Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Mr70,

Of the 3 L-89 70 Chevelles you mention, would you happen to have information concerning the possibility of them being produced early in the model run or not?

92646,

The 11:1 TRW piston worked just fine without modification in my motor. However, it seems a .040 head gasket was used as we weren't sure about how much compression we could run on pump gas with the alum. heads? As for the domes, I don't think it would have been an issue with a thinner head gasket?

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Yep because they started life as L-78's,they were early assembled cars too.August-Nov 1969.



....post photos please

Dan
Two owners are/were on TChevelle 9 years ago..One has posted pix publically of it's restoration.
The 2nd one won't,& the third doesn't care to get into a pissing match today.Say's he's keeping it anyway,so what does he care what others think.He's had it forever and will continue to do so.
All have sent me asorted buildsheets,P-O-P's,dealer shipper,engine stamping pix,whatever etc.After talking to them and seeing what each sent me,I fully believe these to be authentic and respect their privacy to the utmost.
These 3 cars are no secret to those who are enthusiastic about em,but there's just "more a$$holes then there are a$$es out there" as one of em put it.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

I just wanted to know about one, not 18 of them. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif O K I didn't know about them. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

The '71 LS-6 Corvettes are something I was also gonna bring up. I'm pretty sure Tonawanda just slapped the 118cc Open Chamber Aluminum heads onto a standard 11.00-1 closed chamber piston motor. This is gonna knock the compression ratio down to 9 or 10.00-1. I'm also pretty sure that the Crate LS-6 's that were produced for several decades as 10.2-1 Compression engines were done so by putting Cast Iron Open Chamber heads onto a closed-chamber piston short block.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
The '71 LS-6 Corvettes are something I was also gonna bring up. I'm pretty sure Tonawanda just slapped the 118cc Open Chamber Aluminum heads onto a standard 11.00-1 closed chamber piston motor.

[/ QUOTE ]
6262976

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

This has been a very interesting thread, I've read every post from the first to the last. First off let me say I have a great deal of respect for Brian Henderson for the quality of work that he and his crew does, and his second to none knowledge of Chevy Novas. Here's my question and what I'm having a problem with: Brian was standing right there when the engine in question was disassembled so he obviously knows both what heads were on the engine when it was disassembled, and what pistons were in the engine during dis-assembly. These two components are basically what will determine the cars authenticity. Brian, you can end this right now by stating what were the heads and date codes during dis assembly, and what pistons were present at the time this engine was disassembled.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Dave............Still waiting for an explanation on the 1970 Head/ Piston combination for the 074 heads on a 396 block..........GM Piston Part#'...... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...BruceRocks.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...HollyRocks.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...BruceRocks.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...elairSucks.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

After doing some research on the Piston/Head combo's.....Putting 074 heads on a L78 short block would yield approx 9.5 to 1 compression.....doesn't make any sense why the factory would do that in a High Performance application......there was also concerns about the posibility of the closed chamber piston dome hitting the 074 head in the exhaust valve area, even though the chamber was larger ..... Some hit....some didn't......so.....Why would GM put High Performance Aluminum Heads and lower the compression ratio by 1.5 points........Seems more likely that the heads were added at some time in the cars early life by someone who didnt know the difference.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif



Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Isn't that what they did with the 71 LS6 ?

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

No, the 1971 LS-6 had a special piston used only in that application. It had valve reliefs and a special dome. The 9:1 compression was not a problem due to the larger 454 ci.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

But the end result was about the same compression ratio. I'm just pointing out that GM could have done something like what we have here.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

But why would GM put 842's on a 70 Chevelle with the L89 option, yet use the 074 for a Nova???

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
But the end result was about the same compression ratio. I'm just pointing out that GM could have done something like what we have here.

[/ QUOTE ]

11.0 to 1 with 842's and 9.5 with the 074's....and a possibility of the Domes on the Stock L-78 Pistons hitting the Combustion Chamber in the Exhaust valve area....the Closed Chamber had a straight sidewall next to the exhaust valve which shrouded it......the open has a much larger chamber, but to unshroud the valve, they open up that area, but tapered it and that's where possible contact would occur.........I'll see if I can find that 3 page Wiki-article later and post it..........Bottom line......GM "Never" made a piston for a 396 or 402 block to work with the 074 head...........I think Dave didn't do enough research about the head situation before deciding they were Factory installed on this size engine.....the 074's were only used on larger displacement engines where GM made pistons for that application.....

Been down this road.....when I was building the Gold Nova into a L-89 clone....the first set of heads I bought were 074's because I didn't know any better.....The Engine builder then informed me about the compression issue and Piston un-availability.......Sold them and bought the 842's from a member here......Got an education...Again.....The Heads are the "Value" to this car as he states.....Yet.....Everthing seems to indicate that some just installed them at some time in the cars past....
Look .......Don't want to be a "Jerk" here.....But, Dave is presenting the car as "Factory"......Yet, for all the knowledge that is here about knowing the smallest detail about the correct color of brake line clips, etc...A pass is given to a Engine combination that was "Never" a RPO is Amazing to me...........It just go's to show the "Respect" that everyone has for Brian's opinion....but...If Dave provided the "Documentation" and Brian and Klutt accepted that as Gosphel.....Well??...
Again........It's up to Dave to do a "Verified" Documented History of the car to prove it's pedigree to a potential new owner......The Heads are the Problem.....I know that the car had Issues and doubts in Judging at a couple of shows......?????? Wonder Why??

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...BruceRocks.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...HollyRocks.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...BruceRocks.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
Brian, you can end this right now by stating what were the heads and date codes during dis assembly, and what pistons were present at the time this engine was disassembled.

[/ QUOTE ]

...inquiring minds want to know....

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

He ( the owner ) has already given the date codes for both heads.
1/12/70 and 1/16/70.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

I would like to know the casting # inside the piston?? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

It would be nice to know if he bought the heads he asked Chuck about. If he did, what were the casting dates?
James

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Brian, you can end this right now by stating what were the heads and date codes during dis assembly, and what pistons were present at the time this engine was disassembled.

[/ QUOTE ]




...inquiring minds want to know....

[/ QUOTE ]


The Dates are not the Issue as the 074's started production....I believe in late 68 for use on 427 L-88's and ZL1's.......So...It is possible for the dates to match

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

I spent about 7 years researching this already... with that said, I'd say the heads were installed somewhere along the way, the piston/head combo ain't friendly with stock GM head gaskets... I can't esplain the P-Plate though Lucy..

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
I spent about 7 years researching this already... with that said, I'd say the heads were installed somewhere along the way, the piston/head combo ain't friendly with stock GM head gaskets... I can't explain the P-Plate though Lucy..

[/ QUOTE ]Instead of looking at the heads which could have been changed early on perhaps in error under warranty the POP and the block stamp should be examined carefully.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I spent about 7 years researching this already... with that said, I'd say the heads were installed somewhere along the way, the piston/head combo ain't friendly with stock GM head gaskets... I can't explain the P-Plate though Lucy..

[/ QUOTE ]Instead of looking at the heads which could have been changed early on perhaps in error under warranty the POP and the block stamp should be examined carefully.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the Hemmings write-up:"On the mechanical side, Brian Henderson of Super Car Workshop, who had recommended Legendary when his own slate was full, examined the block's decks to see if the factory broach marks were intact; this was a means of determining if the code and VIN stampings were legit or recreations. Reportedly, despite initial skepticism, Henderson came away convinced that the engine was unmolested; because the CKT code is unique to an L89 Nova, this looks to be the only one known to exist.

After Henderson looked at the engine, Legendary had Active Engines in Mississauga, Ontario, go through the block again."

Looks like both "Active" and "Henderson" need to take a SECOND look !

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I spent about 7 years researching this already... with that said, I'd say the heads were installed somewhere along the way, the piston/head combo ain't friendly with stock GM head gaskets... I can't explain the P-Plate though Lucy..

[/ QUOTE ]Instead of looking at the heads which could have been changed early on perhaps in error under warranty the POP and the block stamp should be examined carefully.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the Hemmings write-up:"On the mechanical side, Brian Henderson of Super Car Workshop, who had recommended Legendary when his own slate was full, examined the block's decks to see if the factory broach marks were intact; this was a means of determining if the code and VIN stampings were legit or recreations. Reportedly, despite initial skepticism, Henderson came away convinced that the engine was unmolested; because the CKT code is unique to an L89 Nova, this looks to be the only one known to exist.

After Henderson looked at the engine, Legendary had Active Engines in Mississauga, Ontario, go through the block again."

Looks like both "Active" and "Henderson" need to take a SECOND look !

[/ QUOTE ]I don't believe the CKT code is unique to the L89 Nova,just unique to 70 L89 but what is unique to a 70 L89 nova is the CKT block with with the Willow Run W in the VIN code.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Did I miss the picture of the unpainted engine stamp? Isn't that 50% of the documentation on this car. m

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

From a Post over at Steves Nova Site......

Plus, I've seen original broached 854 blocks with no stampings, and they make paperwork. If the owner (s) had claimed the 842s had been replaced with 074s I might say OK. They really need to fine the original owner if possible before I'd suggest that it's real, and anybody lay out heavy money for it.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Boy, Tibor's profile is right....he really is a numbers guy https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]


11.0 to 1 with 842's and 9.5 with the 074's....and a possibility of the Domes on the Stock L-78 Pistons hitting the Combustion Chamber in the Exhaust valve area....the Closed Chamber had a straight sidewall next to the exhaust valve which shrouded it......the open has a much larger chamber, but to unshroud the valve, they open up that area, but tapered it and that's where possible contact would occur........

[/ QUOTE ]


Can't pull the wool over his eyes! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

I learned everything I know from Sammy........ https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...BruceRocks.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...HollyRocks.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ffSucksToo.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Well that took all of about 5 minutes! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Dave...............Any Piston info yet??

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

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Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Kenny just....

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/432967-thumbnail.jpg

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Super nice resto.Ant info on the pistons?Chris

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Brian's number on his website in the sponsor section and Dave's number is posted in this thread. Why not take these conversations private. Isn't this how perfectly good cars get horrible reputations?

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
Brian's number on his website in the sponsor section and Dave's number is posted in this thread. Why not take these conversations private. Isn't this how perfectly good cars get horrible reputations?

[/ QUOTE ]


The car is being Auctioned off as the 1 of 1 "Holy Grail" car........Is it too hard for Dave to answer 1 simple question??......... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...BruceRocks.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...HollyRocks.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...BruceRocks.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

"And" besides that......As far as I am concerned.....Brian is out of the picture....he explained his involvement in the car......Brian does not own or have any interest in the car.......Dave is the one that has to Shoulder the questions as he is the one who has a vested interest in the Sale.......

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...BruceRocks.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...HollyRocks.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...BruceRocks.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Ive been out of the country for a while...so I figured Id check out this thread to see if the piston issue has been resolved....

..with all due respect to Brian, I realize he does not have to respond to any questions here, but by not answering the question about the pistons, it sure leaves a lot of doubt about this car.....

...I have no interest in buying the car, but I think this site is all about preserving the supercars 'and their integrity', correct?...I for one really hope this car is real just because of all the people out there that initially trash a car without even knowing for sure....I have learned to never say never.....How many years I heard that GM never made a Z-28 vert.

and no, Im not gonna call Brian privately...I feel that we all should know...what's the big secret????

Well Brian???? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Brian's number on his website in the sponsor section and Dave's number is posted in this thread. Why not take these conversations private. Isn't this how perfectly good cars get horrible reputations?

[/ QUOTE ]


The car is being Auctioned off as the 1 of 1 "Holy Grail" car........Is it too hard for Dave to answer 1 simple question??......... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...BruceRocks.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...HollyRocks.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...BruceRocks.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


I am sure this will rock a lot of peoples's boat, but I am going to say it anyway.

How about taking the suggestion in the post above yours of MosportGreen66

Why is it that there is always a certain member segment on these forums that feel the need to find something wrong with every car for sale posted? I know, many will tell you that they feel it is their duty to inform any potential buyers of what they THINK might be wrong. Did a potential buyer ASK you for this info?

In all of the pages of this post the head question has not been conclusively determined as to what is correct for this car, and it may never be. But isn't the BLOCK stamped with a code indicating it was an aluminum head engine? If so, what is the big arguement here if the guy has BOTH sets of heads, one normally accepted as correct and the others he says were on the car and thought to be original factory install?

Just because we frequent these forums and some are quite knowledgable, doesn't give us the right to post speculation on a car we have no vested interest in. If it is curosity only then contact the seller and ask you question rather than speculating and asking others to do the same.

As far a I know, no one has been appointed the car police on the Internet so why do some seem to feel they are deputized?

Just as MosportGreen66 said, this is how cars get unjustified reputations that can be hard to overcome and can cost a seller a sale, and a buyer to lose out on a car that they would have bought if they didn't buy into stuff like this that later is proven to untrue.

The bottom line is, if you are not a buyer for the car then don't make a bunch of unfounded speculative statements when one is up for sale unless you can PROVE there is a direct statement of untruth about the subject car that SHOULD be brought to the attention of the www.

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Darrel..............Obviously.....You don't understand what's going on here with the Piston/Head combination.....We are just questioning the "Info" that Dave... the owner posted on this "Public" forum, and there are some questions that should be answered to "Validate" "His" claims to having the 1 of 1 L89 Nova ever produced......The question isn't that hard......Instead of Dave answering the simple question..........."Crickets".......I'm sorry if you feel that Dave's car is getting undue scrutiny and he is asked a couple of questions about items that are very Important to Validate the 1 and only L89 Nova in the World..... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Got to agree with iluv69s. If your a prospective buyer than the phone # is at your disposal. If not...

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

[ QUOTE ]
Got to agree with iluv69s. If your a prospective buyer than the phone # is at your disposal. If not...

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks for your opinion........But.....I think this is important enough for Historical reasons to the Nova world
to get some answers.....

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: One of ? L89 Nova for sale at Russo and Steele
 

Darrel, Dan, and any others who are unhappy with this thread....no one is twisting your arm to continue to read the comments here so bud out. Ken has some very valid points here and I for one think these questions need answering! If you claim to have a 1 of 1 car of any kind and are going to demand mega dollars for it, you better be ready, willing, and able to answer any and all questions asked and have the proof to back it up....and so far from what I've read our Mr. 1 of 1 L78 Nova has not!

You keep going Ken...I'm 100% with you!!!