Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
The CRG thread has been yanked https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Mike https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The elephant in the living room that you weren't talking about...... it's gone. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif

or maybe it's a big mistake and a different car https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

Sorry forgot !! Add those 5% to the 75% with their hands in there pockets !!

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
The CRG thread has been yanked https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif

Mike https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I missed the outcome....what happened before the thread was pulled?.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

I was told the fellow that started that thread asked that it be pulled.He mentioned something about legal action and he wanted it to go away. It sure went away fast. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

This sucks.....I followed the thread on CRG when it first came up until it was pulled and was feeling good about the facts that were coming forward as too much of this took place in the past.

According to the former owner of the Z-28 it was the same car he buried years before with out removing the tags and hidden vins. At the time he decided to bury the car, it had been banged up enough that is was too far gone to fix so he disposed of it but he kept the paperwork which he sold on EBay about 5 years ago.

Then this car comes up across the block and he is convinced that it was his former car or his paperwork was used to re-create his former car which was 6' under in the ground. A check of the vins do indicate that this indeed is the same as what he used to own.

Now however the car has been certified as an original z by a recognized expert on Z's. The former owner claims there is no way this can be the case as the car was too damaged when he decided to dispose of it.

Either the car is real or it is not. Too many high level players are involved to just sweep this under the rug. I was hoping we would get a definitive answer because if the car is indeed a re-body/clone/recreation/tribute or what ever, some people in the know got fooled and it if happened to them, it can happen to any of us.

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

Will CSI Camaro exhume the body? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/hmmm.gif
Who's goose will be cooked? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif
Stay tuned...

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

I thought the guy had said he did remove the Vin and Cowl tags also a section w/ one hidden Vin before burying the car?.
Then had sold these items along w/ the paper he had and key knock outs etc?.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
I thought the guy had said he did remove the Vin and Cowl tags also a section w/ one hidden Vin before burying the car?.
Then had sold these items along w/ the paper he had and key knock outs etc?.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

[/ QUOTE ]


That is what he said. There were pictures of all the docs, the VIN plate, the cut out sheet metal with the VIN and the Trim tag on the CRG site before the post was removed.

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I thought the guy had said he did remove the Vin and Cowl tags also a section w/ one hidden Vin before burying the car?.
Then had sold these items along w/ the paper he had and key knock outs etc?.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

[/ QUOTE ]


That is what he said. There were pictures of all the docs, the VIN plate, the cut out sheet metal with the VIN and the Trim tag on the CRG site before the post was removed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had asked the previous owner of the Z in question that very question in the thread on CRG and I thought he indicated that they were not removed and he had left them in tact on what was left of the car at the time he buried it. The last time I saw the thread was yestersday afternoon sometime around 4:00 PM before it was pulled so if he responded otherwise, I might of missed it.

Seems like it's not moving away on CRG......

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=4449.0

I would like to know what the outcome of this is and I really hope it's not swept under the rug.

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

I'm confused. What did the seller of the tags think the buyer was going to do with them? Was he making himself out to be an innocent party? On the plus side, I now know that CRG has a forum section https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif.


Jason

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

Thanks fellas,

- I hadn't seen the pics but thought that's what I'd read and wanted to clarify after reading SSJunkie's posting above stating the opposite..

Sad situation but certainly nothing new..
If legally pursued, this could be a great example for all to see those involved swing for their dirty deeds...

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif
~ Pete

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

All tags were removed, along with the hidden cowl VIN. Heater box VIN was not removed. The picture showed the removed parts along with the keys, an emblem, and all paperwork.

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

Pic is still up at TC:

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showpo...p;postcount=27

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

I realy hope we get final answers on the camaro, I realize there's reputations , pride,and possibly legal issues to dealt with, but this is really a huge problem for the hobby. The amount of homework required, and ability to look at a car, know what your looking for,Rebody's,Block Stamps,hidden vin's,.....and then throw in the ability to look at paperwork and determine what is forged,and what's real, you almost need an Art expert and carbon dating tools !! It really is a shame, because almost every car i look at I start from point of view that it's a clone / rebody / restamped car and work back from there ( Guilty until proven innocent).I know on Friday you could still see pics of the tags,paperwork the guy had sold on Ebay, but it's no longer available, or at least i can't seem to find it.

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pic is still up at TC:

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showpost.php?

p=1086590&postcount=27

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep...That's the pictures I am talking about. The VIN plate is under the Trim Tag. You can see it pretty good if you make the picture bigger.

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

The picture seems to be gone too.

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

this thread won't last long either
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=4432.45

neither will this one..
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...863&page=5


what a mess!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...thumbsdown.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif
the original thread that was down for editing now looks like a transcript of the watergate tapes!!!!

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

I would make an educated guess that someone reminded the alleged Gary guy that selling a VIN tag is a federal felony. Therefore his posts are (were) the only visible crime committed, complete with his admission, evidence of photos and old ebay auction information. That is probably why he isn't talking now and has had his posts deleted.

Oh, and yes, buying a VIN tag is also a federal felony, as is installing it on a body it didn't come on originally.

If you, as the new "owner" of the VIN tag have a shop install on another bodyshell for you, that adds another count of Conspiracy as well, and the shop people that install it are added to the indictment list.

The buyer is essentially an innocent victim if the car turns out to be a VIN-swapped rebody. The auction house has no liability based on their boilerplate contract with buyers/sellers. So the buyer would have to sue the seller in a civil action and try and get his $$$ back and he would have to bring in the alleged Gary guy to testify as to his selling of the VIN tag which would be difficult since he can claim his 5th ammendment right against self-incrimination.

Sounds fun doesn't it?

Now I know why I went to law school all those years ago...just so I could figure out what goes on at carshow/auctions. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

Great explanation Steve !!!

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

No problem.

To any considering going to law school, my explanation above is an example of how to answer a criminal law final exam question...a whole lot of issue spotting with no actual answer to the question asked. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

now for some fancy pageant walking.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...7435/plate.jpg

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

My money says they scared him to death, he's out lawyered, out monied and out of his league dealing with this element.

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...7435/plate.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]


DOH!

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i3...pson2Thumb.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

As we say in West Texas, "it looks like somebody's goose is fixing to get cooked".

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

More importantly the car is now essentially worthless regardless of any spin or lawyering put on it, and the guy that restored and sold it has his reputation in question as well.

If anyone really cares the vin was 124379N509335. The shell was allegedly sold thru ebay during October of 2007 by bowtieacres aout of PA. The paperwork and other components was sold back in 2003 or 2004.

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

Do you have the old ebay auction numbers?

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
No problem.

To any considering going to law school, my explanation above is an example of how to answer a criminal law final exam question...a whole lot of issue spotting with no actual answer to the question asked. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Sounds like some Politican's also..................LOL....Wait.......He was a Lawyer before becoming a Politician.........Double LOL........

Ken https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

I figured the posts would get deleted on CRG so I saved everything that was posted up til a little after 5 pm yesterday.
James

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

All the various sites, have edited, locked or othewise closed down the threads on this car. Thats about the worst thing that can happen since now the car is tainted with no explanation as to how it got to where it is now. I don't think that classicgary had anything to gain by making up a story about tags, vins and paperwork sold 4 or 5 years ago without a body. If his name is on the title as a previous owner then there is some serious issues here.

J. McNeisch's report said the car had a "restoration drive train" (along with other stuff) in it, and yet the buyer, who you would assume read the certification, still paid 125K for the car. Was Jerry's report altered? Something is going on that needs to be answered.

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

Here's a recently locked post.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...=1#post1087917

The gary guy put in a retraction of his previous posts and the administrators locked the main post...right after I replied with my "law school exam question" description of the whole mess. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smirk.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

OPPS https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

Thank god I just drive my car... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have the old ebay auction numbers?

[/ QUOTE ]

anything over 3 months is not able to be viewed

SOME older auctions can still be viewed BUT you need the item number

Here is a pic of the VIN tag I saved off the other thread:

http://static-digitalvault.cox.net/s...humbnail-0.png

http://static-digitalvault.cox.net/s...humbnail-0.jpg

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

As for Jerry's report I dont remember seeing it on display with the car I may be wrong though, one thing Ive learned is just because they say in a cars description it has been inspected by Jerry or Galen our what ever guru you want doesnt always mean it has a good report.

Im sure some sellers list that hoping that the buyer will assume the car is good because and expert has looked at it and then let the unexpecting buyer find it out later when its to late.

I think its buyer beware and you have to do your homework on cars but I remember watching this car cross the block and Gary Bennett PUMPED the hell out of the car to the crowd as if he really knew the car..

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

I will be curious to see if the footage of that sale is included in the endless reruns over the next 3 months.

Paul

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

I don't know why I am following this perhaps its like stopping to look at an auto accident on the side of the road?

Its my understanding the original shell absent the identity tags was sold and the identity tags with the paperwork was sold at another time??? Then we are presuming they were never reunited?????????

Anyway, NJSteve I think despite the boilerplate consignment K the buyer is a buyer in good faith and if his funds have not been disbursed BJ can and should withhold payment to the seller pending the cloud being removed from the title? In this case I think the cloud can be removed by removing a fender and checking for the hidden heaterbox VIN? That would be best answered by a Camaro expert? The way I read the K, BJ doesn't waive liability for selling a car with an illegally transferred VIN once they are put on notice. Absent notice I think they have no liability? In this case it appears BJ is on notice the car may have the VIN and identity of another car and I think if I was advising them I would advise them to withhold the funds and put the funds in escrow. I would also advise them to just go out and pull the fender while this is removal is being videotaped and look for the VIN. The NHP would also do it while the car is still here. If no VIN or wrong VIN I would tell the seller to pick up his car and give the buyer his money back. It doesn't matter whether the seller was a good faith seller in due course he is stuck with the car. I know BJ doesn't pay their sellers for at least a month so the funds should still be there. If the car has been shipped it needs to come back to Vegas and NHP can investigate its identity.
What do you think?

It also seems to me when the car was being restored someone during this process would have looked at the hidden VIN under the heaterbox? How would that not have happened? Just wondering?

Bottom line this why I can call all the original owners of my three Camaro's I own. Camaro world is a very scary place sometimes. I need to talk to live bodies before I will buy a Camaro.

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

Owner history is a good thing. Like you Les, I have plenty on both my cars. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you have the old ebay auction numbers?

[/ QUOTE ]

anything over 3 months is not able to be viewed

SOME older auctions can still be viewed BUT you need the item number

Here is a pic of the VIN tag I saved off the other thread:

http://static-digitalvault.cox.net/s...humbnail-0.png

http://static-digitalvault.cox.net/s...humbnail-0.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

wow look at that they yanked my pictures ...

email off board if you want to see them: [email protected] https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/shocked.gif

Re: Barrett Jackson Las Vegas
 

I think what causes this case to be different is that BJ may be on notice that an issue as to the cars identity exists? Or at least we are inferring that BJ knows about the problem based on the other internet forums threads? It doesn't matter now in my opinion whether classicGary is real or not it appears from this thread, paperwork with the cars VIN was sold on ebay as well as possibly the body shell which is sufficient to prompt an investigation into the cars identity I would think?

If it is true Ron Pratt bought the car if I was BJ I would be working toward resolving this since he is one of their best customers. ClassicGary and his assertions may or may not be accurate and could all be fictious but it appears the shell and paperwork were sold on ebay I would think the buyer would want this thing clearly resolved? And quickly.