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Re: 72 TA : New Project
Full part # is UR4GP 2869 G Power.
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Re: 72 TA : New Project
(edit* you posted your above reply while I was typing this one, hence some redundancy)
The 2869 is also numbered as a UR4GP. A Platinum that's one step colder would be a UR5GP. A "standard" NGK that's 1 step colder would be a UR5. (Personally, I've never had any luck with platinum plugs in anything other than late model EFI stuff) Loosely translated, the 2869's appear to be the equivalent of a R45TS and the UR5's would be the equivalent of an R44TS. I would expect the engine to be done by 5K if it's in stock form. All of the "stock" Pontiacs I've ever worked with liked to be shifted <5K for best performance. I also recall that most of them liked a total timing figure of 30°-32° as well. (FWIW, I'm referencing some of these figures from a friend's `76 TA with a `69 RAIII 400 in it that's dipped into the high 12's in factory trim on more than one occasion) Phil did your carb, didn't he? If so, I believe he normally richens them up just a tad, so the carb should be good to go. You might try richening up the trim screws maybe 1/8 turn and see if that makes any difference on the plugs. Eric |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Yes, got the carb from Phil at Custom Rebuilt Carburetors in Middlesex, NJ about 6 years ago.
I set the idle mixture to the highest vacuum reading i could get which was something crazy like 23 inches. Probably running a bit lean then. I will richen it up and maybe back off the timing a degree or two. As for the rpm range it's kind of hard to be accurate since the factory tachs are slow and rather inaccurate. So the nosing over could be earlier in the power range. I will tinker with it this weekend and report back. |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Steve, my former WW5 HO car would nose over around 4,500...I ended up changing the metering rods and adjusting the secondary air valve. Problem solved.
To start, make sure you have the correct metering rods, hanger and cam. I would start with 3/4 to 1 full turn on the air valve and go from there. I'll see if I can find which rods I used... Mike |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
What you describe is exactly it. It seems to run out of gas at that rpm. The secondaries open very smoothly and without any bog or hesitation so hopefully it's a metering rod thing. I don't have much experience in tuning quadrajets. Any recommended websites for info (or local NJ people in the area).
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Re: 72 TA : New Project
Some info here: http://www.florida4x4.com/tech/quadrajet/ Download the Q-Jet tuning paper...the writer is a little over the top but you'll get the idea.
Checking/adjusting the air valve is pretty simple. I would tighten the spring by a 1/4-1/2 turn and see what kind of change you see/feel. This alone may fix the problem. |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Drove her over to my buddy's garage this morning and got some underside shots, since all I have to this date are the ones taken from a creeper 6" underneath the car when it was on jack stands.
http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005793.jpg http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005795.jpg http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005796.jpg http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005797.jpg http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005798.jpg http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005799.jpg |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Swell underside Steve. Very nice!! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]
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Re: 72 TA : New Project
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mockingbird812</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Swell underside Steve. Very nice!! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] </div></div>
yeah, I can hardly see any AC comp fluid [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img] |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68 Vert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve, my former WW5 HO car would nose over around 4,500...I ended up changing the metering rods and adjusting the secondary air valve. Problem solved.
To start, make sure you have the correct metering rods, hanger and cam. I would start with 3/4 to 1 full turn on the air valve and go from there. I'll see if I can find which rods I used... Mike </div></div> I checked and the metering rods are the stock CR rods. Just out of curiosity, what would the recommended change be from there? |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
I see what you mean about that article! I never realized Quadrajets were that complex. I'll see what the secondary air valve spring is set at and go slowly from there.
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Re: 72 TA : New Project
On the advice of Phil at Custom Rebuilt Carburetors, here in New Joysey, who I bought the 7042273 Quadrajet from in 2005, I unbolted it and brought it by his shop where he freshened it up. He ended up putting in a pair of BE secondary metering rods, replacing the leaner stock CR rods and rechecking everything on the flow bench.
No flat spot anymore. A noticeably more linear power band. Runs scary fast now - keeps pulling all the way up the rpm range. Thankfully I have forged connecting rods now. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif[/img] Here's Phil's website. Lots of neat stuff vintage stuff there. He has a lot of rare carbs in case anyone is looking for something weird and original. http://customrebuiltcarbs.com/ |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Nice, how much did he charge? My carb I bought from him a long time ago is running a tad rich on the primaries. Have not had the guts to open up the secondaries yet, it is plenty quick without the 2nds [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]
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Re: 72 TA : New Project
He didn't charge me anything. He said there wasn't much that needed to be done that wasn't done originally, it just needed "fattening up" from the stock specs, a new gasket or two, and rechecking on the flowbench. To me that's still a lot of work and I would have been happy to pay for whatever he would have charged for his time and experience.
That's one of the reasons I will be bringing my future work to him and am happy to spread the word. Another reason is that he is a local business here in Jersey. Not many of those still around these days. There are so many bad experiences in the restoration world, it's refreshing when you get to spread some good news once in a while. (P.S. I don't mean to divert any business from our esteemed resident carb-meister, Eric at VintageMusclecar, since Eric doesn't do Quadrajets any more) |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Glad it worked out...it seems that recently, all of the Qjet cars that I've owned or worked on needed to be "fattened up".
IMO it might be the "Less than 10% Ethanol" swill that they call gas here in Fl. Great stuff. |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Good point on the ethanol angle. That's why I use the major gas brands like Shell that are still gasoline and not a mixture with ethanol.
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Re: 72 TA : New Project
Steve;
No need for apologies, Phil's a friend of mine and I often refer QJet work to him, but FWIW I am doing them again myself, just on a somewhat limited basis (details on my website in the FAQ section) It's all good, glad Phil got the carb dialed in. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] Eric |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Today's lesson is the principle of Occam's Razor or in Latin, Lex Parsimoniae, which translates to "the simplest explanation is usually the correct one".
I have been chasing down a tachometer gremlin for a while trying to figure out why the tach would not rev beyond 4000 rpm even when the engine was obviously going faster that that. Also, when the engine was cold, the tach would read double it's actual engine reading. Well, after fiddling around, running extra tach leads to other tachs to compare readings, checking the distributor leads, checking point dwell... I was about to pull the coil and change that. Guess what...the coil wire was not fully seated into the top of the coil and all this time, the voltage was just jumping across which, while powering the ignition system, was wreaking havoc with the tach accuracy. So I pulled the coil wire, cleaned the terminal ends, pulled the boots way up and made darn sure both terminals were locked into the coil and the distributor. And now the tach reads correctly. So let that be a lesson to everyone - check the simple, stupid stuff first. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/scholar.gif[/img] http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005855.jpg |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Steve..couldnt help it but I went right to Wikipedia to understand what the heck you were talking about. So I am going to pick myself up from the couch and put to use Occam's Razor and find why my MSD box works one day and not the next!!! Keep bringing us the stories Steve.
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Re: 72 TA : New Project
Looks like we're getting some free press:
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...to/?refer=news [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Now that's cool!!!!!! Nice going Steve.
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Re: 72 TA : New Project
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like we're getting some free press:
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...to/?refer=news [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img] </div></div> As it SHOULD be. You should write a book Steve [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img] |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Well, since no project is ever really finished...
The tilt column that came in the car when I bought it, (it was a non-tilt car originally) has been making noises like a bell ringing whenever I'd take the car out for a drive (I have about 700 miles on it now). So I went on the hunt for a non-tilt column and actually found one on ebay. It was listed as a Camaro column but they are the same from 70 to around 76. The 70-76 columns have a splined end while the 77-81 columns have a D-shaped end that interlocks with a similar intermediate shaft. http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005910.jpg http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005909.jpg I disassembled the column and soaked the steel end in the safestrustremover liquid along with my trusty aquarium heater and pool sump pump and let it circulate or a few hours. http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005939.jpg |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
I would imagine I am not the only husband out there who's wife always complains about my inability to throw anything away. My standard response is "I may use that some day."
Well. I finally got to "that day!" The wife came downstairs over the weekend and laughed hysterically when she saw the old wooden flag pole that I refused to throw out ten years ago. Guess what? It fit the column perfectly as a rotating spindle for paint purposes. http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005944.jpg |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Here's something I just learned: the columns are dated coded. According to the seller, this column was from a 72 Camaro. The date code confirms that: 10th month of 1971. Pretty lucky score for my December built car.
http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005946.jpg |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
After spending a few days cleaning and reassembling the new column, I installed it. Of course I learned that the standard columns are clocked differently than the tilt ones. The splines have the intermediate shaft alignment notch at the 3 o'clock position, while the tilt column had it at the 6 o'clock position. So the wheel was 90 degrees off when the tires were straight ahead.
http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005952.jpg |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Using my kids' sidewalk chalk and an unused book shelf, I traced the exact position of both front tires.
http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005956.jpg From these two lines I was able to establish the toe setting with a tape measure. Sure beats trying to get the exact same spot on the tire treads. http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005959.jpg Took a few tries keeping the book shelf steady while tracing with the chalk, but in the end it looked like 1/4" toe in. |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
I then raised the car and loosened the tie rod ends and turned both tie rods an equal amount to get the front wheels to match each other as well as the steering wheel when it was in the correct position.
It took several test drives and subsequent chalk tracings and readjustments, to get the wheel exactly straight but in the end I got the toe-in to 1/8" (the factory spec is 3/16" + or - 1/16"). http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...b/S7005961.jpg By the way, I did partially disassemble the old tilt column to get the original turn signal switch out in order to use it in the new column as it had the correct color-coded wires in it that matched the dash wiring harness. During the disassembly I found that the upper bearing had come apart in the tilt column, hence the ringing sound of the races rattling against the housing. |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
I don't understand the chalk marks. The car was already aligned right? Why not drive it until you know the wheels are straight, pull the wheel, then reinstall it straight? Looking great Steve!
Jason |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
you can't "pull the wheel" because it is keyed on the spline.
To center the steering wheel you adjust the tie rods ... if the steering wheel is to the right, then you adjust BOTH tie rods ends to the right so the wheel effectively is centered ... the 2nd gen f bodies like nearly zero toe in, the closer to 1/16 the better ... |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Hmmmm, interesting. I didn't realize that.
Jason |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Steve,
If its not already spoken for...I would like to buy the tilt from you.. let me know please.. [email protected] |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
The tilt wheel that was in my 70 L78 Camaro also made some noise. And if I turned the outside collar to tighten it, you couldn't start the car! I'm guessing the same problem you encountered.
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Re: 72 TA : New Project
Update on that ringing sound that was allegedly from the column. Well, since the new non tilt column started making the same noise, I began the usual search and destroy mission to locate the source.
I unhooked the reverse light/ignition lock back drive linkage...no improvement, then removed the entire backdrive bell crank assembly...no improvement, retightened everything under the dash...no improvement..finally took it for the 10th test drive loop of the day and noticed that the ringing disappeared when I touched then clutch pedal. AHA! I have you now! Hung upside down under the dash and noticed that the clutch rod had a washer behind the cotter pin that was just dangling there. Removed it and greased the moving parts. Took her for another test drive...noise still there but slightly less. Came in at around 3000 rpm. Touched the clutch pedal and it went away again. Pulled her back in the garage and checked the other end of the clutch rod. Yup, another really loose washer behind the cotter pin. Of course this was rather impossible to get to but after loosening up the steel brake line bracketry I was able to access it. Removed that washer and hooked the clutch rod back up. Took her for another ride...noise still there but reduced. Went away, again, when slack in clutch pedal was removed. Finally, I noticed that the clutch rod still jiggled when mounted up. While there is a hard rubber bushing in the pedal bracket under the dash, the bell crank end in the engine compartment however, is metal to metal. The final fix was to use a thick washer and a Hurst shifter linkage clip instead of a hair pin style clip. The shifter clip applies pressure to take up any slack in the rod. That finally worked... So it turned out that the tilt steering column wasn't bad, it was just acting like a megaphone, transfering the location of the noise up into the column instead of under the dash. DAMN GREMLINS!!! Now, to find a new cast iron proportioning/combination valve since I discovered that the original is seeping from the internal o-ring, under pressure. Thankfully, I used silicone fluid so no paint damage. At least I already have the brake lines moved after playing chase the ringing clutch noise, all day. |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Holy cow! So now the tilt goes back in???
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Re: 72 TA : New Project
Nah, The car had a non-tilt originally so I'll keep the straight column where it is.
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Re: 72 TA : New Project
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve,
If its not already spoken for...I would like to buy the tilt from you.. let me know please.. [email protected] </div></div> Bert, I sent you an email. |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Steve...I have a weird noise in the plumbing at my house....are you busy this afternoon? [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif[/img]
Just kidding....it's cool to read about your problems/solutions! You are aptly named Mc Gyver! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif[/img] |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
Jiggle the handle. It works for a variety of maladies.
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img] |
Re: 72 TA : New Project
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jiggle the handle. It works for a variety of maladies.
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img] </div></div> [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif[/img] LOL |
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