek regarding the color of this Z-28 carries little, if any weight.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

I hate to chime in but I've watched this since joining. While some people need iron clad objective evidence others are free to invent provenance from scraps and this becomes gospel. Life aint fair, victors write history, etc., etc.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

scuncio has an L89 el camino for sale in the ad section with an affidavit from the original owner. Absolutely great price and truck , thinking of buying it myself ! . Thankfully the original owner isnt on this site making 60 posts a day on why hes not being believed

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rick - did they give you contact info? </div></div>

No I did not get that from them. I was fighting a MAJOR illness while talking to them and really needed to get to my room and it did not cross my mind. I would imagine Phil could put you in touch.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">scuncio has an L89 el camino for sale in the ad section with an affidavit from the original owner. Absolutely great price and truck , thinking of buying it myself ! . Thankfully the original owner isnt on this site making 60 posts a day on why hes not being believed </div></div>another jerry ass kisser heard from. I know you guys need jerry to bless your cars but you should not obvious about it that he has you by the gonads. anyone who put up a snide remark about mewill be counter till you throw me off the board

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Phil - I know that the Norwood assembly workers don't all have the skill and/or desire to write a book. That's where your presence has been invaluable. It would be really cool, however, if one or two of the most knowledgeable of those workers could participate directly in a forum like this. Can you encourage them to do that? I actually worked at St. Louis and Tonawanda during late 60's &amp; throughout the 70s, but I never worked at Norwood. It would be great for us to be able to ask the actual worker(s) questions in a forum like this. Many of the members here won't be traveling to the Norwood events. It would be a real service to our hobby if you could encourage them to check in with us once in a while.

I'm a geezer now, but at 28 years of age I was promoted to superintendent of production at Chevrolet. At 26 I was senior engineer in charge of troubleshooting quality &amp; special projects. So, I got to see and experience a lot the production processes. It would be great to be able to &quot;compare notes&quot; on this site with others who had production experience. Memories fade (I know that mine does!). </div></div>

Bergy - thank you for highlighting your experience.

I also co- op'd, but as a GMI student out of Chevrolet Flint Assembly. My first &quot;real&quot; job was as a production supervisor, Line 1 pickups, second shift and as of now I've been with GM for 37 years in assembly, product design/development, and engineering program management. I've launched product in every GM full size truck plant in North America (about a dozen - including St Louis) and one small car plant. I also shepherded about a dozen products from inception through to full volume production (the second generation Denali, Escalade, original H2 and first gen Chevy Volt/Opel Ampera, to name a few). I'm currently on a three year special assignment creating a low volume passenger car which I am not at liberty to talk about.

My dad also worked for GM for 32 years, in manufacturing (pressed metal) for Chevrolet, and as an advanced manufacturing engineer for CPC. He is the GM patentholder for several inventions, including the hydroform process which is in use on Corvettes and full size trucks, and used to make &quot;special&quot; parts for Duntov, Smokey and Penske. He also raced semi professionally for Pontiac Motor Division through Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac.

I am surprised our paths have not crossed previously, and I share your sentiments about keeping our memories intact...

K

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith Seymore</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> blah blah etc. through Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac.

etc...

K </div></div>

Oh! But I'm not a geezer; I started at a very young age!

(I started two weeks after graduating high school; 7th level at the age of 23 and 8th level at the age of 30).

[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clem</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the427king</div><div class="ubbcode-body">scuncio has an L89 el camino for sale in the ad section with an affidavit from the original owner. Absolutely great price and truck , thinking of buying it myself ! . Thankfully the original owner isnt on this site making 60 posts a day on why hes not being believed </div></div>another jerry ass kisser heard from. I know you guys need jerry to bless your cars but you should not obvious about it that he has you by the gonads. anyone who put up a snide remark about mewill be counter till you throw me off the board</div></div>

Clem, you've proven your point and collectively most of us appreciate your valuable input and passion. However there comes a point that your continued bashing of the inspector and members opinions is detrimental to this site and hobby. May I suggest you temper your remarks or you will wear out your welcome and be banned.

This thread has been very informative and that's what this site is all about. EVERYONE needs to keep focus on the technical aspects of the topic and stop the personal attacks.

It's about the hobby, sharing information, and our passion for knowledge.Let's focus on that.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

I have warned Clem twice but now he is getting a well deserved &quot;time out&quot; for a month.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

Hey Keith - I left GM in 1980, so you would have only been with GM a couple of years when I left. I did, however, drive the turbine car up from Warren to Flint V-8 to show the car off to the folks who helped us develop the anticipated production cost for the turbine engine. It was kind of a &quot;thank you&quot; visit. I was assigned to Chevrolet R&amp;D at the Tech Center at the time. It would have been about 1977, so maybe you were there.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Keith - I left GM in 1980, so you would have only been with GM a couple of years when I left. I did, however, drive the turbine car up from Warren to Flint V-8 to show the car off to the folks who helped us develop the anticipated production cost for the turbine engine. It was kind of a &quot;thank you&quot; visit. I was assigned to Chevrolet R&amp;D at the Tech Center at the time. It would have been about 1977, so maybe you were there. </div></div>

That's cool as heck! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif[/img]

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have warned Clem twice but now he is getting a well deserved &quot;time out&quot; for a month. </div></div>

Thank you Charley.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

&quot;That is cool as heck&quot; - Thanks Bruce!

Maybe now that this thread has calmed down, some of the GM alum could sign in with their memorable experiences at work back in the day. I'll start a new thread if anyone is interested.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;That is cool as heck&quot; - Thanks Bruce!

Maybe now that this thread has calmed down, some of the GM alum could sign in with their memorable experiences at work back in the day. I'll start a new thread if anyone is interested. </div></div>


Bruce, Please do! I worked in marketing at a local powersports group with a 'older' guy with a lot of marketing experience. I found out after working with him for a bit, that he went to GMI straight out of high school and eventually was in marketing at Buick when the GN's were launched. He worked for Chevy as well... He had some really fascinating stories, too!

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

I was doing some homework yesterday and came across this in my reading. It was in an article on selling used performance cars and how to be successful. Sam Grabiak outlined his dealers strategy and had a small mention on colors. I felt it was appropriate given the context of this discussion, but adds little weight only insight about what was going on &quot;color wise&quot; at Grabiak in late 1969-1970. The early 1970's were definitely different than today...This is the first and last paragraph of the article.

BIG

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-grabiak_1.jpg
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics...-grabiak_2.jpg

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

Interesting!

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

It sure is. It's hard to forget what we know and slip back in time. Things were different, when you have a frame of reference from then and actually read what was &quot;happening&quot; it almost seams laughable today. Hindsight ain't always 20/20..


BIG

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

That color statement definitely explains why there are so many 69-72 cars with some shade of green, gold, and brown on the trim tags (both paint and interior). It's sad to see so many get restored to the generic red-on-black, etc color combos.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

My favorite example would be the Olympic Gold '69 RS Z28 with deluxe green interior and a brown vinyl top, quite a combo.

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: novadude</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That color statement definitely explains why there are so many 69-72 cars with some shade of green, gold, and brown on the trim tags (both paint and interior). It's sad to see so many get restored to the generic red-on-black, etc color combos. </div></div>

I have production lists by color for many cars across different brands.

White and black were middle of the road at best - black especially was not really a performance color the way it is thought of in modern times.

Funny thing about golds is that Chrysler's 1970 roster, which had one &quot;regular&quot; gold, was not popular on performance cars, but for GM there were several shades, with all of them being popular (at least for Pontiac and Buick).

Re: 1969 Camaro Special Order Paint Process
 

I ran across a hugger orange Z with green interior. Shocking