Re: CHEVELLE LS6 BLACK 4SPD BENCHMARK
 

Bill,i agree with you on the website,benchmark is not a good choice of words. That was part of the sale of the car. I think the point of the wesite,when dean put that together,was to have a car that people can reference as a very original and correct car. Every number on that car was original. There are not alot of cars out there that can say that.

Re: CHEVELLE LS6 BLACK 4SPD BENCHMARK
 

Lets not forget The Former Bill Bonham LS-6 which I feel is a stronger car and also The former Cranberry Red (Ausley LS-6) another fine example. These cars always go FORGOTTEN.
Just my thoughts...."MOF"

Re: CHEVELLE LS6 BLACK 4SPD BENCHMARK
 

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..one of the reasons i would/could never buy a true survivor...I could never leave it alone... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

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I am with you 100% there....Give it to me... there will no longer be a debate as to whether it is restored or not https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: CHEVELLE LS6 BLACK 4SPD BENCHMARK
 

I think most would agree that the car is a very nice example of a LS6 and certainly is very correct. The car definitly shouldn't be considered the "benchmark" or anything like that, as there are much more original cars to bestow with that word. The problem I have is with the whole "Diamond Certification" process. To my understanding it is 2 guys (Chris White and Jeff Dotterrer (sp?)) that have the ultimate say so on what is correct and what isn't. How can 2 guys possibly know every little thing that was done on 4475(LS6's) mass produced vehicles (not to mention all of the other 1970 Chevelles that are eligible to be certified)?? I would certainly think that something along the line of the NCRS would be a much better structure for judging(multiples of people) Not to mention might be less prone to any "politcal manipulations.." (not saying there are, but with only 2 guys the "buddy" factor probably comes into it more..) They will "certify" your car only once, but they will also come out and inspect your car (for a fee) and give you a report of what isn't correct for you to fix for "certification." How does that work??? We will only "certify" it once, but we will fly out numerous times and tell you what to fix for your one certification?? Also of all the low mileage, original cars out there, why certify the black car first? I am under the impression that Dean paid a nice sum to be the first "unrestored" car to be diamond certified, maybe no one else thought having the "diamond certification" was worth the money/effort. The main problem with the Chevelles right now is that there isn't a national show or judging body (outside of 2 guys) for correctness/originality. As such the cost to have a car professionally restored correctly doesn't get recouped. Unlike the Thourghbred class, the NCRS, or the Mopar crowd the Chevelles don't generate the additional money post restoration when they are certified and sold. IMHO the whole "Diamond Certification" process is more of a way to keep certain people considered "gurus" and money flowing..(ie: you need this part and that part..BTW..I have those parts or I can restore this part to a "diamond" level..).

Re: CHEVELLE LS6 BLACK 4SPD BENCHMARK
 

I haven't dealt with Jeff much but I have dealt with Chris White. When I have a question about a LS6 or someone calls me wanting LS6 info or parts,I send them to Chris. He has the most knowledge that I know of. I would imagine they are the Diamond Judges because most Chevelle people feel they are the best qualified for the task. I also imagine it is a big volunteer effort on their part to do the judging. Most people don't want to judge as you spend the whole weekend working instead of enjoying all the cars. If you think you are qualified have you offered to be a judge ? I personally find your post very offensive.

Re: CHEVELLE LS6 BLACK 4SPD BENCHMARK
 

I never said that they weren't qualified to be judges or that they weren't knowledgeable, nor did I say I was or even imply that I was. If you would re-read the post you will find that it is my OPINION not some "fact of record." (guess it was hard to read and separate the two since it is only 7am in CA) If you have a problem with the post then look at the facts...How many cars have been certified as compared to the number of cars out there? Wouldn't more people want their cars certified and be going that route if it was worth it and the money gained on the backside justified the expense. Why haven't some of the notable Chevelles here been diamond certified? The post never said the 2 guys running it weren't qualified, it was merely my opinion on a judging process, and should be taken as such. Personally I find your post offensive and while I know you are one of the "old guard" here, I'm still entitled to an opinion the last time I checked.

Re: CHEVELLE LS6 BLACK 4SPD BENCHMARK
 

I will chime in with MY OPINION...

Fist of all, you have to realize that Jeff was one of or the head Judges for the now Defunct NCOA ( National Chevelle Owners Association ) one of it's original memebers, and an Extremely knowledgable perosn on all Chevelles! The NCOA in it's hey day was very well respected for it's judging of Chevelles done to the Nth degree. It was a time when there was actually an incentive to restore a car to that very level ( no longer )... you could finish a car and bring it to the NCOA Convention and get it judged on a 1000 point system, and it was a great system IMO. More than one judge looking at the car and they Knew what they were looking at. The Diamond Cert. program came from the NCOA days... why was this car one of the first or the first?... maybe as simple as the owner was the first to step up to the plate and ask/pay to have it certified.. Nobody chooses the car to certify... I know several guys that had their 66 and 67's Diamond Certified, most had this done some time ago when the NCOA was going strong! Had my current 66 been done at the time, I would have it done also... Do I believe Jeff knows more about what is right/correct about 66's than me?? Honestly No, I don't, but would let him inspect it and Certify it? Sure, (but not now) b/c that is the Only place/guy that does it... I don't know any group or judging panel that will always KNOW everything there is to know.. it's impossible to gather such a group of EXPERTS in one place to judge a car... be nice, just not practical. You have to play the hand you are given, and at this point Jeff and Chris are the Hand us Chevelle guys have. Personally, I won't have my car certified now that the NCOA is no longer.. just doesn't make sense to me.... My point is that we all have to realize, Nobody SELECTED any particular car for Diamond status.. the owner decides if He/She wants to have it done, wants to pay the fee... wants the Bragging Rights to say, " I scored 995" or whatever.. does it turn over to make the car worth more money at resale? To some it might.. we all put certain status/value on a certification... but right now, without a National Level Chevelle Organization that Judges Cars like NCOA did.. I see no benefit or Value in the cert., other than personal benefit. I tried to make my car as factory correct as I could, but most of it was for ME..

I don't think the Prior Inspection is for any other reason than trying to allow any possible mistakes to be fixed .... plain and simple.. I do the same with many many 66's that I know are being restored to factory original.. guys will ask me to look at a car or send pics of their Now Completed restoration and ask.. "what's wrong?, I want it right before I bring it to my first Show" I could just say, it looks fine, and not point out the mistakes I see, wait until they bring it to the Mid-Atlantci Chevelle Regional ( where it will at least get judged on a 300 point basis ) and then take all the points off when I judge... but why do that? Us true Hobbyist want everyone to make their car the best it can be.. I know I do.

This LS-6 is a fine example of TRUE MUSCLE, lets not get our panties in a bunch over terms used to describe it.

Sorry for the long wind.

Mike Crown

Re: CHEVELLE LS6 BLACK 4SPD BENCHMARK
 

Mike,

Very well stated. I can remember looking at the green LS6 in Harry Snow's (one of the big NCOA guys and the founder of the Monaco orange "twin" COPO's)garage and discussing the merits of the NCOA and the Diamond award. Back then it seemed like a logical process to buy a Chevelle and restore it to that level, not only for the stisfaction and ego trip, but for the monetary rewards if the car was sold. I can also remember going to a couple of the conventions and being truly impressed with the judging and the whole process. When Mark had the NCOA and people went to the conventions and got their car certified it wasn't just 1 or 2 people. I know that Chris and Jeff are decent guys and they both have answered questions for me and I think in the process I've probably assisted them with info as well. However I think one of the biggest problems now facing the Chevelle community is the lack of willingness to share info or to form a group for judging of originality. I know whenever talk about a LS6 registry and for the sharing of LS6 knowledge comes up, Jeff and Chris are asked to partipate and while they sound encouraging nothing comes of it. I would have thought that Rick Nelson would have received more response than I (especially as I'm not involved and he isn't nearly as blunt and candid as I am..:) but still no luck.

I feel that the whole "Diamond certification," would have more validity if more were involved and there was a national orgainization to back it up. Again just my opinion. If others feel the same way maybe we can discuss the idea of trying to start something (again NOT saying I'm knowledgeable enough to judge,or more knowledgeable than anyone as I know some will likely "read" into that statement. I am just good with logistics and orgainization)

Re: CHEVELLE LS6 BLACK 4SPD BENCHMARK
 

I have had many dealings with both individuals (Jeff & Chris)and have the utmost respect for their knowledge, integrity and contributions they make to the Chevelle hobby. I believe judging is the motivation behind hobbiest striving to make their cars better, as well as restoration shops higher standards.

Judging is not for everyone, but it also has pushed the parts reproduction business to higher standards. This ultimately means better quality parts (fit and finish)for all our cars, judged or not.

Re: CHEVELLE LS6 BLACK 4SPD BENCHMARK
 

Hey Greg...you have an opinion like everyone eles...but this doesn't sound like an opinion...it sounds like you are saying these guys are in it for some kind of monetary gain....thats an insinuation that we really don't need around here. You are basically calling them crooks or cheaters..and it sounds kind of lame...


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the whole "Diamond Certification" process is more of a way to keep certain people considered "gurus" and money flowing..(ie: you need this part and that part..BTW..I have those parts or I can restore this part to a "diamond" level..).


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